H1-B Visa program enlargement

[studenteconomist]

There have been a lot of market discussions in this forum, from labor issues to free trade to US competitiveness. Each one I have fairly strong opinions on and think about them more than most I know. Here are my thoughts.

We should be lucky that well-trained foreigners want to move from their homelands to work in the US (most would prefer to stay near family and a culture they fit into if they could find the same jobs). And we should feel even more lucky that the multi-national companies still want to have their jobs located in the US. As the world gets more competitive, both the foreigners and the companies will have more options. I am certain that they will increasingly mean that both the foreigners will choose to stay in their home country and the multi-national companies will choose to locate new jobs to those other countries (mainly in Asia). Who wins if this happens? US citizens might get higher jobs, but with less workers and less jobs our economy will be much smaller, and so thus will our overall prosperity.

Most of the posts are from a personal or microeconomic point of view. That’s natural but from the macroeconomic point of view, H1-B visas are a winner for the US. We get to have many of the best and the brightest from other parts of the world for no cost to US taxpayers!! They come all grown up, ready to work and contribute to the rest of our society, including the slackers who don’t even exert themselves here. Many become permanent residents or citizens, but some move back home (thus forfitting their Social Security). More than 50% of my friends and co-workers are foreign-born, and I know the benefits well. As for those hurt in this area (US workers), you have to ask yourself, am I committed to free trade (and labor) even when I am the loser or do I favor free trade just when it helps me? A truly free market (without corruption) will cause everyone to adapt to the needs of the market. If that could ever be achieved, then we would all collectively be better off, worldwide.

One last comment. Think about jobs from the executive’s point of view of a multi-national company. Exxon, Coca-cola, Motorola or any other number of billion dollar companies are not American. I repeat they are not American, nor are they working in the interests of the US. They are global, and care about maximizing their global business, which means increasing their profits everywhere on earth. This concept of meta-nationalism is so utterly foreign for most people, because for the last 200 years nationalism has been so dominant. These executives have a choice as to where to keep jobs, and if business is too expensive in the US, they will go someplace cheaper. One way of keeping them in the US is to have the best employees, regardless of if they are US born or not. H1-B visas help keep jobs in the US, even if it is not Americans who fill them (but they do pay taxes for the rest of us, and buy stuff here to so our country benefits about the same as native workers).

I would appreciate your comments.

[ybc]

studenteconomist, well said.

Just want to point out several things. First, currently the H1B visa is used up very quickly (in 9 to 10 months?), so there is a need to enlarge it. Currently you have some companies who couldn’t fill their job opennings due to H1B visa restrictions. What would you like them to do? To open a branch in India or China and cap their employee base in the US? Sadly, many large tech companies have already done so. Second, many H1B visa applicants are foreign students who just graduated from an US univeristy, (many with post-graduate degrees). Lastly, from an employer point of view (and that’s my own experience from a hiring perspective) it’s much easier to hire a qualified US engineer if they can find one because of the extra work involved in H1B visas.

For the US to stay competitive, it either has to boost its k12 education system, or have to continue to have a very open policy to welcome well educated foreigners to come to this country. As many posters point out, educated foreigners are a net contributor to the US economy. But the more critical fix is the former — K12 math and science education. It’ll take a long time, and sadly, there doesn’t seem to be any sign of it. (Bill Gates needs to try harder)

[Anonymous]

Great post studenteconomist, that’s a good summary of my position.

As ybc just mentioned, most H1-B holders have a US diploma, a lot of them Masters or Phds. I got my MBA from an Ivy League in NYC, and feel that I contribute plenty to the US economy.

I moved to the US when I was 25, all grown up(zero education cost to the US economy, I guess the French government should be pissed at me), with some prior international experience, ready and willing to work hard. I chose to stay in the US for the opportunities available to foreign nationals.

Like you said, I don’t know of many countries where foreigners can climb the corporate ladder to be CEO of top companies (Cola-Cola, etc.). In order to do so, I personally believe it is more difficult than for a nationals, and you need to be that much better for the company to justify the cost and paperwork of sponsoring a visa.

Another point on the tax implication: if I lose my job, I have to leave the country, and cannot claim unemployment, although I am paying for it as par of my taxes. So, as a foreigner, you don’t have the right to make any mistake, but it is a risk willingly taken to gain a great experience, get great exposure, and possibly get permanent residency.

