Electoral College: the disenfranchisement of Californians

[Anonymous]

[quote=ocrenter]But no one is proposing more rights for more educated Californians. We just want our vote to carry the same weight.[/quote]

The Great Compromise wasn’t based on some greater wisdom about how fair elections should work.

The Great Compromise was just that – a concession made to convince less-populated states to agree to sign up for the new federal government.

The populated states have been paying the cost of that concession for over two centuries.

Of course nobody is forced into it – any of us could move to Wyoming and have our personal legislative influence increase substantially.

But it’s fun to consider renegotiating the deal, since that’s going to be the theme for the next four years.

[Anonymous]

[quote=bearishgurl]Have you any idea how much it costs to heat a drafty rental farmhouse with 12 occupants in Kersey, CO (Weld County) in the dead of winter??[/quote]

I’ll concede that I haven’t seen the February utility bill for a drafty rental farmhouse with 12 occupants in Kersey, CO.

It seems I didn’t prepare enough for this debate.

[ocrenter]

[quote=Hobie][quote]I would argue that a typical silicon valley engineer would be smarter than an oil drill worker in North Dakota.[/quote]

Seriously? The dripping arrogance and elitism of this post makes me ill.

By the way, there is no such thing as an ‘oil drill’.

Another positive vote with the electoral college system as the founding fathers designed and how njtosd correctly expanded upon up thread.

I am humbled by the brilliance of the depth and foresight of our founding fathers.[/quote]

Wait, the founding fathers wanted to grant the uneducated more power? You do realize only property owners were allowed to vote, and chances are non property owners were not educated.

[Coronita]

Ah yes, the classic “populist” versus “others classified as educated elitist” as some would call the later group….

History would tell us when a nation divided people into these two groups, and then pinned them at each other, things did not end up very well…..

There was one notable leader that did this…..

Chairman Mao and his communist party versus all the “scholars” and the famous “Cultural Revolution”….And then the following 40-50 years of no progress in that country….See, the pretty euphemism they give to these “revolutions”?

It’s really ironic that decades later, China provided communism failed and they are a capitalist pig, more so than the U.S. And if you want to talk about wealth inequality, it’s more like the top 0.1% controls 99% of the wealth in that country.
Oh, the irony.

And the reason why china progressed so fast recently? The ruling communist party finally figured out if you put the smartest people in the country in charge, things move much quicker in the right direction. On the other hand, in the absence of democracy, putting really dumb people in charge (like China did in the past)….it would take decades to recover….

Given that, democracy might not be the most efficient way to move a country forward, but I’d like to believe the system is probably still the best system we have out there.

But then again, it somewhat erriely feels we are having our own little Cultural Revolution here….

So let’s start practicing…

Welcome Dear Leader, Mr Trump. No one is smarter than you! You are the divine gift of the Peoples Republic of the United States, Dear Leader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

The Cultural Revolution, formally the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, was a sociopolitical movement that took place in the People’s Republic of China from 1966 until 1976. Set into motion by Mao Zedong, then Chairman of the Communist Party of China, its stated goal was to preserve ‘true’ Communist ideology in the country by purging remnants of capitalist and traditional elements from Chinese society, and to re-impose Maoist thought as the dominant ideology within the Party. The Revolution marked the return of Mao Zedong to a position of power after the Great Leap Forward. The movement paralyzed China politically and negatively affected the country’s economy and society to a significant degree.

The Revolution was launched in May 1966, after Mao alleged that bourgeois elements had infiltrated the government and society at large, aiming to restore capitalism. He insisted that these “revisionists” be removed through violent class struggle. China’s youth responded to Mao’s appeal by forming Red Guard groups around the country. The movement spread into the military, urban workers, and the Communist Party leadership itself. It resulted in widespread factional struggles in all walks of life. In the top leadership, it led to a mass purge of senior officials, most notably Liu Shaoqi and Deng Xiaoping. During the same period Mao’s personality cult grew to immense proportions.

Millions of people were persecuted in the violent struggles that ensued across the country, and suffered a wide range of abuses including public humiliation, arbitrary imprisonment, torture, sustained harassment, and seizure of property. A large segment of the population was forcibly displaced, most notably the transfer of urban youth to rural regions during the Down to the Countryside Movement. Historical relics and artifacts were destroyed. Cultural and religious sites were ransacked.

Mao officially declared the Cultural Revolution to have ended in 1969, but its active phase lasted until the death of the military leader Lin Biao in 1971. After Mao’s death and the arrest of the Gang of Four in 1976, reformers led by Deng Xiaoping gradually began to dismantle the Maoist policies associated with the Cultural Revolution. In 1981, the Party declared that the Cultural Revolution was “responsible for the most severe setback and the heaviest losses suffered by the Party, the country, and the people since the founding of the People’s Republic”.[1]

[flyer]

.

[Coronita]

flyer,

We get it. You’re very wealthy. You don’t need to remind us how rich you are. Some of us aren’t as lucky as you. We actually have to deal with the realities of, well, real life…. If you generally were concerned about the middle class, you could in theory use some of that wealth, voluntarily of course, and create jobs….Just saying…

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=FlyerInHi] . . . The country folks are not affected by immigration, yet they fear it most. We embrace it.[/quote]This is absolutely untrue. Virtually ALL of the agricultural jobs that illegal immigrants take are in the rural areas. The legal citizens in those areas don’t “fear” these people but this immigrant group does often find themselves needing medical care and food/commodity aid and even food and blankets and utility assistance (cost of heat). The local area must bear the cost of this, organize the food and clothing drives and charities to help them.

