Foreclosure Video – Wisconsin news channel

[lostkitty]

PD – Not everyone who opposes this war and presidents actions necessrily believe that “there is some group of super powerful dry skinned old men closeted away in a dark room chain smoking while they manipulate world”. I actually believe that the 9/11 terorists got really really lucky with a low budget attempt to provoke the US. What I think – and more and more people are coming to agree – is that taking the “war on terror” to Iraq was a mistake from the get-go. Now you, and I and our children will pay for years to come – in more ways than financially.

The book I suggested to you “Blowback” has no conspiracy theories in it at all – that is why I suggested it. Just the conclusions and obbservations of an octgenarian(sp?), well-travelled, well-educated American (ex-military). I am guessing you are a military family living in Coronado or the Cays and having come from a tour in D.C? Well, that is the same as my background – so I hope you will consider reading some on the issue. it is complex, and certainly the most important issue facing all of us today. This is why the topic continues to creep up in all sorts of web forums totally unrelated to politics… Intelligent people like you are missing out on crucial information because it isnt widely disseminated.

[PD]

Lostkitty, I’ll read the book you suggest. I have no desire to hide my head in the sand. Perhaps it was a mistake to invade Iraq. Perhaps it was not a mistake. I’m undecided there. Just because we did not find WMD doesn’t mean it wasn’t there or that it wasn’t shipped off to Syria. My family once found a rotten egg hidden in the organ months after Easter was over.

As for us and our children experiencing problems related to this issue for years to come, that was going to happen whether we invaded Iraq or not. The fact is that there is a group of highly motivated fanatics who hate the US and are determined to hurt us. The pain started almost 15 years ago when they bombed the World Trade Center for the 1st time.

I get a little hot under the collar when people, including otherwise smart Americans, begin spouting the nonsense that we planned and/or WANTED 9/11 to happen. Then they follow it up by the laying the groundwork for the idea that any future attacks on our soil will the handiwork of our own government.

If a stolen suitcase nuke from the former USSR is detonated in DC, I’m pointing the figure elsewhere.

We seem to have gone off on a tangent and hijacked the thread. If anyone wants to continue the discussion, perhaps we should open a new one.

[hs]

well said, zk. Bush and Cheney got their priority wrong, for whatever their own purposes are.

If they had focused more on Bin laden, US would have gained more support from the whole world, not so much hatred.

[zk]

“I get a little hot under the collar when people, including otherwise smart Americans, begin spouting the nonsense that we planned and/or WANTED 9/11 to happen.”

I concur that this is ridiculous nonsense. I used to think Charlie Sheen was a pretty cool dude until he got on that train. Turns out he’s a nut job. Or at least not a very good thinker.

[lostkitty]

The “Blowback” book is good because it explains a bit about how that “Imperialist” word keeps getting paired up with this presidency. As I said, it was written pre-9/11, pre-GWBush. We’ve been behaving badly (bullying)in some repsects for years internationally. It is interesting to get some perspective on it since everything gets viewed through post-9/11 goggles.

[powayseller]

I’m amazed that one country, the US, keeps thinking it has a right to tell other countries how to live within their borders. Overthrow is a new book written by a New York Times journalist, espousing the danger of taking out established leaders, and replacing him with one of the US choosing.

I find it odd that Bush think he should have nuclear weapons (and not Iran), when Bush is the one suggesting he may use them. Perhaps we should all get rid of our nuclear weapons. I suspect Iran wants to make nuclear weapons, so it will be on equal footing with the US, and not be intimidated any longer.

The US decides what country it wants to invade, does it without international support for its own gains (whatever they are), and then questions the patriotism of anyone who is against war.

Why is war patriotic?

Why is questioning the killing of foreigners in their own country, considered unpatriotic? We are supposed to blindly support the military.

We don’t need most of them!

Take half the military, send them to college to become teachers. Improve education! Pay down the debt!

My daughter came home today and told me her classmate did a presentation on the national debt. The boy said we spend 40% of our budget on war, 25% on healthcare, and 4% on education. Ever wonder why college is free in Germany? It’s the 40% part – they don’t need to kill people all over the world.

I am opposed to the military. What a waste of money!

[4plexowner]

One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.

America is practicing Empirialism when she assumes the sole right to decide which man is which.

[North County Jim]

I am opposed to the military. What a waste of money!

Here’s a thought experiment for you. Imagine the world today without the US military playing any part in history.

Since this a real estate forum, I’ll leave it at that.