[bubble_contagion]

I believe we do have enough engineers. There are not enough US engineers so we give 65,000 H1-B visas per year to foreigners plus 20,000 per year to international graduate students of U.S. universities. In the late 90s the quota was 140,000. With the current economy I see no reason to increase it to that level again. Keep in mind that the H1-B visa is not limited to engineers. The visa is for “specialty labor” and the minimum requirement is to have a college degree. Back in the late 90s with such a large quota and pre-9/11 it was fairly easy to get one if you had a job offer and a good lawyer.

From Homeland Security:

What is an H-1B?

The H-1B is a nonimmigrant classification used by an alien who will be employed temporarily in a specialty occupation or as a fashion model of distinguished merit and ability.

What is a specialty occupation?

A specialty occupation requires theoretical and practical application of a body of specialized knowledge along with at least a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent. For example, architecture, engineering, mathematics, physical sciences, social sciences, medicine and health, education, business specialties, accounting, law, theology, and the arts are specialty occupations.

[anxvariety]

Foreign H1B engineers help us keep a high level of innovation in America and help ensure that discoveries belong to American companies.

Alot of companies aren’t innovative because they don’t need to be.. casinos are one example. They hire the h1s at low wages and will starve them on their wage.. theres is no reason for a casino to be ambitious about who it hires because in that industry the supply of customers is constant/ no innovation required. This gives those types of employers an easy street to manipulating employees – since h1’s don’t really have any bargaining chips..

More opinion..
Almost anything that appears to be a drain on culture or legal residents can almost always be traced to some ‘savings’ by the rich.. I believe the rich are draining american culture through encouraging lax immigration laws. People that have lived in American their whole life are sinking in percentages, and with that a sense of belonging somewhere is diminishing.. these illegal immigrants can always fly their flag or cheer for their home country when they feel left out, while US citizens are at a disadvantage because everything good we do benefits everyone yet anything bad that happens we are the only ones who accept responsibilty.

[Nancy_s soothsayer]

The H1-B visa is just another method to increase the number of slave-work in order for the CEO’s to reap more rewards to justify their 100x salaries vs. peons’. Bottom line is downward pressure on salaries and greater profits for CEO’s. The rich get richer and the poor, poorer. The short-sighted say, “Prices for goods get cheaper.” Yeah, in the short term. But in the long term, even cheap prices become unafordable to the toiling masses with slave-wage salaries. Just go to the third-world countries. The rich are super-rich, and the poor are slaves. Why don’t we hire children again, scrap child labor laws, to reduce prices further?

My best friend is a H1-B visa nurse from a thirld world country. As soon as she got her green card, she petitioned her parents to come to the US. Then her parents petitioned her 5 siblings. The parents and siblings are not professionals. The parents and a few sibs are now on the dole. America is so great!

[ybc]

“My best friend is a H1-B visa nurse from a thirld world country. As soon as she got her green card, she petitioned her parents to come to the US. Then her parents petitioned her 5 siblings. The parents and siblings are not professionals. The parents and a few sibs are now on the dole. America is so great!”

That’s interesting, do you know how long it takes? Because for a greencard holder to sponsor parents, it takes at least 5 to 7 years, if not longer. And if her other siblings are adults, it also took a very long time (if not impossible). I know someone who has a greencard and his wife can’t stay in the US because the normal process takes 5 to 7 years! Right now they are separated across the Pacific. They’re trying visa lottery every year hoping to get lucky. Another friend made the mistake of giving birth in China (she was a permanent residient already at the time) and didn’t bring her daughter along the very first time she returned to the US. So her daughter couldn’t get a visa to come to the US and was brought up by grandma until she was 5. This friend had to wait to get citizenship first because as a greencard holder your priority is so low that wait time is incredibly long. Immigration lost her paperwork, so she had to write to the senator in her states to petition for help. Luckily, a staff member was sympathetic and finally her daughter was able to come — it took 5 years!

It is actually very very difficult to get into this country using normal, legal channels.

[PerryChase]

I believe that only 20% of Americans own passports. American should travel more. If they traveled more (going to beach in Mexico does not count) they’d realize that we aren’t that great (relatively) and that others are catching up to us quickly.