Have you any idea how much it costs to heat a drafty rental farmhouse with 12 occupants in Kersey, CO (Weld County) in the dead of winter?? That cost is just the tip of the iceberg for Weld County taxpayers, the State of CO and the “Public Service Company of CO.”[/quote]

BG, Colorado voted for Hillary.

I’m talking about the now non existent blue wall states, WI, MI, and western PA.

Edit
I was terse so let me expand. In your examples above, the communities need and welcome the immigrants, at least they farm owners do. So of course the communities should provide for them.

I’m talking about irrational fear and aversion to immigrants, Spanish and the culture they bring.

[flyer]

If the majority of voters, blue and red, really want to worry about something that has an almost 100% chance of destroying their lives, they might want to start with the following. Wonder which party they’ll blame?

“Forget about 62 or 65. More and more Americans are embracing the new reality of retiring at 70 — or later.

Many people look forward to retirement after spending years struggling through the daily grind. Unfortunately, a growing number of Americans may have to wait even longer to make their grand exit from the workforce. Although the average retirement age in the U.S. is just 63, according to a recent study by human resources consulting firm Willis Towers Watson, almost a quarter of Americans believe they won’t be able to retire until age 70 or older. Worse yet, 5% are convinced they’ll never be able to retire at all.

Even workers who plan to retire at 65 aren’t so sure of themselves. Those surveyed admit that, while they’d like to retire at 65, they think there’s a 50% chance they’ll wind up working until 70.

A lot has to do with insufficient savings. With Social Security only designed to replace about 40% of the average American’s pre-retirement income, most of us have to save independently to ensure a reasonably comfortable retirement. Yet an almost frightening one-third of Americans, many of whom are 55 and over, admit to having absolutely no retirement savings whatsoever.

And we’re stressed about it, too
For some people, the idea of working longer may not seem like such a bad thing. Financial benefits aside, studies have shown that working longer can actually lead to better health and a longer life. Yet among those surveyed by Willis Towers Watson, 40% of workers who anticipate retiring after age 70 have higher-than-average stress levels. Along these lines, 40% of workers planning to retire at 70 or later feel stuck in their jobs — ouch.

And it’s not just older workers who feel they’ll have no choice but to postpone retirement. Almost 25% of employees under 30 think they’ll wind up retiring in their 70s or even later. Meanwhile, 28% of workers in their 30s don’t think they’ll retire before 70, and 33% of 40-somethings feel the same way. It paints a pretty bleak picture, especially considering that younger workers still have a good number of years to save.” Fool.com

[flyer]

Not my point, flu. Just trying to put all of the current excessive whining and wailing in perspective, and btw, we do employ many people at the level you mentioned, and they are very appreciative.

[Anonymous]

[quote=ocrenter]
Wait, the founding fathers wanted to grant the uneducated more power? You do realize only property owners were allowed to vote, and chances are non property owners were not educated.[/quote]

Yup.

But the modern conservative mythology of the founders lives on, and even thrives in the media.

The electoral college was only intended to give a nod to the common voter. The design was based on the idea that the common individual was not educated enough to actually make an informed decision – the representatives would make the decision for them.

Every major step of American history toward empowering democracy for individuals was made by liberal movements: the 15th amendment, women’s suffrage, the 26th amendment…

But remember what Rush Limbaugh commands: Anybody who advocates for the rights of someone different than you is an elitist!

[Coronita]

It’s nice to be a rich non-minority in america. No matter how bad it is here, you never get screwed, and you never have to lift a finger. In fact, if there’s any sort of wealth redistribution during trial and tribulation, chances are if you’re in this category, you end up cleaning house, bigtime.

That was my point.

[Anonymous]

[quote=flyer]Not my point, flu. Just trying to put all of the current excessive whining and wailing in perspective, …[/quote]

Flu’s observation is spot-on.

Every post you make here involves some direct or indirect reference to how your financial life is so wonderful.

Nobody here is whining, but you are obviously trying to compensate for something.

Frankly, it’s kinda creepy.

[flyer]

Not that I should have to explain myself, considering many of the posts I’ve read by others on this forum are extremely biased, and–you nailed it–“kinda creepy” in one way or another, but my original post concerned a topic about which, imo, and according to stats, huge numbers of voters should be far more concerned than many of the current topics currently being whined about across the country. That was my point.

The original post had nothing to do with my personal financial situation, but flu asked how I might remedy the situation by employing middle class workers, and I responded that we did.

Sorry to bring up reality.

[Coronita]

There are probably many people who are on this board that aren’t considered what you say are “lucky” and are very much part of the middle class, flyer. I’m pretty sure there are many who actually have to work really hard to put a downpayment together, who have a middle class job, and really do have to put a lot of effort into making payroll, and do really have to worry about a job loss.

And if you multiple a lot of them, and they are angry….People like me probably end up paying for it, whether it’s “Hope and Change” from the left or “Ship them Home” from the right. You, however, most likely get a free pass….So I’m not sure what the point is. Just saying.

[Anonymous]

flyer,

You consistently post the same theme, in every thread.

Let me summarize: “I’m wealthy, born that way but still did everything right. And I make money off Avatar through some mysterious investment vehicle that I can’t talk about. I live a life of leisure but most people will never retire. And did I mention that I live in RSF?”

Sorry to mock you but dude, this thread is about the electoral college.

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