Fairbanks Ranch vs. Santaluz vs. Cielo vs. rest of Rancho Santa Fe

[raptorduck]

To get back on topic, any further feedback on my Cielo and Santaluz questions? I did find out that Santaluz does not permit more than 25% of the “interior pad” to contain grass? They also only accept 3 kinds of Palm trees, none of which are the kind I like (Phoenix Date Palms anyone?).

[jztz]

This thread reminds me of a NYtimes article on those “barely rich” (with a net worth of $5 to $15M) who feel financially pressured in the bayarea – that is, can’t quite get what they really want, and still live a stressed life with lots of pressure (commnute, work hours, etc). I wonder how many of them will relocate to SRF now that we’ve established that SD is so much nicer and cheaper! Plus, these nice areas of SD are also destinations for second homes of the “truly rich”!

So are there many people relocating away from the bay area? Am curious.

[raptorduck]

Hey, I resemble that remark. Well except that I am not rich at all since I have to go to work to support myself and family. I know some rich people. I am not “barely” one of them either. Heck, I can’t even pretend to “barely” be one of them. They don’t have to work. They can live off the interest of their riches richer than I do off the income from my own sweat.

But I have more than I ever hoped or dreamed I could have so don’t feel pressured at all. Any pressure is my own. You see, if I tell myself that enough times, I start to actually believe it. 😉

I don’t see people leaving the Bay Area in droves. I am because I can. I am lucky. Salaries are, and the job market is, really strong here. Real estate is holding its own and not dropping as much as other areas. I just like SD more is all. Many people here do not care for SoCal so much and think NorCal is heaven on Earth. I completely agree with them . . . if I exclude LA and SD. IMHO, compared to the rest of the country NorCal is heaven on Earth. That would make LA, the nicer part of Heaven and SD the gated community part of Heaven.

Interesting. It was our search for a vacation/second home in SD (a small one mind you) that got us looking at the area again. Reverse sticker shock had us saying “hell with a vacation house, lets move there.” Panama or Spain will be the vacation home goal now (a small house mind you.)

[an]

I don’t know about most of you on here, but for me, if I can afford a $4.5M house, I’d definitely go custom. Find the plot of land in the exact location I want with the size I want and build the house of my dream. Buying the land for $3M, and build a 3-5000 sq-ft house for the other $1.5M is what I’d do. I’ve been in several multi-million $ homes and there’s one thing or another that I’d change if it was my house. When dropping $4.5M on a house, I want to to be perfect. Only custom home can give me that.

[raptorduck]

That is a whole other ball game. I don’t want to go into detail but we considered that up here, enough to make 2 offers on raw land/tear downs. Here $2 million per acre will get you raw land. But after hiring contractors and architects we decided against it.

Too many reasons to list but, costs to build here are $450-$600/sf, permits in LAH make the Covenant restrictions look easy as pie, you always go over budget, and the market does not support building 6,000+ sf homes from scratch right now because neighboring finished home values won’t justify the construction loan valuation needed.

I could go on, but I have said to much off track in this thread, which was intended to solicit advice about the areas I am looking in. I realize costs to build in SD are lower, as is the land, but there are other reasons we decided against building ourselves. It is not for the faint at heart or the very busy.

I get your point about wanting a house just right for that price. Hence why we will take our time until we find “just” the right house.

[SD Realtor]

raptorduck I don’t want to plug Cielo to much. I do have a listing up there, (a lot) not a finished home… and you are indeed correct that the views are incredible. This one lot in particular has a southwest view that is spectacular and cannot be matched in any of the areas you mentioned.

I cannot argue with that one for a second. However I just stick to my guns for FB and areas down in the valley so to speak. Also Cielo is just about as inconvenient a location as anywhere out that way. To get ANYWHERE you have to travel a ways just to hit the freeway. To get to 15 you have to trek back up through Lake Hodges. You cannot even make it across to 56 because you have to be a member of the Crosby to cut across… so that means you have to go west to get to the 5… not easy….

Also many of the view lots at the top of Cielo on Camino de Arriba are great view lots, but alot of the lot sq footage is on unusable slope so you will not have a huge backyard given the size of the lot. Again though, the view lots up top have smoking views, you cannot argue with that…. just a wild guess here but is your agent a Prudential Realtor?

SD Realtor

[raptorduck]

No she is not, and I don’t want to out her. 😉

Thanks for the comment. So is Camino de Arriba the highest part of Cielo? We are looking at 2 houses on that road I think this weekend. The first time we went, we looked at houses much lower, near the club house. Their views were magnificant and they were easier to get to from the gate on Del Dios. The second time we saw a house higher up, I forget the street that was considerably more effort to get to. I think Amanacer or something. It belonged to a San Diego Charger. Not so much nicer from the earlier houses there to justify the extra hill climb and the view was more expansive I grant you, but again, it was quite a hike to get there from the gate. If I have to climb more, I want a much nicer house to merit the extra effort.

Interestingly, up here, the higher you go up into the mountains, the lower the home values, view or not (generally). We had looked in a town called Woodside up here (very expensive and high end up here like RSF is down there). We found a gated community in the mountains and found a great 4,300sf home on 5 acres for a mere $2.3 million AND with a great bay view!

