Civil Unions

[Anonymous]

The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a small national medical association of licensed pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States that hold social conservative positions. The College was founded in 2002, out of protest against the mainstream American Academy of Pediatrics support for LGBT parental rights. The College states that allowing LGBT adoption is “dangerously irresponsible”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_College_of_Pediatricians

Just so you know who you are quoting.

[Anonymous]

This is from the mainstream American Academy of Pediatrics (“AAP”) Most American pediatricians are members of this physician-focused organization.

http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;109/2/341

“Children born to and raised by lesbian couples also seem to develop normally in every way. Ratings by their mothers and teachers have demonstrated children’s social competence and the prevalence of behavioral difficulties to be comparable with population norms.8,24 In fact, growing up with parents who are lesbian or gay may confer some advantages to children. They have been described as more tolerant of diversity and more nurturing toward younger children than children whose parents are heterosexual.25,26

In 1 study, children of heterosexual parents saw themselves as being somewhat more aggressive than did children of lesbians, and they were seen by parents and teachers as more bossy, negative, and domineering. Children of lesbian parents saw themselves as more lovable and were seen by parents and teachers as more affectionate, responsive, and protective of younger children, compared with children of heterosexual parents.25,27 In a more recent investigation, children of lesbian parents reported their self-esteem to be similar to that of children of heterosexual parents and saw themselves as similar in aggressiveness and sociability.15

Recent investigations have attempted to discern factors that promote optimal well-being of children who have lesbian parents. The adjustment of children who have 2 mothers seems to be related to their parents’ satisfaction with their relationship and specifically with the division of responsibility they have worked out with regard to child care and household chores.28 Children with lesbian parents who reported greater relationship satisfaction, more egalitarian division of household and paid labor,29 and more regular contact with grandparents and other relatives30 were rated by parents and teachers to be better adjusted and to have fewer behavioral problems. ”

[Anonymous]

Uhhh, KJM, I knew who I was quoting; note my comparison to other neutral names for ‘front’ organizations.

Nevertheless, the citations, data, and logic in both of my links appear reasonable and defensible, at least to me.

Balls in your court, Anne C. Dote.

Oh, you complained about having to pay $5-10K more in taxes annually because of lack of tax recognition for same sex marriage. I pay $43K in tuition annually ($24K for my daughter and $19K for my son) to provide the best education in town for my children, in seventh and sixth grade, respectively. I do that in part to avoid the public school agenda of promoting ‘alternative lifestyles.’ The $43K is not tax deductible. You call your ‘tax’ the ‘Gay Family Penalty Tax.’ I call my tax the ‘The Christian Education Tax.’

Yep, there’s a price to pay for the choices that we make.

[Anonymous]

Agreed. There is always a price for the choices we make. Always.

Hope you don’t see it as a wasted investment if one of your children comes out as a homosexual in the future. 🙂

[Anonymous]

I’ll love my children no matter what. We’ll have spirited and heated discussions, though, about choices that they make.

And, at the right time, I’ll be prepared to go ‘nuclear’: disowning (that’s a running joke at our house, along with the kids threatening to ‘fire me from the family’).

[Anonymous]

It sounds like you have a good relationship with your kids. It important for me that my kids understand that my opinions are well-considered, and that they understand my values.

There just isn’t anything that my kids could choose to do that would make me not want to be a part of their lives.
Those are my family values.

[Anonymous]

So, the public policy question remains: do the benefits of same sex parenting that you point out — more tolerant, more nurturing, seeing themselves as less bossy and more loving, that if their parents are okay their parents and teachers see them as okay — offset the costs — 50X higher incidence of incest, earlier/higher rates of sex for daughters, higher in home violence, etc. — that my references point out?

I think it’s clear, looking at the data, that raising children in a same sex parent household is a bad, bad idea. It may be ‘rewarding’ for the parents, but it exposes the children to horrid risks.

[poorgradstudent]

jg, the links you posted largely use apples to oranges comparisons.

The first pretty clearly states at the top that data on homosexual parenting is largely incomplete and spotty. The reality is that there just isn’t enough long term evidence to know for sure if there are any effects, especially once you control for other variables.

Promiscuity has nothing to do with one’s ability to parent.

Comparing legally married heterosexuals and all homosexual couples is ridiculous. I’m 28, heterosexual, never married, and my average relationship has been less than 2 years. A far fairer comparison would be of all heterosexual relationships and homosexual relationships, but that wouldn’t futher the agenda.

The rates of abuse in lesbian relationships cited is comparable to those in heterosexual couples.

