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urbanrealtor.
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February 14, 2011 at 2:36 PM #667405February 14, 2011 at 2:37 PM #666271
Allan from Fallbrook
ParticipantBrian: Let’s at least agree that citing Wikipedia doesn’t constitute any sort of meaningful rejoinder, okay?
You’re always asking for book titles, right? The American Civil War is one of my favorite topics, and I actually walked the Gettysburg battlefield over a three day period (following the actual battle itself) during a Command and Leadership course in War College at Carlisle, PA.
I’ve heard you opine before that Southern rank-and-file were fighting against their interests and supporting elite land-owners and slaveholders. That is actually not true, and McPherson’s “For Cause and Comrades” does an excellent job of debunking that. http://www.amazon.com/Cause-Comrades-Why-Fought-Civil/dp/0195124995/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297724246&sr=8-1
On the causes and lead-up to the Civil War, Klein’s “Days of Defiance” is a good, single-volume handling of the topic, including the actual importance of slavery on both sides. http://www.amazon.com/Days-Defiance-Sumter-Secession-Coming/dp/0679768823/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297724324&sr=1-1
And the best single volume I’ve read so far on the overall war itself: Hattaway and Jones’ “How the North Won”. http://www.amazon.com/How-North-Won-Military-History/dp/0252062108/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297724430&sr=1-1
As far as Lincoln and context go: Lincoln handled the slavery issue only we had no other choice, which is why the Emancipation Proclamation wasn’t signed until 1863. His entire focus was on maintaining the Union and at any cost necessary. Hence my irritation with my son’s 7th grade teacher giving the Gettysburg Address and its importance such short shrift.
And, for the record, I believe everything Obama says. I just don’t understand it.
February 14, 2011 at 2:37 PM #666332ParticipantBrian: Let’s at least agree that citing Wikipedia doesn’t constitute any sort of meaningful rejoinder, okay?
You’re always asking for book titles, right? The American Civil War is one of my favorite topics, and I actually walked the Gettysburg battlefield over a three day period (following the actual battle itself) during a Command and Leadership course in War College at Carlisle, PA.
I’ve heard you opine before that Southern rank-and-file were fighting against their interests and supporting elite land-owners and slaveholders. That is actually not true, and McPherson’s “For Cause and Comrades” does an excellent job of debunking that. http://www.amazon.com/Cause-Comrades-Why-Fought-Civil/dp/0195124995/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297724246&sr=8-1
On the causes and lead-up to the Civil War, Klein’s “Days of Defiance” is a good, single-volume handling of the topic, including the actual importance of slavery on both sides. http://www.amazon.com/Days-Defiance-Sumter-Secession-Coming/dp/0679768823/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297724324&sr=1-1
And the best single volume I’ve read so far on the overall war itself: Hattaway and Jones’ “How the North Won”. http://www.amazon.com/How-North-Won-Military-History/dp/0252062108/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297724430&sr=1-1
As far as Lincoln and context go: Lincoln handled the slavery issue only we had no other choice, which is why the Emancipation Proclamation wasn’t signed until 1863. His entire focus was on maintaining the Union and at any cost necessary. Hence my irritation with my son’s 7th grade teacher giving the Gettysburg Address and its importance such short shrift.
And, for the record, I believe everything Obama says. I just don’t understand it.
February 14, 2011 at 2:37 PM #666935ParticipantBrian: Let’s at least agree that citing Wikipedia doesn’t constitute any sort of meaningful rejoinder, okay?
You’re always asking for book titles, right? The American Civil War is one of my favorite topics, and I actually walked the Gettysburg battlefield over a three day period (following the actual battle itself) during a Command and Leadership course in War College at Carlisle, PA.
