Congress to lay off 240,000

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
You should also mention the French corporate losers, like Renault or Dassault, showing that governments (including the US, to be fair) pick losers far more than winners.
[/quote]

Good point.

But without an industrial policy, France would have become irrelevant decades ago.

Renault is actually doing very well. They acquired a majority of Nissan and saved it. Did you notice that Nissan cars now a French flair to them?

Notice also that the French have privatized (gasp) utilities such as water treatment (Suez/Lyonnaise) and energy production (Areva). Those corporate giants operate around the world, even in the United States.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Rather than comparing a Frenchman from Avignon with someone from Leeds, UK, why don’t we compare that same Frenchman with someone far closer, meaning a Muslim youth in a French banlieue?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_situation_in_the_French_suburbs

[/quote]

As a fan of architecture, I did visit the banlieues to imagine the vision of the urban planners when they created those satellite cities.

I’ve come to believe that when it comes to urban development, we need both planning (Baron Haussman) and organic growth to build a beautiful livable city.

But yeah, you make a great point that France did a miserable job of integrating immigrants into society. I believe the reason is because the French economy is too dirigiste in favor of the establishment; and newcomers cannot break in and thrive.

In America we have more economic mobility; and we do a much better job of providing economic opportunities for our new immigrants.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Like the US and UK, the French have been “papering over” their situation for decades as well, and the bill is now coming due.
[/quote]

Sure.

However my point when comparing the UK to France was that Anglo-Saxon capitalism doesn’t necessarily result in a better standard of living for the maximum number of “average” citizens.

No doubt, the Anglo-Saxon model generated higher GPD. But in the case of the UK, that greater wealth is held by the aristocrats and the foreign millionaires and billionaires who love to make London home.

The wealth in the UK is concentrated in London and in the hands of the upper class. Little has trickled down to the commoners.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Whether American or European, we’ve all binged on way too much debt and various companies, states and nations essentially wrote present value checks on future value “earnings” and the repo man is here now.[/quote]

That I very much agree with. Debt is simply front loading. If you have to go into debt, it’s better to front load on investments that increase future productive capacity than to front load on ephemeral consumption (which we did for too long).

[gandalf]

Okay, that’s messed up…

Brian and Allan are agreeing on stuff.

Earth’s magnetic field must have switched.

[gandalf]

Okay, that’s messed up…

Brian and Allan are agreeing on stuff.

Earth’s magnetic field must have switched.

[gandalf]

Okay, that’s messed up…

Brian and Allan are agreeing on stuff.

Earth’s magnetic field must have switched.

[gandalf]

Okay, that’s messed up…

Brian and Allan are agreeing on stuff.

Earth’s magnetic field must have switched.

[gandalf]

Okay, that’s messed up…

Brian and Allan are agreeing on stuff.

Earth’s magnetic field must have switched.

[briansd1]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=”Allan’]I’m tired of the same old tired rhetoric that conflates conservatism with born-again Christianity (another group I have significant issues with)[/quote]

I’m tired of it too Allan…but the situation is not that simple.

The “conflating” of conservatism with hard-right Christianity comes from the right these days as much as it does from the left.

Not everyone from the right, but those with the most power and the loudest voice. Look how Limbaugh reacted to criticism of Christine O’Donnell (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/limbaugh-slams-rove-odonnell/) Any attempt to moderate the hard-right is squashed by the de-facto leadership of the party.

I would be very happy to see the day when the conservative media reflects the voice of the Allan from Fallbrooks of the world.

But today we have Glen Beck telling us to “Pray on It.”

I believe that the right *has* been overwhelmed by the “Bible-thumpers” – not just because the left is presenting it that way – but because the power on the right wants it that way. It has led them to great success, so it will continue.

The only folks that can fix this problem are the reasonable and sane folks on the right – they have to call BS on this nonsense.

So it’s up to you, my friend.

