Are you listening California….Idaho running surplus for second straight year!

[briansd1]

Allan, I’ll admit that often times, I’m less interested in serious debate than in pushing back against the riled-up Fox News adherents.

About your point on knowing better, don’t you think that well-educated people who study the issues, and the reporters who follow stories for years, actually do know better?

Conservatives used to hold experts and intellectuals in high regard. But now, education is elitist and dirty in American politics. What a change from 50 years ago.

Allan, I think that you’re just as guilty of the dishonesty you accuse me of. For example, you pointed to clip of Jeremiah Wright as a reason Obama is unfit to be president. I could likewise point to a number of crazy religious influences on the current crop of Republican candidates.

I think that there is a huge qualitative difference between NYT, HuffPo and Fox. On Fox, they are always yelling and screaming. Is that kind of vulgar, riled-up, angry attitude really representative of conservative values?

The right has become really good at using sound-bites and headlines to rile-up people. I’m actually jealous of how effective right-wing news and talk-shows have become. To even out the field, I think that the left should fight fire with fire. At this point, intellectual persuasion and dialogue are futile.

I’m sorry, but if you want honest debate, then you need to start at home and work on telling your side to propose honest, workable solutions to our problems.

edit:
On the authoritarian and patronizing ways of dealing with certain folks, I always thought that conservatives liked it tough: “just say no”, “zero tolerance”, “just nuke it”, death penalty, cut off benefits, 3-strikes and you’re out, etc…

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1]Allan, I’ll admit that often times, I’m less interested in serious debate than in pushing back against the riled-up Fox News adherents.

About your point on knowing better, don’t you think that well-educated people who study the issues, and the reporters who follow stories for years, actually do know better?

Conservatives used to hold experts and intellectuals in high regard. But now, education is elitist and dirty in American politics. What a change from 50 years ago.

Allan, I think that you’re just as guilty of the dishonesty you accuse me of. For example, you pointed to clip of Jeremiah Wright as a reason Obama is unfit to be president. I could likewise point to a number of crazy religious influences on the current crop of Republican candidates.

I think that there is a huge qualitative difference between NYT, HuffPo and Fox. On Fox, they are always yelling and screaming. Is that kind of vulgar, riled-up, angry attitude really representative of conservative values?

The right has become really good at using sound-bites and headlines to rile-up people. I’m actually jealous of how effective right-wing news and talk-shows have become. To even out the field, I think that the left should fight fire with fire. At this point, intellectual persuasion and dialogue are futile.

I’m sorry, but if you want honest debate, then you need to start at home and work on telling your side to propose honest, workable solutions to our problems.

edit:
On the authoritarian and patronizing ways of dealing with certain folks, I always thought that conservatives liked it tough: “just say no”, “zero tolerance”, “just nuke it”, death penalty, cut off benefits, 3-strikes and you’re out, etc…[/quote]

Brian: I’ll start off by saying that you do have a point relative to hypocrisy and, yup, I’m guilty of that on occasion.

However, you then segue into “strawman” land with various false equivalences. My not reading the NYT does NOT mean I’m consuming any of the shit that Fox puts out. And, “my side”? Which “side”, exactly, is that?

The most important question you posed was regarding “well-educated” people. This presupposes two things: First, conservatives (as opposed to Right-wingers) are NOT well-educated, and second, that those self-same well-educated people (and I’m assuming you mean Liberals and Leftists) are better able to guide the country.

Based on that, Brian, let me ask you: How well do you think they’re doing? Your “side”, that is? Honestly, now. Because I can make a very compelling argument that they are not doing so well. And I’m going to include an article from today’s NYT to support that contention. The centrist NYT, right?

Bluntly stated, I’d cheerfully trade know-how and business acumen for intellectual horsepower. Your point regarding the more collegial days past of 50 years ago is well taken. But the frothing-at-the-mouth rabidity of today’s politics is not confined to the Reactionary Right. If you’re being honest and not hypocritical, simply recall BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) and how that manifested itself on the Looney Left.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1]Allan, I’ll admit that often times, I’m less interested in serious debate than in pushing back against the riled-up Fox News adherents.

About your point on knowing better, don’t you think that well-educated people who study the issues, and the reporters who follow stories for years, actually do know better?