I’ve heard you opine before that Southern rank-and-file were fighting against their interests and supporting elite land-owners and slaveholders. That is actually not true, and McPherson’s “For Cause and Comrades” does an excellent job of debunking that. http://www.amazon.com/Cause-Comrades-Why-Fought-Civil/dp/0195124995/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297724246&sr=8-1
On the causes and lead-up to the Civil War, Klein’s “Days of Defiance” is a good, single-volume handling of the topic, including the actual importance of slavery on both sides. http://www.amazon.com/Days-Defiance-Sumter-Secession-Coming/dp/0679768823/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297724324&sr=1-1
And the best single volume I’ve read so far on the overall war itself: Hattaway and Jones’ “How the North Won”. http://www.amazon.com/How-North-Won-Military-History/dp/0252062108/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297724430&sr=1-1
As far as Lincoln and context go: Lincoln handled the slavery issue only we had no other choice, which is why the Emancipation Proclamation wasn’t signed until 1863. His entire focus was on maintaining the Union and at any cost necessary. Hence my irritation with my son’s 7th grade teacher giving the Gettysburg Address and its importance such short shrift.
And, for the record, I believe everything Obama says. I just don’t understand it.
February 14, 2011 at 2:37 PM #667074ParticipantBrian: Let’s at least agree that citing Wikipedia doesn’t constitute any sort of meaningful rejoinder, okay?
You’re always asking for book titles, right? The American Civil War is one of my favorite topics, and I actually walked the Gettysburg battlefield over a three day period (following the actual battle itself) during a Command and Leadership course in War College at Carlisle, PA.
I’ve heard you opine before that Southern rank-and-file were fighting against their interests and supporting elite land-owners and slaveholders. That is actually not true, and McPherson’s “For Cause and Comrades” does an excellent job of debunking that. http://www.amazon.com/Cause-Comrades-Why-Fought-Civil/dp/0195124995/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297724246&sr=8-1
On the causes and lead-up to the Civil War, Klein’s “Days of Defiance” is a good, single-volume handling of the topic, including the actual importance of slavery on both sides. http://www.amazon.com/Days-Defiance-Sumter-Secession-Coming/dp/0679768823/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297724324&sr=1-1
And the best single volume I’ve read so far on the overall war itself: Hattaway and Jones’ “How the North Won”. http://www.amazon.com/How-North-Won-Military-History/dp/0252062108/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297724430&sr=1-1
As far as Lincoln and context go: Lincoln handled the slavery issue only we had no other choice, which is why the Emancipation Proclamation wasn’t signed until 1863. His entire focus was on maintaining the Union and at any cost necessary. Hence my irritation with my son’s 7th grade teacher giving the Gettysburg Address and its importance such short shrift.
And, for the record, I believe everything Obama says. I just don’t understand it.
February 14, 2011 at 2:37 PM #667410ParticipantBrian: Let’s at least agree that citing Wikipedia doesn’t constitute any sort of meaningful rejoinder, okay?
You’re always asking for book titles, right? The American Civil War is one of my favorite topics, and I actually walked the Gettysburg battlefield over a three day period (following the actual battle itself) during a Command and Leadership course in War College at Carlisle, PA.
I’ve heard you opine before that Southern rank-and-file were fighting against their interests and supporting elite land-owners and slaveholders. That is actually not true, and McPherson’s “For Cause and Comrades” does an excellent job of debunking that. http://www.amazon.com/Cause-Comrades-Why-Fought-Civil/dp/0195124995/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1297724246&sr=8-1
On the causes and lead-up to the Civil War, Klein’s “Days of Defiance” is a good, single-volume handling of the topic, including the actual importance of slavery on both sides. http://www.amazon.com/Days-Defiance-Sumter-Secession-Coming/dp/0679768823/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297724324&sr=1-1
And the best single volume I’ve read so far on the overall war itself: Hattaway and Jones’ “How the North Won”. http://www.amazon.com/How-North-Won-Military-History/dp/0252062108/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297724430&sr=1-1
As far as Lincoln and context go: Lincoln handled the slavery issue only we had no other choice, which is why the Emancipation Proclamation wasn’t signed until 1863. His entire focus was on maintaining the Union and at any cost necessary. Hence my irritation with my son’s 7th grade teacher giving the Gettysburg Address and its importance such short shrift.
And, for the record, I believe everything Obama says. I just don’t understand it.
February 14, 2011 at 2:41 PM #666285Participant[quote=pri_dk]
I just hope the next generation is educated enough that they will be able to understand the debate.[/quote]Pri: I couldn’t agree more.
February 14, 2011 at 2:41 PM #666346Participant[quote=pri_dk]
I just hope the next generation is educated enough that they will be able to understand the debate.[/quote]Pri: I couldn’t agree more.
