Foreclosure Video – Wisconsin news channel

[lostkitty]

All of you need to read “BLOWBACK”! It puts so many of your comments and guesses into perspective historically without having to go out and reread US & world history texts, and, (for true balance), the world history texts of foreign countries.

I actually heard of this book from a journalist friend I met in Japan. His name is Murray Sayle (Australian – but has lived in Japan for decades). We were the only foreigners living where we did, and we had fantastic conversations over dinner regarding world-wide politics, historical events, etc. It was terribly eye-opening to discuss these things with someone who not only covered the events, but is not American.

Interestingly – the author of Blowback (Chalmers Johnson) is one of Murray’s best friends – and get this… he lives in Cardiff, CA!!!!!

[4plexowner]

PD, when you talk about a “significant problem with a group of religious fanatics”, which group of religious fanatics are you referring to – ours or theirs?

[4plexowner]

PD, I’m going to respond to some of the points in your post – “4plexowner, you seem to have a lot of anti-American sentiment.”. Please don’t take this as an attack on you or your beliefs. My intent is to offer another perspective on the events that you refer to.

“The United States is the most benevolent superpower in the history of the world. Every other country or Empire with similar resources for their time invaded, raped, slaughtered and subjugated whomever they could reach.”

I’m assuming this is in reference to Iraq. By the UN’s own definition of warfare, America started an aggressive war when it invaded Iraq. How do you define the events at Abu Ghraib prison? Does it bother you that NO officers have been convicted of wrongdoing in that matter? What about the US troops who are currently being investigated for the murder of an Iraqi family with the youngest child being 1 year old? This murder (if it was murder) occurred about six months ago and has been covered up since.

“They certainly did not help a defeated country set up self-governance and encourage future autonomy.”

Again, I’m assuming that you are referring to Iraq. After destroying a large part of Iraq’s basic infrastructure in an aggressive war America then tried to create a puppet government there. No-bid contracts were given to government-connected corporations to rebuild the destroyed infrastructure. After spending 100’s of billions of dollars on this rebuilding effort, numerous reports indicate that Iraqis have less electricity, clean water, access to healthcare, gasoline, etc today than they did before America decided to “help them”.

“The US could easily have claimed half of Europe after WWII, the Russians certainly did.”

Once you realize that the banking cartel starts wars because it is good for their business, history takes on new meaning. WWII occurred in part as a result of the banking/financial games that were played in WWI.

“We also could have pillaged Japan, yet we walked away after a short occupation.”

America remained in Japan after the war and still has troops stationed there today. We were instrumental in rebuilding their war-ravaged country and we implemented the quality control measures that allowed Japanese industry to prosper in the world.

“We could easily have claimed Afghanistan as a territory and could even now be requiring English in the schools. The same goes for Iraq.”

I find it interesting that America only tries to occupy and control countries that have oil. Afghanistan doesn’t have oil so America isn’t interested in claiming it. In Iraq, on the other hand, America is building 14 major military bases and president Bush recently stated that future presidents would have to decide when the troops would leave Iraq (meaning they will remain through 2008 at least). Pakistan and North Korea are allowed to have nuclear weapons but Iran can’t have them. Again, notice that neither Pakistan or North Korea have significant petroleum reserves but Iran does.

[PD]

4plexowner, I don’t have time to respond to everything right now. With respect to Abu Ghraib and other instances of misconduct, it is inevitable that things like that are going to happen (not that it should be tolerated). If you look at the big picture and compare the overall conduct of our troops against that of ANY OTHER OCCUPYING force in the history of the world, I defy you to find an armed force that has behaved better or with more compassion. We are building schools and supplying hospitals and doing untold other good works that aren’t reported because the media would rather vilify our troops.

War is as ugly as it is inevitable but we have gone to great lengths to try to reduce the ugliness among civilians. It is NOT possible to shield all innocents, however.