Conservatives used to hold experts and intellectuals in high regard. But now, education is elitist and dirty in American politics. What a change from 50 years ago.

Allan, I think that you’re just as guilty of the dishonesty you accuse me of. For example, you pointed to clip of Jeremiah Wright as a reason Obama is unfit to be president. I could likewise point to a number of crazy religious influences on the current crop of Republican candidates.

I think that there is a huge qualitative difference between NYT, HuffPo and Fox. On Fox, they are always yelling and screaming. Is that kind of vulgar, riled-up, angry attitude really representative of conservative values?

The right has become really good at using sound-bites and headlines to rile-up people. I’m actually jealous of how effective right-wing news and talk-shows have become. To even out the field, I think that the left should fight fire with fire. At this point, intellectual persuasion and dialogue are futile.

I’m sorry, but if you want honest debate, then you need to start at home and work on telling your side to propose honest, workable solutions to our problems.

edit:
On the authoritarian and patronizing ways of dealing with certain folks, I always thought that conservatives liked it tough: “just say no”, “zero tolerance”, “just nuke it”, death penalty, cut off benefits, 3-strikes and you’re out, etc…[/quote]

Brian: I’ll start off by saying that you do have a point relative to hypocrisy and, yup, I’m guilty of that on occasion.

However, you then segue into “strawman” land with various false equivalences. My not reading the NYT does NOT mean I’m consuming any of the shit that Fox puts out. And, “my side”? Which “side”, exactly, is that?

The most important question you posed was regarding “well-educated” people. This presupposes two things: First, conservatives (as opposed to Right-wingers) are NOT well-educated, and second, that those self-same well-educated people (and I’m assuming you mean Liberals and Leftists) are better able to guide the country.

Based on that, Brian, let me ask you: How well do you think they’re doing? Your “side”, that is? Honestly, now. Because I can make a very compelling argument that they are not doing so well. And I’m going to include an article from today’s NYT to support that contention. The centrist NYT, right?

Bluntly stated, I’d cheerfully trade know-how and business acumen for intellectual horsepower. Your point regarding the more collegial days past of 50 years ago is well taken. But the frothing-at-the-mouth rabidity of today’s politics is not confined to the Reactionary Right. If you’re being honest and not hypocritical, simply recall BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) and how that manifested itself on the Looney Left.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1]Allan, I’ll admit that often times, I’m less interested in serious debate than in pushing back against the riled-up Fox News adherents.

About your point on knowing better, don’t you think that well-educated people who study the issues, and the reporters who follow stories for years, actually do know better?

Conservatives used to hold experts and intellectuals in high regard. But now, education is elitist and dirty in American politics. What a change from 50 years ago.

Allan, I think that you’re just as guilty of the dishonesty you accuse me of. For example, you pointed to clip of Jeremiah Wright as a reason Obama is unfit to be president. I could likewise point to a number of crazy religious influences on the current crop of Republican candidates.

I think that there is a huge qualitative difference between NYT, HuffPo and Fox. On Fox, they are always yelling and screaming. Is that kind of vulgar, riled-up, angry attitude really representative of conservative values?

The right has become really good at using sound-bites and headlines to rile-up people. I’m actually jealous of how effective right-wing news and talk-shows have become. To even out the field, I think that the left should fight fire with fire. At this point, intellectual persuasion and dialogue are futile.

I’m sorry, but if you want honest debate, then you need to start at home and work on telling your side to propose honest, workable solutions to our problems.

edit:
On the authoritarian and patronizing ways of dealing with certain folks, I always thought that conservatives liked it tough: “just say no”, “zero tolerance”, “just nuke it”, death penalty, cut off benefits, 3-strikes and you’re out, etc…[/quote]

Brian: I’ll start off by saying that you do have a point relative to hypocrisy and, yup, I’m guilty of that on occasion.

However, you then segue into “strawman” land with various false equivalences. My not reading the NYT does NOT mean I’m consuming any of the shit that Fox puts out. And, “my side”? Which “side”, exactly, is that?

The most important question you posed was regarding “well-educated” people. This presupposes two things: First, conservatives (as opposed to Right-wingers) are NOT well-educated, and second, that those self-same well-educated people (and I’m assuming you mean Liberals and Leftists) are better able to guide the country.