[PD]

4plexowner, you seem to have a lot of anti-American sentiment. Yet you clearly have prospered living in the midst of so called US “imperialism.”
The United States is the most benevolent superpower in the history of the world. Every other country or Empire with similar resources for their time invaded, raped, slaughtered and subjugated whomever they could reach. They certainly did not help a defeated country set up self-governance and encourage future autonomy. The US could easily have claimed half of Europe after WWII, the Russians certainly did. We also could have pillaged Japan, yet we walked away after a short occupation. We could easily have claimed Afghanistan as a territory and could even now be requiring English in the schools. The same goes for Iraq. What would Alexander the Great have done? Or Napoleon, Darius, Ghengis Khan, Hitler, Pol Pot, Cesar, Frederick the Great, William the Conquerer, Richard the Lionhearted, etc.
Who does the world turn to in times of a crisis like famine or a Tsunami? They turn the United States because we help people. Thousands of Americans spend months away from their families assisting people in other countries. Huge streams of American money flow daily out our country to assist people in need, people who aren’t American and never will be.
Powayseller, while you clearly are a smart person, I’m not sure that you have taken a look at history. Countries without strong might behind them end up with someone else’s boot at their throat. Our strong military preserves our way of life, it does not detract from it. People want what we have and will take it if they can.
To quote the foreword of The Timechart History of War, in the history of the world “there have been only 290 years free of the horrors of organised armed strife (not including internal guerrilla activities.”
Personally, I don’t want to be forced to speak Chinese.

[PD]

Powayseller, I can’t believe you said, “Ever wonder why college is free in Germany? It’s the 40% part – they don’t need to kill people all over the world.”
Since Germany tried to take over Europe twice in the last century (while killing millions), other powers haven’t looked kindly on a strong German army.

[4plexowner]

God has truly blessed me. Just being born in the United States is a blessing, IMO. I was also blessed with upper-middle class parents that gave me a good childhood and taught me important ideals and values. I worked hard and continued to be blessed here in America – first paper route at 12, first fast food job at 15, army at 18, college at 21, engineering degree with honors, recruited to San Diego by major corporation – yep, the harder I worked the more I was blessed.

A few years ago I found myself blessed with lots of paper equity in southern CA real estate and I set out on a path of education. I had never had any significant assets before and I didn’t want to screw it up.

The more I learned the more outraged I became at the elitist controlled world of fiat money. I learned that wars are created by the banking cartel because it is good for their business – they get to finance both sides during the war and then they get to finance the reconstruction of the damage done during the war. These wars are also useful to the government of a country in decline because the citizens can be distracted by the war. Economic meltdowns can be hidden behind war fervor. Read “The Creature from Jekyll Island” – it sheds light on how the US Federal Reserve came into being and how the US banking system was created and continues to be controlled by European interests. Numerous examples are provided of how the banking cartel has financed both factions in a war. And don’t forget that the equity markets were in a significant downtrend BEFORE 9/11.

I’m about as patriotic as they come. I can rarely sing either the National Anthem or God Bless America without a lump rising in my throat.

Through my learning, I realized that the lump in my throat was not for the America that I was living in today, but for the America that I envisioned in my mind and loved in my heart. It was the America that you are talking about in your post.

The ‘lump in the throat’ America, IMO, has been lost over the last few decades.

The last six years in particular have marked numerous erosions of America’s one-time glory.

The US Constitution has been blatantly ignored on several occasions by “the decider”.

America started a war of aggression by the United Nation’s own definition of “aggressive warfare”. This war was not approved by the UN Security Council and now many questions are being raised about how and why America started the war.

Numerous examples of fraud and corruption have come to light in both industry and government.

Government statistics have become a joke to all economists who aren’t in somebody’s pocket. I’m not sure which is worse, being lied to, or having them think that we are stupid enough to be lied to and believe it.

Anyway, I consider myself to be very patriotic. The “anti-American sentiment” that you detect in my writing (your labelling, not mine) is my frustration and anger over the rapid downhill slide that I see my country on. The excellent system of American government that was given to us by our forefathers has been perverted to today’s system of government which is for the benefit of corporate interests and not the American citizens.

[john67elco]

I saw the movie “Far and Away” a long time ago. I just finished watching it right now for the second time. That is the way it should be. All you need is your claim stake, tent, horse, and an axe (wish you could’ve rode in on La Jolla or Del Mar back then and claimed 2 Acres) .

I also served in the ARMY with friends still serving in Iraq. I have a large tattoo of the flag and Sept. 11 01 on my shoulder that would probably set me in the far right group. As I watch the continuing war (which I always supported till recently) turn out to be a mess. As I look into how much property taxes are and everything else relating to real estate, makes me pretty sad. I have told my wife as we were looking at homes, “this is depressing and waste of future planning”.