Care to run for office? My checkbook is open…[/quote]

Interesting result of a poll:

A new poll shows that half of those who consider themselves part of the tea party movement also identify as part of the religious right, reflecting the complex – and sometimes contradictory – blend of bedfellows in the American conservative movement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/05/AR2010100501491.html

[briansd1]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=”Allan’]I’m tired of the same old tired rhetoric that conflates conservatism with born-again Christianity (another group I have significant issues with)[/quote]

I’m tired of it too Allan…but the situation is not that simple.

The “conflating” of conservatism with hard-right Christianity comes from the right these days as much as it does from the left.

Not everyone from the right, but those with the most power and the loudest voice. Look how Limbaugh reacted to criticism of Christine O’Donnell (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/limbaugh-slams-rove-odonnell/) Any attempt to moderate the hard-right is squashed by the de-facto leadership of the party.

I would be very happy to see the day when the conservative media reflects the voice of the Allan from Fallbrooks of the world.

But today we have Glen Beck telling us to “Pray on It.”

I believe that the right *has* been overwhelmed by the “Bible-thumpers” – not just because the left is presenting it that way – but because the power on the right wants it that way. It has led them to great success, so it will continue.

The only folks that can fix this problem are the reasonable and sane folks on the right – they have to call BS on this nonsense.

So it’s up to you, my friend.

Care to run for office? My checkbook is open…[/quote]

Interesting result of a poll:

A new poll shows that half of those who consider themselves part of the tea party movement also identify as part of the religious right, reflecting the complex – and sometimes contradictory – blend of bedfellows in the American conservative movement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/05/AR2010100501491.html

[briansd1]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=”Allan’]I’m tired of the same old tired rhetoric that conflates conservatism with born-again Christianity (another group I have significant issues with)[/quote]

I’m tired of it too Allan…but the situation is not that simple.

The “conflating” of conservatism with hard-right Christianity comes from the right these days as much as it does from the left.

Not everyone from the right, but those with the most power and the loudest voice. Look how Limbaugh reacted to criticism of Christine O’Donnell (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/limbaugh-slams-rove-odonnell/) Any attempt to moderate the hard-right is squashed by the de-facto leadership of the party.

I would be very happy to see the day when the conservative media reflects the voice of the Allan from Fallbrooks of the world.

But today we have Glen Beck telling us to “Pray on It.”

I believe that the right *has* been overwhelmed by the “Bible-thumpers” – not just because the left is presenting it that way – but because the power on the right wants it that way. It has led them to great success, so it will continue.

The only folks that can fix this problem are the reasonable and sane folks on the right – they have to call BS on this nonsense.

So it’s up to you, my friend.

Care to run for office? My checkbook is open…[/quote]

Interesting result of a poll:

A new poll shows that half of those who consider themselves part of the tea party movement also identify as part of the religious right, reflecting the complex – and sometimes contradictory – blend of bedfellows in the American conservative movement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/05/AR2010100501491.html

[briansd1]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=”Allan’]I’m tired of the same old tired rhetoric that conflates conservatism with born-again Christianity (another group I have significant issues with)[/quote]

I’m tired of it too Allan…but the situation is not that simple.

The “conflating” of conservatism with hard-right Christianity comes from the right these days as much as it does from the left.

Not everyone from the right, but those with the most power and the loudest voice. Look how Limbaugh reacted to criticism of Christine O’Donnell (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/limbaugh-slams-rove-odonnell/) Any attempt to moderate the hard-right is squashed by the de-facto leadership of the party.

I would be very happy to see the day when the conservative media reflects the voice of the Allan from Fallbrooks of the world.

But today we have Glen Beck telling us to “Pray on It.”

I believe that the right *has* been overwhelmed by the “Bible-thumpers” – not just because the left is presenting it that way – but because the power on the right wants it that way. It has led them to great success, so it will continue.

The only folks that can fix this problem are the reasonable and sane folks on the right – they have to call BS on this nonsense.

So it’s up to you, my friend.

Care to run for office? My checkbook is open…[/quote]

Interesting result of a poll:

A new poll shows that half of those who consider themselves part of the tea party movement also identify as part of the religious right, reflecting the complex – and sometimes contradictory – blend of bedfellows in the American conservative movement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/05/AR2010100501491.html

[briansd1]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=”Allan’]I’m tired of the same old tired rhetoric that conflates conservatism with born-again Christianity (another group I have significant issues with)[/quote]

I’m tired of it too Allan…but the situation is not that simple.