Based on that, Brian, let me ask you: How well do you think they’re doing? Your “side”, that is? Honestly, now. Because I can make a very compelling argument that they are not doing so well. And I’m going to include an article from today’s NYT to support that contention. The centrist NYT, right?

Bluntly stated, I’d cheerfully trade know-how and business acumen for intellectual horsepower. Your point regarding the more collegial days past of 50 years ago is well taken. But the frothing-at-the-mouth rabidity of today’s politics is not confined to the Reactionary Right. If you’re being honest and not hypocritical, simply recall BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) and how that manifested itself on the Looney Left.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1]Allan, I’ll admit that often times, I’m less interested in serious debate than in pushing back against the riled-up Fox News adherents.

About your point on knowing better, don’t you think that well-educated people who study the issues, and the reporters who follow stories for years, actually do know better?

Conservatives used to hold experts and intellectuals in high regard. But now, education is elitist and dirty in American politics. What a change from 50 years ago.

Allan, I think that you’re just as guilty of the dishonesty you accuse me of. For example, you pointed to clip of Jeremiah Wright as a reason Obama is unfit to be president. I could likewise point to a number of crazy religious influences on the current crop of Republican candidates.

I think that there is a huge qualitative difference between NYT, HuffPo and Fox. On Fox, they are always yelling and screaming. Is that kind of vulgar, riled-up, angry attitude really representative of conservative values?

The right has become really good at using sound-bites and headlines to rile-up people. I’m actually jealous of how effective right-wing news and talk-shows have become. To even out the field, I think that the left should fight fire with fire. At this point, intellectual persuasion and dialogue are futile.

I’m sorry, but if you want honest debate, then you need to start at home and work on telling your side to propose honest, workable solutions to our problems.

edit:
On the authoritarian and patronizing ways of dealing with certain folks, I always thought that conservatives liked it tough: “just say no”, “zero tolerance”, “just nuke it”, death penalty, cut off benefits, 3-strikes and you’re out, etc…[/quote]

Brian: I’ll start off by saying that you do have a point relative to hypocrisy and, yup, I’m guilty of that on occasion.

However, you then segue into “strawman” land with various false equivalences. My not reading the NYT does NOT mean I’m consuming any of the shit that Fox puts out. And, “my side”? Which “side”, exactly, is that?

The most important question you posed was regarding “well-educated” people. This presupposes two things: First, conservatives (as opposed to Right-wingers) are NOT well-educated, and second, that those self-same well-educated people (and I’m assuming you mean Liberals and Leftists) are better able to guide the country.

Based on that, Brian, let me ask you: How well do you think they’re doing? Your “side”, that is? Honestly, now. Because I can make a very compelling argument that they are not doing so well. And I’m going to include an article from today’s NYT to support that contention. The centrist NYT, right?

Bluntly stated, I’d cheerfully trade know-how and business acumen for intellectual horsepower. Your point regarding the more collegial days past of 50 years ago is well taken. But the frothing-at-the-mouth rabidity of today’s politics is not confined to the Reactionary Right. If you’re being honest and not hypocritical, simply recall BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) and how that manifested itself on the Looney Left.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1]Allan, I’ll admit that often times, I’m less interested in serious debate than in pushing back against the riled-up Fox News adherents.

About your point on knowing better, don’t you think that well-educated people who study the issues, and the reporters who follow stories for years, actually do know better?

Conservatives used to hold experts and intellectuals in high regard. But now, education is elitist and dirty in American politics. What a change from 50 years ago.

Allan, I think that you’re just as guilty of the dishonesty you accuse me of. For example, you pointed to clip of Jeremiah Wright as a reason Obama is unfit to be president. I could likewise point to a number of crazy religious influences on the current crop of Republican candidates.

I think that there is a huge qualitative difference between NYT, HuffPo and Fox. On Fox, they are always yelling and screaming. Is that kind of vulgar, riled-up, angry attitude really representative of conservative values?

The right has become really good at using sound-bites and headlines to rile-up people. I’m actually jealous of how effective right-wing news and talk-shows have become. To even out the field, I think that the left should fight fire with fire. At this point, intellectual persuasion and dialogue are futile.

