H1-B Visa program enlargement

[Anonymous]

I also know a fair number of H1-B visa holders, including myself, and I honestly do not think they are paid less than the prevailing wage.

From the example you are mentioning, I am not sure a casino staff member should qualify as a specially skilled worker, but I don’t know anything about that industry, and of course don’t know what were the jobs of your coworkers.

The rules to get an H1-B are quite specific, but from your example, it seems that some employers still find ways to “bend the rules”. This is too bad because:
1- it puts downward pressure on prevailing local wages
2- it prevents potential application for people who would really be needed in certain job categories, but will not be able to get in because the cap will already be reached.

I understand your point about employees feeling they cannot ask for a big raise for fear of losing their job, but I would think (or at least hope) that the anti-discrimination policies would prevent some of the potential abuses.
As much as we would like to have a fool proof system, there are always people who will find ways to abuse the system.

[Peace]

So explain to me why you believe that the increasing inventory of houses on the market will supress the market and make the prices of homes go down

BUT

You don’t think that a world-wide endless supply of applicants doesn’t supress wages?

[Anonymous]

I went to one of the top engineering schools in CA for my BS. I graduated within the last 10 years. What % of my class were US citizens? Maybe 10% (including me). The vast majority were foreign students, who would then become H1B holders if pursuing work in this country.

These kids were by far the smartest and hardest working. Why? While I and the other American students were trying to juggle engineering studies with endless partying/skirt chasing/football/all the other pursuits that most red-blooded Ameican college students enjoy, these kids studied. Most were from cultures where these pursuits were as foreign as praying 5x/day towards Mecca would be for me.

I realized that I would never be able to compete with these guys in the R&D world, so focused my career path on using the engineering degree to get into sales. I have forged a successful career with a large semiconductor firm, and being in sales I don’t have to worry about H1B competition. That said, even while my company is undergoing a restructuring and laying off people, we’re still hiring hundreds of silicon architects and designers because we don’t have anough qualified people to fill the jobs where they need to be filled. Most are in Silicon Valley or other areas outside of SoCal.

If you’re a US citizen with an engineering degree that feels threatened by H1B’s, look for a competitive advantage. Maybe you could do sales! We have a very difficult time finding engineers with the personality and verve to do sales. If that isn’t an option, then go to where the jobs are – the Bay area. San Diego is a tech backwater. If you want to stay here, maybe its wise to study SD Realtor’s career change as a model for success.

[4plexowner]

Engineers and tech workers might consider steering their careers towards the defense industry with the intention of eventually doing work that requires a security clearance.

Classified jobs aren’t going to be exported anytime soon (I’m not willing to say “ever”).

~

IMO, if we actually end up with a global economy, the average global wage will be about 10 of today’s US dollars per hour.

That will be fantastic for other countries like China where the average wage is currently about 60 US cents per hour with no benefits.

It will be very painful here in the US.

$10/hour is $20,000/year – can you even visualize what your lifestyle might look like on $20K/year?

[speedingpullet]

I’d like to chime in on the H1B too…my husband had an H1B (now a Green Card)and is one of 8 people (out of 11 total) in his department who has one. For some reason its very hard to find home-grown computer game programmers…

I’ve seen the myth cited on other blogs, too the “H1Bs get paid less than US Citizens”, and its simply not true. All 8 of my husbands coworkers were offered competitive salaries, get pay rises, bonuses, healthcare, insurance etc… completley in line with thier US Citzien counterparts.

[picpoule]

SebNY, de ma part, je suis tres contente d’avoir des francais comme vous ici aux Etats-Unis!

[PerryChase]

Let’s face it. It’s true that foreigners study hard and get good grades. When I was in school, American studends worried about the Asians killing the curve.

If we want the jobs, we’d better get off our lazy asses and start studying. Boston_and_OC is right, American students spend too much time partying.

[powayseller]

Outsourcing started in the blue collar sector decades ago. We felt bad for the unemployed auto worker, but then shifted our attention to the benefit to us: cheaper cars. When Levi’s pulled out of the US, we felt compassion for the displaced families, but then reminded ourselves that jeans would now be cheaper. All along the way, the consumer benefitted, at the expense of the few who lost their jobs. Those of us in white-collar jobs never cared much about the manufacturing sector, because it affected “them”, and not “us”, as we were safe in our office jobs.

Not any more. Borders are opening wider, and outsourcing is gaining momentum, as it has moved to to white collar jobs. It’s not only engineers who are affected. Even doctors must worry about their job security. First, it started with radiologists in India scanning digital images. Recently I read that an East coast company’s employees fly to India to get surgeries at a fraction of the cost. My in-laws have been going to Mexico for years for their dental work and medicine.

A global economy will lead to global wages. Our wages will go down, 3rd world wages will go up.