The “conflating” of conservatism with hard-right Christianity comes from the right these days as much as it does from the left.

Not everyone from the right, but those with the most power and the loudest voice. Look how Limbaugh reacted to criticism of Christine O’Donnell (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/limbaugh-slams-rove-odonnell/) Any attempt to moderate the hard-right is squashed by the de-facto leadership of the party.

I would be very happy to see the day when the conservative media reflects the voice of the Allan from Fallbrooks of the world.

But today we have Glen Beck telling us to “Pray on It.”

I believe that the right *has* been overwhelmed by the “Bible-thumpers” – not just because the left is presenting it that way – but because the power on the right wants it that way. It has led them to great success, so it will continue.

The only folks that can fix this problem are the reasonable and sane folks on the right – they have to call BS on this nonsense.

So it’s up to you, my friend.

Care to run for office? My checkbook is open…[/quote]

Interesting result of a poll:

A new poll shows that half of those who consider themselves part of the tea party movement also identify as part of the religious right, reflecting the complex – and sometimes contradictory – blend of bedfellows in the American conservative movement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/05/AR2010100501491.html

[ucodegen]

[quote briansd1]
A new poll shows that half of those who consider themselves part of the tea party movement also identify as part of the religious right, …
[/quote]
Yawn.. Even odds on two choices is 50% or half. The other way to read the statement is;

“half of those who consider themselves part of the tea party movement don’t identify as part of the religious right”

You conveniently forgot about the other ‘half’.. You also forgot about other quotes.. ie:

Members of the tea party, including Christian conservatives, he said, would generally think George Bush’s use of government money to subsidize faith-based institutions “was the wrong direction.” They also might have a strong personal opposition to same-sex marriage, he said, but believe banning gay marriage “is not a role for the federal government.”

From same article.

[ucodegen]

[quote briansd1]
A new poll shows that half of those who consider themselves part of the tea party movement also identify as part of the religious right, …
[/quote]
Yawn.. Even odds on two choices is 50% or half. The other way to read the statement is;

“half of those who consider themselves part of the tea party movement don’t identify as part of the religious right”

You conveniently forgot about the other ‘half’.. You also forgot about other quotes.. ie:

Members of the tea party, including Christian conservatives, he said, would generally think George Bush’s use of government money to subsidize faith-based institutions “was the wrong direction.” They also might have a strong personal opposition to same-sex marriage, he said, but believe banning gay marriage “is not a role for the federal government.”

From same article.

[ucodegen]

[quote briansd1]
A new poll shows that half of those who consider themselves part of the tea party movement also identify as part of the religious right, …
[/quote]
Yawn.. Even odds on two choices is 50% or half. The other way to read the statement is;

“half of those who consider themselves part of the tea party movement don’t identify as part of the religious right”

You conveniently forgot about the other ‘half’.. You also forgot about other quotes.. ie:

Members of the tea party, including Christian conservatives, he said, would generally think George Bush’s use of government money to subsidize faith-based institutions “was the wrong direction.” They also might have a strong personal opposition to same-sex marriage, he said, but believe banning gay marriage “is not a role for the federal government.”

From same article.

[ucodegen]

[quote briansd1]
A new poll shows that half of those who consider themselves part of the tea party movement also identify as part of the religious right, …
[/quote]
Yawn.. Even odds on two choices is 50% or half. The other way to read the statement is;

“half of those who consider themselves part of the tea party movement don’t identify as part of the religious right”

You conveniently forgot about the other ‘half’.. You also forgot about other quotes.. ie:

Members of the tea party, including Christian conservatives, he said, would generally think George Bush’s use of government money to subsidize faith-based institutions “was the wrong direction.” They also might have a strong personal opposition to same-sex marriage, he said, but believe banning gay marriage “is not a role for the federal government.”

From same article.

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