I’m sorry, but if you want honest debate, then you need to start at home and work on telling your side to propose honest, workable solutions to our problems.

edit:
On the authoritarian and patronizing ways of dealing with certain folks, I always thought that conservatives liked it tough: “just say no”, “zero tolerance”, “just nuke it”, death penalty, cut off benefits, 3-strikes and you’re out, etc…[/quote]

Brian: I’ll start off by saying that you do have a point relative to hypocrisy and, yup, I’m guilty of that on occasion.

However, you then segue into “strawman” land with various false equivalences. My not reading the NYT does NOT mean I’m consuming any of the shit that Fox puts out. And, “my side”? Which “side”, exactly, is that?

The most important question you posed was regarding “well-educated” people. This presupposes two things: First, conservatives (as opposed to Right-wingers) are NOT well-educated, and second, that those self-same well-educated people (and I’m assuming you mean Liberals and Leftists) are better able to guide the country.

Based on that, Brian, let me ask you: How well do you think they’re doing? Your “side”, that is? Honestly, now. Because I can make a very compelling argument that they are not doing so well. And I’m going to include an article from today’s NYT to support that contention. The centrist NYT, right?

Bluntly stated, I’d cheerfully trade know-how and business acumen for intellectual horsepower. Your point regarding the more collegial days past of 50 years ago is well taken. But the frothing-at-the-mouth rabidity of today’s politics is not confined to the Reactionary Right. If you’re being honest and not hypocritical, simply recall BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) and how that manifested itself on the Looney Left.

[an]

[quote=briansd1]I believe that if you’re a good person, you become more progressive with age.[/quote]
Really?

[an]

[quote=briansd1]I believe that if you’re a good person, you become more progressive with age.[/quote]
Really?

[an]

[quote=briansd1]I believe that if you’re a good person, you become more progressive with age.[/quote]
Really?

[an]

[quote=briansd1]I believe that if you’re a good person, you become more progressive with age.[/quote]
Really?

[an]

[quote=briansd1]I believe that if you’re a good person, you become more progressive with age.[/quote]
Really?

[EconProf]

Briansd1: Thank you for sharing your reading list with us.
It is 100% liberal.
No balance or challenges to your entrenched beliefs will threaten you in that list! Please try an issue or two of National Review, The Weekly Standard, or the Wall Street Journal editorial page (the rest of the WSJ is pretty balanced news coverage).
I am conservative, but also read The Economist and The New Republic and watch MSNBC to be exposed to the other side. The New Republic has reputation as left, but can be refreshingly open to ideas from the right. The Economist, on your list, can be exhausting to get through, but also voices views from the right on occasion. They were years ahead of everyone else in calling the housing bubble.

[EconProf]

Briansd1: Thank you for sharing your reading list with us.
It is 100% liberal.
No balance or challenges to your entrenched beliefs will threaten you in that list! Please try an issue or two of National Review, The Weekly Standard, or the Wall Street Journal editorial page (the rest of the WSJ is pretty balanced news coverage).
I am conservative, but also read The Economist and The New Republic and watch MSNBC to be exposed to the other side. The New Republic has reputation as left, but can be refreshingly open to ideas from the right. The Economist, on your list, can be exhausting to get through, but also voices views from the right on occasion. They were years ahead of everyone else in calling the housing bubble.

[EconProf]

Briansd1: Thank you for sharing your reading list with us.
It is 100% liberal.
No balance or challenges to your entrenched beliefs will threaten you in that list! Please try an issue or two of National Review, The Weekly Standard, or the Wall Street Journal editorial page (the rest of the WSJ is pretty balanced news coverage).
I am conservative, but also read The Economist and The New Republic and watch MSNBC to be exposed to the other side. The New Republic has reputation as left, but can be refreshingly open to ideas from the right. The Economist, on your list, can be exhausting to get through, but also voices views from the right on occasion. They were years ahead of everyone else in calling the housing bubble.

[EconProf]

Briansd1: Thank you for sharing your reading list with us.
It is 100% liberal.
No balance or challenges to your entrenched beliefs will threaten you in that list! Please try an issue or two of National Review, The Weekly Standard, or the Wall Street Journal editorial page (the rest of the WSJ is pretty balanced news coverage).
I am conservative, but also read The Economist and The New Republic and watch MSNBC to be exposed to the other side. The New Republic has reputation as left, but can be refreshingly open to ideas from the right. The Economist, on your list, can be exhausting to get through, but also voices views from the right on occasion. They were years ahead of everyone else in calling the housing bubble.

[Author]

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