Investing in Non Performing Loans (NPNs)

[Jumby]

Yep, I was waiting here, with everything on hold until I heard YOUR take on real estate investing….

Thanks for admitting (more or less) that you don’t believe in it (at least residential).

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Jumby]Yep, I was waiting here, with everything on hold until I heard YOUR take on real estate investing….

Thanks for admitting (more or less) that you don’t believe in it (at least residential).[/quote]

Jumby: Okay, I showed you mine; you show me yours.

Give me some support as to why you consider residential RE an investment. Show some history (I’d personally use Robert Shiller’s research on home prices going back to the late 1800s to support my assertion) that proves residential RE can outperform, say, a tax-deferred or tax-neutral instrument or vehicle (to compensate for the tax benefit/write off inherent to a residential home purchase) over a multi-year (no less than five years) period.

You talk about the hundreds of deals passing your desk regularly and the investment sites you own, let’s see your math.

Its easy enough to gainsay someone and argue that I’m a non-believer, but its harder to disprove my contentions.

Or, as with Socrattt, are you simply going to aver and strike your colors? I notice Clearfund has clearly found something else to do. Crickets from him on this one. Another so-called “expert” goes to ground.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Jumby]Yep, I was waiting here, with everything on hold until I heard YOUR take on real estate investing….

Thanks for admitting (more or less) that you don’t believe in it (at least residential).[/quote]

Jumby: Okay, I showed you mine; you show me yours.

Give me some support as to why you consider residential RE an investment. Show some history (I’d personally use Robert Shiller’s research on home prices going back to the late 1800s to support my assertion) that proves residential RE can outperform, say, a tax-deferred or tax-neutral instrument or vehicle (to compensate for the tax benefit/write off inherent to a residential home purchase) over a multi-year (no less than five years) period.

You talk about the hundreds of deals passing your desk regularly and the investment sites you own, let’s see your math.

Its easy enough to gainsay someone and argue that I’m a non-believer, but its harder to disprove my contentions.

Or, as with Socrattt, are you simply going to aver and strike your colors? I notice Clearfund has clearly found something else to do. Crickets from him on this one. Another so-called “expert” goes to ground.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Jumby]Yep, I was waiting here, with everything on hold until I heard YOUR take on real estate investing….

Thanks for admitting (more or less) that you don’t believe in it (at least residential).[/quote]

Jumby: Okay, I showed you mine; you show me yours.

Give me some support as to why you consider residential RE an investment. Show some history (I’d personally use Robert Shiller’s research on home prices going back to the late 1800s to support my assertion) that proves residential RE can outperform, say, a tax-deferred or tax-neutral instrument or vehicle (to compensate for the tax benefit/write off inherent to a residential home purchase) over a multi-year (no less than five years) period.

You talk about the hundreds of deals passing your desk regularly and the investment sites you own, let’s see your math.

Its easy enough to gainsay someone and argue that I’m a non-believer, but its harder to disprove my contentions.

Or, as with Socrattt, are you simply going to aver and strike your colors? I notice Clearfund has clearly found something else to do. Crickets from him on this one. Another so-called “expert” goes to ground.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Jumby]Yep, I was waiting here, with everything on hold until I heard YOUR take on real estate investing….

Thanks for admitting (more or less) that you don’t believe in it (at least residential).[/quote]

Jumby: Okay, I showed you mine; you show me yours.

Give me some support as to why you consider residential RE an investment. Show some history (I’d personally use Robert Shiller’s research on home prices going back to the late 1800s to support my assertion) that proves residential RE can outperform, say, a tax-deferred or tax-neutral instrument or vehicle (to compensate for the tax benefit/write off inherent to a residential home purchase) over a multi-year (no less than five years) period.

You talk about the hundreds of deals passing your desk regularly and the investment sites you own, let’s see your math.

Its easy enough to gainsay someone and argue that I’m a non-believer, but its harder to disprove my contentions.