One of the advantages America still has is that we can attract the best and the brightest. If we don’t welcome them then they’ll be staying home finding ways to compete with us. Would you rather smart foreigners worked for us or compete against us?

[rankandfile]

Don’t be misled. The enlargement of the program is all about money, plain and simple. The large corporations lobbying politicians for expansion of the provision stand to sustain or increase their profits by adding foreign-born engineers. It is well-known that these corporations can get away with paying foreign engineers much less. It’s all about the scratch, fellas.

The ironic thing is that the products that these large corporations produce are protected in the marketplace by tariffs. The government adds a tax to foreign products coming into the country to provide incentive to purchase the homegrown product. Why doesn’t the government assess a tariff or tax on foreign labor? Wouldn’t that be the right thing to do? Either that or get rid of tariffs altogether.

[Anonymous]

anxvariety, you are mixing legal and illegal immigration!! Thes are two very different classes of people. I have an H1-B, am agains the “amnesty” proposal for illegal immigrants: why should someone who has been here illegally for 5 years or more have more rights than me who has been here for 8.5 years legally, paying taxes?

I am repeating myself because it seems that a few people on the forum don’t get it: H1-B visa holders are NOT paid less than a similarly qualified US citizen. Maybe you are comparing to illegal immigrants.

The debate is very easily biased by switching from legal to illegal immigration. I approve legal immigration, which does not place downward pressure to local US wages, since it follows strict criteria. I am against the rampant illegal immigration which is the one that places downward pressure to low income US citizens

In a remark about sponsoring the parents and siblings, I confirm what ybc said, you CANNOT easily sponsor your parents and siblings once you have the Green Card. You need to have the Green Card for 5 years before you can apply for citizenship, and only then can you sponsor your parents. If you want to sponsor your siblings, it will take another few years. So, your point about your “friend” nurse who sponsored her entire family is very exagerated, and your timeline is off. If it was that easy, I would know.

[PerryChase]

sebNY, tu es francais? Ma mère est française et j’ai grandi et étudié à Paris. Les Américains travaillent dur mais ils ne réflechissent pas beaucoup. Malheureusement, la situation en la France, avec les gens comme Le Pen, n’est pas vraiment meilleure. Quand les temps sont incertains, il est toujours plus facile de blâmer les personnes qui n’ont aucune voix.

[Anonymous]

perrychase, je suis Francais effectivement, ai vecu aux US depuis plus de 8 ans, d’abord pour une boite francaise en Floride, puis ai demenage a NY pour continuer mes etudes, ai travaille a NY pendant 3 ans, et viens de demenager a San Diego.
Is it a French blog or what? It’s funny how everywhere I go I keep on meeting people who speak French, but I also keep on hearing about how Americans hate the French. Maybe I should start a new thread on that subject. It seems to me that France and the US love to hate each other…

[rankandfile]

Parler dans une langue différente que tout le monde n'est pas autrement toujours un signe d'une plus grande intelligence.

Speaking in a different language than everybody else is not always a sign of greater intelligence.

[anxvariety]

One of the advantages America still has is that we can attract the best and the brightest.

Is that the category you put the illegal immigrants in? Most of these H1 jobs aren’t for the brilliant.. lots of these are for jobs like QA and network technicians – which are about as entry level as it gets…

[anxvariety]

I am repeating myself because it seems that a few people on the forum don’t get it: H1-B visa holders are NOT paid less than a similarly qualified US citizen.

I don’t see how you can say that as if it’s fact.. companies have to pay for sponsorship right? Why would they pay for sponsorship AND pay the same wage? The casino I worked for put a clause in the employment agreement that should the employee not stay with the company for a year the employee would be liable for the h1 fees/sponsorship whatever it is.

I’m speaking from actual experiences.. I’ve worked with H1s before and am friends with them.. the 2 I knew both felt like couldn’t get raises.. one was afraid to even ask because he felt that he needed to show loyalty and the other guy knew how hard it was to get a raise from a casino and didn’t feel he could safely play hardball. When I asked for a raise I didn’t get it.. so I left and they ended up hiring another H1.

I believe the issue is that both h1s and citizens gets paid less… and both are less likely to get raises or good raises because they are competing against eachother as worthy replacements for the same jobs.

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