This is only the beginning. If you want job security, be a plumber. Or be more creative than everybody else.

For 90% of the people, wages will go down to meet the rising wages in 3rd world countries, until the entire globe has equal wages, an equal standard of living. That is how it should be, if we have any sense of justice and compassion for others.

[anxvariety]

From the example you are mentioning, I am not sure a casino staff member should qualify as a specially skilled worker, but I don’t know anything about that industry, and of course don’t know what were the jobs of your coworkers.

Network engineer and software developer jobs for the casino.

[anxvariety]

If we want the jobs, we’d better get off our lazy asses and start studying. Boston_and_OC is right, American students spend too much time partying.

It’s not “us” per say.. it just comes with the territory of being on top.. the phenomena is seen everywhere especially in pro sports.. if a team or player starts to relax, the other team will come back and win.

[barnaby33]

PS based on that sentiment we should have no border controls. At least not controls designed to limit people coming here for work. Thats very Libertarian of you.

Josh

[ybc]

Boston_and_OC: “These kids were by far the smartest and hardest working. Why? While I and the other American students were trying to juggle engineering studies with endless partying/skirt chasing/football/all the other pursuits that most red-blooded Ameican college students enjoy, these kids studied. Most were from cultures where these pursuits were as foreign as praying 5x/day towards Mecca would be for me.”

Thanks for saying that. This reminds of my experience of being a Teaching Assistant at a top engineering school. I was quite intimated by my students who on average were older, until I rearlized how much they needed my tutoring. Of course, to this day, I still can’t converse in sports, and sports is a favorite office small talk topic!

Boston_and_OC: you are very smart to pursue a career in sales; and you’re right that it’s rare to find someone who can bridge the technical and the business world well. Good for you!

[Anonymous]

Who here has direct experience in the job categories?

Who of those responding are directly in industries affected by this?

I am (to some degree) and the notion that there is a huge shortage of US engineers and scientists is absolutely not the case. Or more specifically, if there were a reasonable career path there would be plenty of supply to meet the demand. That’s exactly what happened in the tech boom—plenty of US students came on-line, and were quickly laid off.

The reality is that the job market for US born scientists and engineers is very difficult in most circumstances, especially if you want to consider your life after 35 or 40. Even in biotech, you have thousands of PhD’s scrambling for poorly paid and temporary postdoc positions (pretty clear what the market is saying about this); pharmaecutical companies are making cutbacks in research.

And the requirements in the private sector are extraordinarily narrow in terms of supposed requirements (well beyond realistic need and adaptability of these very smart people). They reject many many applications from people who really are capable—and then use this as an excuse to outsource and get more immigrants.

I know first hand that Qualcomm is sending out entire, successful departments overseas—they already have plenty of engineers in soon-to-be eliminated jobs here.

The reality is that Asian-born and to some level European people have a profound *advantage* in the science and engineering job market and careers. They have some opportunitites here, but if the company moves the R&D to India or China, many could get a job “back home”, and often one which is a promotion. Americans can’t. China is impossible for Americans due to language, and India is really difficult to get a work visa, and there aren’t anti-discrimination laws in your favor. {There is the other rarely spoken reality that successful Asian immigrants in the US who have risen to management positions are leading the way in outsourcing to their home countries as they have contacts and with cultural familiarity their own career can go quite higher, it is not necessity at all but frank initiative and desire.}

European companies usually favor other EU applicants and with the higher level of government involvment in industry and available jobs the requirements are often legal.

I have a UC PhD in a hard science (Ivy undergrad), a good record. At age 38, I’ve been involuntarily unemployed for 6 months, and I haven’t even gotten back one single phone call regarding any employment application. All are straight up “no”.

[powayseller]

Josh, I wasn’t giving an opinion on immigration or border control, but an observation. I personally don’t undertand why we need to outsource; why can’t we just close our borders or impose tariffs? We should protect our American workers. I have sympathy for you and my other friends who fear being outsourced, as much as I did watching TV in the 70’s, when they interviewed laid-off auto workers who had committed their entire careers to their company and now had no prospects for a new career in a an auto-only town.

But the protection of the American worker, which I what I would like to see, is not what’s happening; corporations care more about the bottom line than in helping maintain the lifestyle of their employees.

So Josh, I am on your side, really! BTW, after having met you, I can tell you that you’d be a great salesman! You have the charisma needed for that job.

[technovelist]

SebNY said:

“I am repeating myself because it seems that a few people on the forum don’t get it: H1-B visa holders are NOT paid less than a similarly qualified US citizen.”

I heard your claim the first time. Unfortunately, it is quite incorrect. H1-B visa holders are on the average paid MUCH less than a similarly qualified US citizen, regardless of what the law supposedly requires. Here is some research on this exact topic.

[Author]

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