Or, as with Socrattt, are you simply going to aver and strike your colors? I notice Clearfund has clearly found something else to do. Crickets from him on this one. Another so-called “expert” goes to ground.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Jumby]Yep, I was waiting here, with everything on hold until I heard YOUR take on real estate investing….

Thanks for admitting (more or less) that you don’t believe in it (at least residential).[/quote]

Jumby: Okay, I showed you mine; you show me yours.

Give me some support as to why you consider residential RE an investment. Show some history (I’d personally use Robert Shiller’s research on home prices going back to the late 1800s to support my assertion) that proves residential RE can outperform, say, a tax-deferred or tax-neutral instrument or vehicle (to compensate for the tax benefit/write off inherent to a residential home purchase) over a multi-year (no less than five years) period.

You talk about the hundreds of deals passing your desk regularly and the investment sites you own, let’s see your math.

Its easy enough to gainsay someone and argue that I’m a non-believer, but its harder to disprove my contentions.

Or, as with Socrattt, are you simply going to aver and strike your colors? I notice Clearfund has clearly found something else to do. Crickets from him on this one. Another so-called “expert” goes to ground.

[Jumby]

I got a feeling that you want to debate the semantics of the word ‘investment’, which of course is up for everybody’s individual interpretation, so I’ll go ahead and share mine.

First off I’d like to point out that I don’t consider one’s personal home an investment. Your home is alot of things, your refuge, your escape, your piece of the American dream, your shelter, but it’s not an investment property. Investing in real estate isn’t the same as owning a house.

Alot of people around the country will end up spending more money living in their home than they will when they sell it. Dallas (where I currently reside) is a great example of this as I’m seeing homes sell for the same price as they were 10 years ago. After you factor in the fact that the dollar is worth less, property taxes, insurance, maintenance…alot of people will lose money if they sold now (after buying 10 years ago). This scenario obviously isn’t investing….

Investing is when you use money to make more money. To be considered an investment, real estate must generate actual profits, either immediately in the form of income or long term in the form of appreciation. In either case, the property must cover all it’s own costs and produce a reasonable return on the money you spent to buy it.

It would be foolish for anybody to argue against the Shiller data, but it’s equally as foolish not to consider the fact that real estate investors invest using leverage. So just using the Shiller data as the backbone of your case is flawed.

I of course don’t need to explain such simple concepts to an accountant….and since you are an accountant I’m not going to do the simple math that would prove what I just said…

[Jumby]

I got a feeling that you want to debate the semantics of the word ‘investment’, which of course is up for everybody’s individual interpretation, so I’ll go ahead and share mine.

First off I’d like to point out that I don’t consider one’s personal home an investment. Your home is alot of things, your refuge, your escape, your piece of the American dream, your shelter, but it’s not an investment property. Investing in real estate isn’t the same as owning a house.

Alot of people around the country will end up spending more money living in their home than they will when they sell it. Dallas (where I currently reside) is a great example of this as I’m seeing homes sell for the same price as they were 10 years ago. After you factor in the fact that the dollar is worth less, property taxes, insurance, maintenance…alot of people will lose money if they sold now (after buying 10 years ago). This scenario obviously isn’t investing….

Investing is when you use money to make more money. To be considered an investment, real estate must generate actual profits, either immediately in the form of income or long term in the form of appreciation. In either case, the property must cover all it’s own costs and produce a reasonable return on the money you spent to buy it.

It would be foolish for anybody to argue against the Shiller data, but it’s equally as foolish not to consider the fact that real estate investors invest using leverage. So just using the Shiller data as the backbone of your case is flawed.

I of course don’t need to explain such simple concepts to an accountant….and since you are an accountant I’m not going to do the simple math that would prove what I just said…

[Jumby]

I got a feeling that you want to debate the semantics of the word ‘investment’, which of course is up for everybody’s individual interpretation, so I’ll go ahead and share mine.

First off I’d like to point out that I don’t consider one’s personal home an investment. Your home is alot of things, your refuge, your escape, your piece of the American dream, your shelter, but it’s not an investment property. Investing in real estate isn’t the same as owning a house.