Mental health issues for homosexuals is a huge issue in this country. It’s pretty clear that the depression, substance abuse and suicide are largely caused by being part of an oppressed minority.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know of any data that says depression, suicide, etc. in homosexuals is caused by ‘hostile environment.’

Homosexuals are different, physically. MRIs of the brain are proving that today, and I vaguely remember that blood testosterone levels in male homosexuals are, on average, higher than in male heterosexuals.

The higher rates of depression, substance abuse, and suicide in homosexuals may reflect the underlying physiological differences between them and heterosexuals.

The interesting question is, given that homosexuality doesn’t result in offspring, why has it survived, genetically? A neat, insightful fellow — Marvin Harris — hypothesized that homosexuality survives genetically because homosexuals aid in the raising of their siblings’ families, conferring a survival advantage to those children, and ensuring that the (recessive?) genes for homosexuality are passed on through those nieces and nephews.

Oh, by the way, promiscuous parents make lousy parents. If you need data, I’ll get it for you, but folks who are bed hoppers pay less attention to their kids and are more apt to have broken marriages. You’ll learn these things as you age, son.

[Anonymous]

Sigh, you win.

I guess there’s nothing left to do other than molest my children and kill myself.

This site just isn’t worth this shit.

[PerryChase]

Don’t despair, kritinejm. I’m sure jg is alright but just a little blinded by his conservatism. Everyone knows that gays are just as good as straights. Our laws and institutions need to catch up to where society is at.

[startingout]

The interesting question is, given that homosexuality doesn’t result in offspring, why has it survived, genetically?
My husband’s family are farmers (cattle and sheep primarily), and he has pointed out to me that homosexual behavior is quite common among the animal kingdom. He also said he doesn’t believe that the animals that exhibited homosexual behavior helped to raise any other’s offspring, so I’m not too sure about that hypothesis.

Also, the research regarding whether the homosexual brain is different from the heterosexual brain is still in the early stages, and at this point there is not enough evidence to say conclusively that they are physically different.

A personal hypothesis of mine (which I will make clear is not based on any research, I merely think it could be an interesting point), is that homosexuality could be nature’s population control. In the animal kingdom, an excessively large population of species in a certain habitat can be harmful to that species (limited resources, etc.), and it could be that having a few homosexual individuals within the population that do not have offspring is a way to stem the population tide, so to speak.

My views: Yes to civil unions
Yes to adoption by a LGBT couple or individual
Yes to stem cell research

[PerryChase]

I read once that there is no gay gene. Any combination of genes can result in homosexuality. We just don’t know what the combinations are. That’s why homosexuality persists and thrives even if gays don’t reproduce.

I think it’s also psychological. Sex for reproduction and raw sexual attraction is one thing; but one can have an affinity for one’s same sex without sexual desires. There also are as many gay types as there are straight types. They maybe your neighbors, friends, relatives, coworkers, politicians or religious leaders.

Sex is so taboo in our society that we’re afraid to talk about it. It’s a natural part of life so what’s the big deal? I’m hetero but I have had gay sex. Intimacy between two individuals is satisfying on many levels. It’s nothing to be ashamed of. There, I said it.

So long as people are responsible and productive, they should all be treated fairly and equally.

[rankandfile]

There should not be government incentives for marriage. Since there are, they should also be allowed for all people who decide to form a civil union in the eyes of the government.

With that said, I personally do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle. I feel that it is a choice and not something we are born with. I would love my child if they decided to go down the homosexual path, but I would not approve of it.

The best analogy that I can relate this to are those of a drug addict. If my son had a drug problem, I would still love him but I would not be happy about his situation. This is not to say that I am not tolerant of the homosexual lifestyle. However, there are many people in this world who feel that it is a sin and unnatural to partake in homosexual intercourse. I don’t mind that people do what they want behind closed doors. However, I personally feel there is a gay agenda and that it is marketed like any other product or lifestyle that is trying to increase membership. How would you feel if there was a Heroin Addict float in the Rose Parade with a bunch of druggies walking down the street marketing and promoting the heroin lifestyle? On the one hand you want to be tolerant, but on the other you feel like it’s being shoved down your throat.

[lostkitty]

I have to agree with the “you feel like it’s being shoved down your throat.” Comment. (No pun intended.)

Recently I was very sick for a large number of days (six LONG weeks, but who’s counting?). I checked out a bunch of movies, and ALL of them had some sort of heavy gay story-line. Only one of them advertised it ahead of time. I am not against homosexuality, but this is just getting to be too much in the movies/tv shows.

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