I have seen in the past that Republicans (this is general statement) have increased the debt and boosted the military numbers as Democrats have cut military and decreased budgets (again general statement). Can’t we find a guy in the middle who isn’t a billionaire from Texas that doesn’t know much? So from far right to saying screw politics they all suck is kind of sad. But posted earlier this is a real estate forum but damn all the mess posted above is some kind of a part relating to the national housing mess we have seen thus far. I always wondered if the housing increase would have been this drastic if Sept 11th didn’t happen because it was on the rise before but didn’t jump a ton in one year like 05 did.
Wish list:
1. All I want is my small chunk of land with a nice home
2. Troops to come home (because we aren’t fighting majority of terrorist over there, they are right here in our back yards)
3. Continuing job stability, so far 10 years and going
4. A smarter Jessica Simpson, own that red roofed hotel in Corando, and pay no property, state, or federal taxes again.

Number 4 may happen before the first 3

I liked 4plex owners last post , thats pretty much were I’v been standing…

3rd edit to my post: I remember one of my first post about my good buddy that is getting a divorce in Alta Loma and we could get a decent deal on his house for sale. Due to all the post from you nice folks we backed way off and “chilled”. I am very thankful to be posting in a forum of some well thought out entertaining folks. Thanks to you guys I am not paying 50% of my net income for a house at the moment and still renting for 18%.

[PD]

4plexowner, I agree that there is corruption and fraud in our government. Corruption can probably be found in equal numbers in both the Republican and Democratic parties (and any other party). I doubt there has ever been a time when this was not the case. I also doubt you could find any government in the world without these evils. Further, most governments have more corruption than our own.

As for “wars are created by the banking cartel because it is good for their business,” I’m not buying it. If this is the case, how do you explain the thousands of years of warfare documented in our written history? Certainly, there are and have always been people who profit from war. Did the gun makers or a banking cartel start the civil war? Weapons manufacturers always make a ton in war but I doubt they start it.

There are also a lot of people with an agenda who are very good at massaging the facts to make it appear that something other than the truth has happened. Politicians are very good at that (all sides). Napoleon was horribly defeated in Egypt yet he returned a hero because he was good with propaganda. Anyone who has a seemingly a credible argument that we wanted or encouraged 9/11 is a master propagandist. Just because the equity markets were in a downtrend before 9/11 is not proof that the US or US interests wanted to kill thousands of people on our own soil and bring down the World Trade Center. It is coincidental.

Propaganda aside, we do have a significant problem with a group of religious fanatics who want to do us ill. I feel certain that they would use a nuclear or biological weapon against us if they had it. We need to stop them. They have not been created out of whole cloth by a banking cartel dabbling in directing world events. This problem has been festering for a long time. Clinton had a chance to do something but he turned a blind eye. Nuclear weapons in the hands of fanatics is a very real possibility and must be prevented.

[john67elco]

Ya the next time my bank (Arrowhead Credit Union) startes a war I’m going elsewhere.

[powayseller]

Why does the US have military presence all over the world? I appreciate a military which defends us, but it seems we do more offense than defense.

The soldiers went into Afghanistan to find Bin Laden, and the others responsible for 9/11. But then it turned into the war in Iraq. Where is the link? Bush said he had to go into Iraw to get out the WMD. When they weren’t found, why didn’t he admit he made a mistake, and leave?

Why doesn’t Switzerland have a military? Why are the Europeans oppposed to American foreign policy? Why aren’t other nations siding with Ms. Condoleeza Rice about Iran’s nuclear ambitions?

Perhaps my disinterest in history serves me well. I don’t blame the past for today. I look at what’s before me today, and whether it makes sense.

I question why a country with the largest deficit in the world, a debtor nation, can really afford to wage war all over the world. I ask why those terrorists hate us so much. I know it’s our foreign policy, but not having studied it, I’m not sure why?

Why don’t we retrain half our military, to do R&D on alternative fuels, environmental improvements, technology products?

As far as generosity, it is American people, not the U.S. government, that is generous. After the tsunami, the man in charge of raising money was quite upset at the lack of money coming from the wealthy nations. I would like to see how much we spend to help in African nations, vs. what we spend to overthrow governments we don’t like.

I don’t think the US foreign policy is popular around the world, and I think it’s because of the dominance and meddling. Americans are more interested in watching Survivor than voting. We say we don’t like the war in Iraw, but don’t protest or write to the Congress to stop it. We’re just too lazy. Myself included. We don’t care, because we are unaffected by it.

Let Bush go back to Afghanistan to get that Bin Laden guy. Why is he so hard to find? And while he’s at it, get out of Iraq. He’s creating more instability there. Just wait though – Iran is the next target. Our budget deficit looks sweet now – just wait until you add Iran to the war costs.

PD, why are defending the war? What do you think it accomplished, and what can be gained? Why war in Iraq, and not in Nigeria? Don’t they need our help too?

Why spend money on fighting in Iraq, but not fighting AIDS? The war money could provide health care to every American. Isn’t that more patriotic?

[Author]

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