Alot of people around the country will end up spending more money living in their home than they will when they sell it. Dallas (where I currently reside) is a great example of this as I’m seeing homes sell for the same price as they were 10 years ago. After you factor in the fact that the dollar is worth less, property taxes, insurance, maintenance…alot of people will lose money if they sold now (after buying 10 years ago). This scenario obviously isn’t investing….

Investing is when you use money to make more money. To be considered an investment, real estate must generate actual profits, either immediately in the form of income or long term in the form of appreciation. In either case, the property must cover all it’s own costs and produce a reasonable return on the money you spent to buy it.

It would be foolish for anybody to argue against the Shiller data, but it’s equally as foolish not to consider the fact that real estate investors invest using leverage. So just using the Shiller data as the backbone of your case is flawed.

I of course don’t need to explain such simple concepts to an accountant….and since you are an accountant I’m not going to do the simple math that would prove what I just said…

[Jumby]

I got a feeling that you want to debate the semantics of the word ‘investment’, which of course is up for everybody’s individual interpretation, so I’ll go ahead and share mine.

First off I’d like to point out that I don’t consider one’s personal home an investment. Your home is alot of things, your refuge, your escape, your piece of the American dream, your shelter, but it’s not an investment property. Investing in real estate isn’t the same as owning a house.

Alot of people around the country will end up spending more money living in their home than they will when they sell it. Dallas (where I currently reside) is a great example of this as I’m seeing homes sell for the same price as they were 10 years ago. After you factor in the fact that the dollar is worth less, property taxes, insurance, maintenance…alot of people will lose money if they sold now (after buying 10 years ago). This scenario obviously isn’t investing….

Investing is when you use money to make more money. To be considered an investment, real estate must generate actual profits, either immediately in the form of income or long term in the form of appreciation. In either case, the property must cover all it’s own costs and produce a reasonable return on the money you spent to buy it.

It would be foolish for anybody to argue against the Shiller data, but it’s equally as foolish not to consider the fact that real estate investors invest using leverage. So just using the Shiller data as the backbone of your case is flawed.

I of course don’t need to explain such simple concepts to an accountant….and since you are an accountant I’m not going to do the simple math that would prove what I just said…

[Jumby]

I got a feeling that you want to debate the semantics of the word ‘investment’, which of course is up for everybody’s individual interpretation, so I’ll go ahead and share mine.

First off I’d like to point out that I don’t consider one’s personal home an investment. Your home is alot of things, your refuge, your escape, your piece of the American dream, your shelter, but it’s not an investment property. Investing in real estate isn’t the same as owning a house.

Alot of people around the country will end up spending more money living in their home than they will when they sell it. Dallas (where I currently reside) is a great example of this as I’m seeing homes sell for the same price as they were 10 years ago. After you factor in the fact that the dollar is worth less, property taxes, insurance, maintenance…alot of people will lose money if they sold now (after buying 10 years ago). This scenario obviously isn’t investing….

Investing is when you use money to make more money. To be considered an investment, real estate must generate actual profits, either immediately in the form of income or long term in the form of appreciation. In either case, the property must cover all it’s own costs and produce a reasonable return on the money you spent to buy it.

It would be foolish for anybody to argue against the Shiller data, but it’s equally as foolish not to consider the fact that real estate investors invest using leverage. So just using the Shiller data as the backbone of your case is flawed.

I of course don’t need to explain such simple concepts to an accountant….and since you are an accountant I’m not going to do the simple math that would prove what I just said…

[socrattt]

[quote=Jumby]I got a feeling that you want to debate the semantics of the word ‘investment’, which of course is up for everybody’s individual interpretation, so I’ll go ahead and share mine.

First off I’d like to point out that I don’t consider one’s personal home an investment. Your home is alot of things, your refuge, your escape, your piece of the American dream, your shelter, but it’s not an investment property. Investing in real estate isn’t the same as owning a house.

