Do you feel the economy getting better?

[Anonymous]

You can’t answer the OP question unless we agree on the definition of ‘better.’

Yup, here I go with “semantics” again. But different semantics lead to completely different answers.

We have different people using different metrics for ‘better.’

Some are fixated on debt. They say the economy can’t be ‘better’ until govt. debt is under control.

Many use unemployment numbers. But employment includes government and military. Cut the government to cut the debt and you have to lay govt. employees off, and that raises unemployment numbers.

Some throw tax rates into the equation. They feel if taxes go up, they have less in their pockets and therefore things are not ‘better.’

We can cut taxes without cutting spending, but that just raises the debt.

Any short-term solution involves some combination of more debt, more taxes, or more unemployment. There’s no way around it. Long term growth could improve all three. But in the short term, there will be no universal agreement on whether things are ‘better.’

[Coronita]

Well, I think we can save some money just by taking the penny out of circulation. It costs 2.4 cents to make a penny

http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/15/news/economy/pennies_nickels/index.htm?hpt=hp_t2

Or maybe we should do just what apple does… Outsource making pennies to Foxconn in China, and they’ll be able make for pennies for 1 cent.

[jstoesz]

Well there is always disability.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/art-cashin-explains-what-happens-those-who-stop-looking-work

[briansd1]

[quote=pri_dk]You can’t answer the OP question unless we agree on the definition of ‘better.’

Yup, here I go with “semantics” again. But different semantics lead to completely different answers.

We have different people using different metrics for ‘better.’

Some are fixated on debt. They say the economy can’t be ‘better’ until govt. debt is under control.

Many use unemployment numbers. But employment includes government and military. Cut the government to cut the debt and you have to lay govt. employees off, and that raises unemployment numbers.

Some throw tax rates into the equation. They feel if taxes go up, they have less in their pockets and therefore things are not ‘better.’

We can cut taxes without cutting spending, but that just raises the debt.

Any short-term solution involves some combination of more debt, more taxes, or more unemployment. There’s no way around it. Long term growth could improve all three. But in the short term, there will be no universal agreement on whether things are ‘better.'[/quote]

Good posts pri_dk. Some people could be fixated on insurance coverage for contraception and might feel that contraception coverage would worsen the economy.

I suppose posters should use their own definition of “better.”

However, commentators are urged to use a more general economic outlook rather than focus on narrow issues.

[sdrealtor]

When I feel good, I buy more wine. I just bought more wine therefore the economy must be better.

[Veritas]

The Unthinkable Is Poised to Happen, Economist Warns

http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/aftershock-financial-wiedemer-economy/2011/08/17/id/407695

Not an endorsement, just a suggestion to read the article for an alternative view on the economy.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Veritas]The Unthinkable Is Poised to Happen, Economist Warns

http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/aftershock-financial-wiedemer-economy/2011/08/17/id/407695

Not an endorsement, just a suggestion to read the article for an alternative view on the economy.[/quote]
That article was written with the point of view of Markmax and all the writing skill of Markmax.

Seriously, its basically a glossy sleeve of a cheesy reactionary best seller.
Lets summarize:
-Its full of dire wake up calls.
-Its not written to scare you.
-But it will totally terrify you.
-If you read it you won’t suffer like all the sheep about to be slaughtered for their stupidity.
-If you read it you might get rich.
-But I assure you this is a news article not an ad.
-So read it. (also its companion roundtable will be on newsmax)

[sdrealtor]

[quote=sdrealtor]When I feel good, I buy more wine. I just bought more wine therefore the economy must be better.[/quote]

To the contrary, when I feel bad I drink the wine I bought. I am about to have a glass so the economy must be getting worse now.

[scaredyclassic]

i seriously need a drink tonight but no alcohol since 9/29/11. the economy is probably stable as long as i don’t drink.

[CA renter]

[quote=no_such_reality]CAR, It just requires a bunch of political sacred cow gorings.

As I’ve stated before, under President Bill Clinton, we’d didn’t suffer from lack of Government services. Start will Bill’s last budget and increase it 3.1% a year on spending.

That means some draconian cuts to things like DOD. The growth in DOD is insane.

At 3.1% funding growth, we end up $80 Billion short on social security.

At 3.6% (the rate of tax revenue growth), we end up $50 Billion short. So we’re going to need to find $50 billion in cuts or taxes. SS needs a goring though, the road is DOA. Future benefits for people currently not retired will need drastic cuts.

Medicaid faces the same challenge as SS.

Homeland security, will have a 60% cut in their budget. A 300% growth since 2001 is nuts. I’ll also say, increase passenger fees to pay for it.

Tax increases, no brainer, the Bush cuts expire.

Every other department will similarly have rollbacks to Clintonian levels which means many will face 20-30% cuts.

Get over it, we can’t grow spending at 6% when the economy grows at 3%.[/quote]

Believe it or not, we’re very much in agreement on most of these things.

[GH]

From the perspective of a small business owner, I am not seeing any improvement at all since the initial crash in 2008. Other small business owners I know have a similar experience.

I do not deny areas of the economy are improving, but my customer base which consists mainly of upper income middle class people are showing a lot of signs of distress.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=walterwhite]i seriously need a drink tonight but no alcohol since 9/29/11. the economy is probably stable as long as i don’t drink.[/quote]
What about weed?
I mean I think you could defend yourself or something if you got busted.

[CA renter]

[quote=GH]From the perspective of a small business owner, I am not seeing any improvement at all since the initial crash in 2008. Other small business owners I know have a similar experience.

I do not deny areas of the economy are improving, but my customer base which consists mainly of upper income middle class people are showing a lot of signs of distress.[/quote]

Just personal observations…it looks to me like the upper-income group fared better in the beginning of the crash, but they are now starting to feel the pain more. Seems like the lower-end has repudiated their debt in many cases, and are beginning to work their way back out of the worst of it.

Anyone else seeing something along these lines…or not?

[briansd1]

CA renter, my personal observation is that upper-middle class folks don’t have easy access to credit as before.

Want to remodel the kitchen, put in a pool or rebuild the backyard? Not so easy to do a stated income home equity withdrawal.

The lenders now seem to be asking for all kinds of documents including:

– Social Security Administration SSN Verification
– Transcript of 1040 tax return.

Lenders didn’t ask that before.

Credit is generally harder to come by. Prices of used cars have gone up because people don’t have cash.

[paramount]

Update from ECRI on the economy – interesting video (late Feb. 2012):

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000075118

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