Turns out the house was not so custom as there was an almost identical one (same exact model really down the sf) in LAH for twice the price and only on 1 acre and Woodside is not a lower price area from LAH. The difference? 10 min of tight windy road from the gate! When it rains up here in the mountains it RAINS. I could not imagine doing that climb in the rain, in the dark of winter. Definately not for me. It sold right quick though at that price, climb or no climb.

[San Diego Native]

Just a comment about Cielo.

A couple of families we know moved from La Jolla to Cielo, and are now thinking about moving again–it’s beautiful, but a bit inconvenient, when it comes to getting kids to school, errands, and to the I-5, etc.

We have a little clique we like to call “Hollywood South,”
writers, producers, actors etc., etc., who work in the film and TV industry in LA, but choose to raise our families in the La Jolla area, so we do like to have access to the I-5, if we have to drive up. Most times, we fly, so it’s generally of no consequence, but if one had to negotiate Del Dios on a daily basis, it could get old.

Just something to consider.

[SD Realtor]

Yes Raptor Camino de Arriba is one of the “high” streets… I don’t know if it is the highest, but if I were going to live out there then I would get one of the homes on the top of the hill as opposed to the ones down near the clubhouse… Agreed though, it would not be a fun road to travel on a rainy day… However the rain we have here in SD pales in comparison to bay area rain.

San Diego Native really made a good point… I think that over a very short period of time you would find that the drive to basically ANYWHERE from Cielo or even most all of the Covenent would get really old really fast. Especially if you want your relatives to come over alot or if you visit them alot.

[CardiffBaseball]

I don’t mean to steal Raptor’s thread but what exactly does the term “covenant” mean when speaking of RSF?

[bsrsharma]

CB: See http://www.rsfassociation.org/pages/cove.html

{The original meaning of the word is an agreement with God. But here it is used as a lofty term for a contract.

Genesis 15
God’s Covenant With Abram
1 After this, the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision:
“Do not be afraid, Abram.
I am your shield, [a]
your very great reward. [b] ”
2 But Abram said, “O Sovereign LORD, what can you give me since I remain childless and the one who will inherit [c] my estate is Eliezer of Damascus?” 3 And Abram said, “You have given me no children; so a servant in my household will be my heir.”

4 Then the word of the LORD came to him: “This man will not be your heir, but a son coming from your own body will be your heir.” 5 He took him outside and said, “Look up at the heavens and count the stars—if indeed you can count them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”

6 Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

7 He also said to him, “I am the LORD, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to take possession of it.”

8 But Abram said, “O Sovereign LORD, how can I know that I will gain possession of it?”

9 So the LORD said to him, “Bring me a heifer, a goat and a ram, each three years old, along with a dove and a young pigeon.”

10 Abram brought all these to him, cut them in two and arranged the halves opposite each other; the birds, however, he did not cut in half. 11 Then birds of prey came down on the carcasses, but Abram drove them away.

12 As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him. 13 Then the LORD said to him, “Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years. 14 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions. 15 You, however, will go to your fathers in peace and be buried at a good old age. 16 In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure.”

17 When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. 18 On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the river [d] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates- 19 the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, 20 Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, 21 Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”

}

[Raybyrnes]

raptorduck

Any reason why Coronado is not on you list. I can appreciate that you don’t get a lot of land but you do get a lot of the other things you had spoken about ie. Arxchetectural detail, landscaping, good schools, great views etc.

[raptorduck]

Back from our San Diego Trip. Ok, we toured 17 houses in Fairbanks Ranch, Rancho Valencia, Santaluz, and Cielo. After 45 houses we have looked at (including other RSF and Del Mar areas) here is my take:

Cielo

-Cielo is indeed the most isolated. But, I did the commute in the middle of rush hour on Friday from my job to the Cielo gate. Total time: 15 minutes (my current commute is 1-1.5 hrs in rush hour!!)! That said, relative to all others, it is very isolated, particularly the homes on top of the hill.

– I actually prefer the homes with views near the club-house to those up higher.

– Regardless of the knocks on Cielo I have read on this board, the homes themselves are very well made, very plush, and better than what I can find up here for under $5 million. McMansions perhaps, but really well made essentially custom McMansions. I would have no problem owning one. The knock on Cielo is locaiton and relative remoteness, not anything else.

– Part of Cielo may end up as part of Escondido, that is the mystery.

Fairbanks Ranch

– Still my favorite. Great community, great homes, great location (8 min commute in traffic).

Santaluz

– Wow, I must say, I am impressed. After reading some harsh words on this web site about Santaluz I was not expecting much, and then boom, I was very impressed.

– The dessert landscape grew on me.

– The rumors I read about poorly maintained grounds, garbage everywhere, no more guards and patrols, etc were all false.

– The custom homes in my price range were of outstanding quality and styles and finishes.

– House pads on the small size (ie. small back yards), despite the lots being large. Pools are downsized.

– Very convenient commute wise.

Rancho Valencia

– Very nice.

[raptorduck]

Covenant is the original Rancho Santa Fe. The area is covered by some document called “The Protective Covenant” which dictates lot and home and common area characteristics like homeowner associations CC&R’s do. Pursists cosider the covenant the original and “only true” Rancho Santa Fe.

Me, I am with the current trend setters that say 92067 (and Crosby/Bridges) is RSF.

[raptorduck]

Raybyrnes. Coronado is too far. I will be working in Carmel Valley. Plus, I need lots of land and a large home for my budget.

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