Alot of people around the country will end up spending more money living in their home than they will when they sell it. Dallas (where I currently reside) is a great example of this as I’m seeing homes sell for the same price as they were 10 years ago. After you factor in the fact that the dollar is worth less, property taxes, insurance, maintenance…alot of people will lose money if they sold now (after buying 10 years ago). This scenario obviously isn’t investing….

Investing is when you use money to make more money. To be considered an investment, real estate must generate actual profits, either immediately in the form of income or long term in the form of appreciation. In either case, the property must cover all it’s own costs and produce a reasonable return on the money you spent to buy it.

It would be foolish for anybody to argue against the Shiller data, but it’s equally as foolish not to consider the fact that real estate investors invest using leverage. So just using the Shiller data as the backbone of your case is flawed.

I of course don’t need to explain such simple concepts to an accountant….and since you are an accountant I’m not going to do the simple math that would prove what I just said…[/quote]

Jumby, not to be rude, but after reading this it looks as though you quoted Wikipedia on the term “investment.” I can’t imagine you would pass on sharing investment sites with all of us. I would assume you utilize those sites for clients, correct? Why wouldn’t you share those with us? I am more than happy to share any information with you, but now I am starting to wonder whether Jumby is Gumby!

On a serious note, I enjoy reading all these posts. Allan, you are well versed on the numbers side and I enjoy reading your posts. I wish I had your knowledge, but as young whipper snapper I didn’t take the time to read, I just focused on the game of buying and selling. Of course now I that I am sitting on a giant portfolio of RE (little debt, which is nice), I have plenty of time to read and study what’s to come.

P.S. Clearfund is paying a content writer to put a post together for a reply to you Allan.

[socrattt]

[quote=Jumby]I got a feeling that you want to debate the semantics of the word ‘investment’, which of course is up for everybody’s individual interpretation, so I’ll go ahead and share mine.

First off I’d like to point out that I don’t consider one’s personal home an investment. Your home is alot of things, your refuge, your escape, your piece of the American dream, your shelter, but it’s not an investment property. Investing in real estate isn’t the same as owning a house.

Alot of people around the country will end up spending more money living in their home than they will when they sell it. Dallas (where I currently reside) is a great example of this as I’m seeing homes sell for the same price as they were 10 years ago. After you factor in the fact that the dollar is worth less, property taxes, insurance, maintenance…alot of people will lose money if they sold now (after buying 10 years ago). This scenario obviously isn’t investing….

Investing is when you use money to make more money. To be considered an investment, real estate must generate actual profits, either immediately in the form of income or long term in the form of appreciation. In either case, the property must cover all it’s own costs and produce a reasonable return on the money you spent to buy it.

It would be foolish for anybody to argue against the Shiller data, but it’s equally as foolish not to consider the fact that real estate investors invest using leverage. So just using the Shiller data as the backbone of your case is flawed.

I of course don’t need to explain such simple concepts to an accountant….and since you are an accountant I’m not going to do the simple math that would prove what I just said…[/quote]

Jumby, not to be rude, but after reading this it looks as though you quoted Wikipedia on the term “investment.” I can’t imagine you would pass on sharing investment sites with all of us. I would assume you utilize those sites for clients, correct? Why wouldn’t you share those with us? I am more than happy to share any information with you, but now I am starting to wonder whether Jumby is Gumby!

On a serious note, I enjoy reading all these posts. Allan, you are well versed on the numbers side and I enjoy reading your posts. I wish I had your knowledge, but as young whipper snapper I didn’t take the time to read, I just focused on the game of buying and selling. Of course now I that I am sitting on a giant portfolio of RE (little debt, which is nice), I have plenty of time to read and study what’s to come.

P.S. Clearfund is paying a content writer to put a post together for a reply to you Allan.

[socrattt]

[quote=Jumby]I got a feeling that you want to debate the semantics of the word ‘investment’, which of course is up for everybody’s individual interpretation, so I’ll go ahead and share mine.