February 14, 2011 at 2:41 PM #666950Participant[quote=pri_dk]
I just hope the next generation is educated enough that they will be able to understand the debate.[/quote]Pri: I couldn’t agree more.
February 14, 2011 at 2:41 PM #667088Participant[quote=pri_dk]
I just hope the next generation is educated enough that they will be able to understand the debate.[/quote]Pri: I couldn’t agree more.
February 14, 2011 at 2:41 PM #667425Participant[quote=pri_dk]
I just hope the next generation is educated enough that they will be able to understand the debate.[/quote]Pri: I couldn’t agree more.
February 14, 2011 at 2:54 PM #666294Participant[quote=briansd1]
It seems to me like many Americans now are so ashamed of the history of slavery that they want to argue that it was not about slavery but about states rights.[/quote]Brian: It doesn’t have anything to do with being ashamed of slavery. It has to do with the causes (note the plural) of the war, of which slavery was only one (but NOT the most important one).
And, yeah, State’s Rights were definitely in there (which, if you read “For Cause and Comrades”, you’ll see). Many Northern soldiers were as racist as their Southern counterparts, and, for this reason, the anti-slavery rationale for the war was played down by Union Army officers. While there were all-black units on the Union side, there were no black officers (the units were commanded by white officers) and most were not used in any meaningful fashion (with the exception of the 54th Massachusetts (seen in the movie “Glory”), which saw considerable action before being slaughtered in a pointless assault on an impregnable Southern citadel, Fort Wagner).
February 14, 2011 at 2:54 PM #666356Participant[quote=briansd1]
It seems to me like many Americans now are so ashamed of the history of slavery that they want to argue that it was not about slavery but about states rights.[/quote]Brian: It doesn’t have anything to do with being ashamed of slavery. It has to do with the causes (note the plural) of the war, of which slavery was only one (but NOT the most important one).
And, yeah, State’s Rights were definitely in there (which, if you read “For Cause and Comrades”, you’ll see). Many Northern soldiers were as racist as their Southern counterparts, and, for this reason, the anti-slavery rationale for the war was played down by Union Army officers. While there were all-black units on the Union side, there were no black officers (the units were commanded by white officers) and most were not used in any meaningful fashion (with the exception of the 54th Massachusetts (seen in the movie “Glory”), which saw considerable action before being slaughtered in a pointless assault on an impregnable Southern citadel, Fort Wagner).
February 14, 2011 at 2:54 PM #666960Participant[quote=briansd1]
It seems to me like many Americans now are so ashamed of the history of slavery that they want to argue that it was not about slavery but about states rights.[/quote]Brian: It doesn’t have anything to do with being ashamed of slavery. It has to do with the causes (note the plural) of the war, of which slavery was only one (but NOT the most important one).
And, yeah, State’s Rights were definitely in there (which, if you read “For Cause and Comrades”, you’ll see). Many Northern soldiers were as racist as their Southern counterparts, and, for this reason, the anti-slavery rationale for the war was played down by Union Army officers. While there were all-black units on the Union side, there were no black officers (the units were commanded by white officers) and most were not used in any meaningful fashion (with the exception of the 54th Massachusetts (seen in the movie “Glory”), which saw considerable action before being slaughtered in a pointless assault on an impregnable Southern citadel, Fort Wagner).
February 14, 2011 at 2:54 PM #667098Participant[quote=briansd1]
It seems to me like many Americans now are so ashamed of the history of slavery that they want to argue that it was not about slavery but about states rights.[/quote]Brian: It doesn’t have anything to do with being ashamed of slavery. It has to do with the causes (note the plural) of the war, of which slavery was only one (but NOT the most important one).
And, yeah, State’s Rights were definitely in there (which, if you read “For Cause and Comrades”, you’ll see). Many Northern soldiers were as racist as their Southern counterparts, and, for this reason, the anti-slavery rationale for the war was played down by Union Army officers. While there were all-black units on the Union side, there were no black officers (the units were commanded by white officers) and most were not used in any meaningful fashion (with the exception of the 54th Massachusetts (seen in the movie “Glory”), which saw considerable action before being slaughtered in a pointless assault on an impregnable Southern citadel, Fort Wagner).
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