I would be outraged if I found out that we were routinely cutting off people’s limbs just for the enjoyment of it, organizing camps of women who are used as prostitutes and raped repeatedly, keeping people in horrible camps where they are starved, beaten and used for horrific medical experiments (don’t go off on Gitmo, there is no comparison), packing people on railroad cars like animals and transporting them for days without food or water, gassing thousands or lining them up over ditches so their bodies could be easily disposed after being shot. All of these things have happened repeatedly in the recent past by other groups, including the Iraq.

I am quite certain that there are going to be isolated problems but they are not epidemic.

Abu Ghraib was bad but compare what happened there to true atrocities. There is no comparison.

Do you believe that Iraq was better off with Saddam Hussien’s vicious government?

[powayseller]

I love America, and the American people. I distrust the government. Perhaps the occupation of other countries benefits the USA, otherwise, why do they do it?

I also used to think that the US invades countries for their oil. Iraq had switched to selling oil in euros, and the US made sure that was reverted back to selling in dollars. Yet, why don’t we invade Nigeria or Venezuala, oil-rich countries? Or other African nations, which have lots of oil and other minerals? They would be so easy to plunder. It seems the US is more interested in controlling the Middle East. Is oil the only thing the US government wants? Or is it helping Israel?

Regarding Israel, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, I am amazed how dry and barren those countries are. Perhaps that’s why Jesus went there, to bring some hope to such a desolate place. In the movies I’ve seen filmed on location in those countries, and other footage, there isn’t a tree, shrub, flower, or even weed in sight. Those countries are too dry even for weeds to grow. They are not pretty at all. I would not want to live there in all that dry desert. Why do people fight about such a barren land?

I wonder if the military really support the goverment foreign policy. I admire their patriotism, but wonder if they are blindly following. Perhaps the military personnel should ask Bush what their companions died for in Iraq. I can understand dying to defend our country, but why die for invading another country? That isn’t noble. Why are the brave men and women in the military doing this? Do they know something we don’t?

In any case, I don’t feel safer from terrorism attacks by the administration foreign policies. It seems we are more vulnerable, because instead of working with other countries, we take the tactic of bossing them around, and making more enemies.

This is the foreign policy statement, “You Englad can have nuclear weapons, but you Iran cannot. We decide who gets to have them, but we will keep them for sure, in case we need them to put you in line. We decide if your leaders are appropriate. We don’t care if you like them or not. If we don’t like your leaders, we may invade and overthrow them. If anyone gets in our way, all options are on the table. That means nuclear as well. This is why we need our nuclear weapons, so we can intimidate you to do what we say. And our allies? Don’t need ’em. We can go it alone…” Isn’t that what Condie Rice is really saying?

I don’t know if a nuclear Iran is a problem. In world history, only the US has used nuclear weapons. Perhaps the US is the country which should not have them. Since they have a precedent of using them. After all, the other countries have shown restraint.

[hs]

Agree with you, Powayseller.

Bush and Cheney’s foreign policy failed because of their arrogance.

Usually military people do not have a choice, but follow the orders. I feel bad to see those young kids die so young. If Bush and Cheney think this war is so right, why don’t they send their own kids to the war? Where is their patriotism?

[powayseller]

hs, interesting point. And you’re a military wife, too. How does your husband feel about the US foreign policy? Did he go willingly into any combat?

I always said that the president who wages war should put his own life on the line. He should challenge the other leader to a sword fight.

Then the war is decided by only one life lost.

If it’s that important, let him go too. Napoleon did that. He fought with his troops.

What does China think about Iran and their nuclear ambitions? Why are they not worried about it? Do they just want to sell the bomb making material to Iran, do they want to keep negotiations open to buy oil, or do they think it’s not a threat?

About Abu Ghraib – that was just a few people acting out of line. If someone at IBM raids the petty cash drawer, do we say that all technology companies hire thieves? The men and women of the military are 99% honorable, hard working, patriotic. I just feel bad that they have to leave their families for so much, and that they make their living occupying other countries and killing people. That is bad karma. You cannot tell your creator you killed those Iraqis because your president asked you to. That’s not a good reason. Now if those Iraqis came here and attacked us, I’d say we should fight back. But why do we always have to be the ones to invade, to start a war? PD, do you defend this? I’m curious why anyone thinks this is good. Just trying to learn…

[Author]

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