First off I’d like to point out that I don’t consider one’s personal home an investment. Your home is alot of things, your refuge, your escape, your piece of the American dream, your shelter, but it’s not an investment property. Investing in real estate isn’t the same as owning a house.

Alot of people around the country will end up spending more money living in their home than they will when they sell it. Dallas (where I currently reside) is a great example of this as I’m seeing homes sell for the same price as they were 10 years ago. After you factor in the fact that the dollar is worth less, property taxes, insurance, maintenance…alot of people will lose money if they sold now (after buying 10 years ago). This scenario obviously isn’t investing….

Investing is when you use money to make more money. To be considered an investment, real estate must generate actual profits, either immediately in the form of income or long term in the form of appreciation. In either case, the property must cover all it’s own costs and produce a reasonable return on the money you spent to buy it.

It would be foolish for anybody to argue against the Shiller data, but it’s equally as foolish not to consider the fact that real estate investors invest using leverage. So just using the Shiller data as the backbone of your case is flawed.

I of course don’t need to explain such simple concepts to an accountant….and since you are an accountant I’m not going to do the simple math that would prove what I just said…[/quote]

Jumby, not to be rude, but after reading this it looks as though you quoted Wikipedia on the term “investment.” I can’t imagine you would pass on sharing investment sites with all of us. I would assume you utilize those sites for clients, correct? Why wouldn’t you share those with us? I am more than happy to share any information with you, but now I am starting to wonder whether Jumby is Gumby!

On a serious note, I enjoy reading all these posts. Allan, you are well versed on the numbers side and I enjoy reading your posts. I wish I had your knowledge, but as young whipper snapper I didn’t take the time to read, I just focused on the game of buying and selling. Of course now I that I am sitting on a giant portfolio of RE (little debt, which is nice), I have plenty of time to read and study what’s to come.

P.S. Clearfund is paying a content writer to put a post together for a reply to you Allan.

[socrattt]

[quote=Jumby]I got a feeling that you want to debate the semantics of the word ‘investment’, which of course is up for everybody’s individual interpretation, so I’ll go ahead and share mine.

First off I’d like to point out that I don’t consider one’s personal home an investment. Your home is alot of things, your refuge, your escape, your piece of the American dream, your shelter, but it’s not an investment property. Investing in real estate isn’t the same as owning a house.

Alot of people around the country will end up spending more money living in their home than they will when they sell it. Dallas (where I currently reside) is a great example of this as I’m seeing homes sell for the same price as they were 10 years ago. After you factor in the fact that the dollar is worth less, property taxes, insurance, maintenance…alot of people will lose money if they sold now (after buying 10 years ago). This scenario obviously isn’t investing….

Investing is when you use money to make more money. To be considered an investment, real estate must generate actual profits, either immediately in the form of income or long term in the form of appreciation. In either case, the property must cover all it’s own costs and produce a reasonable return on the money you spent to buy it.

It would be foolish for anybody to argue against the Shiller data, but it’s equally as foolish not to consider the fact that real estate investors invest using leverage. So just using the Shiller data as the backbone of your case is flawed.

I of course don’t need to explain such simple concepts to an accountant….and since you are an accountant I’m not going to do the simple math that would prove what I just said…[/quote]

Jumby, not to be rude, but after reading this it looks as though you quoted Wikipedia on the term “investment.” I can’t imagine you would pass on sharing investment sites with all of us. I would assume you utilize those sites for clients, correct? Why wouldn’t you share those with us? I am more than happy to share any information with you, but now I am starting to wonder whether Jumby is Gumby!

On a serious note, I enjoy reading all these posts. Allan, you are well versed on the numbers side and I enjoy reading your posts. I wish I had your knowledge, but as young whipper snapper I didn’t take the time to read, I just focused on the game of buying and selling. Of course now I that I am sitting on a giant portfolio of RE (little debt, which is nice), I have plenty of time to read and study what’s to come.

P.S. Clearfund is paying a content writer to put a post together for a reply to you Allan.

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