I voted to end it, because in I voted to end it, because in this state, “death penalty” translates to “life in a better cell at higher cost”.
And besides, life in GP is a waaaay harsher punishment than a quick death, even if the convict doesn’t realize it.
Diego Mamani
September 4, 2012 @
11:48 AM
Countries that have abolished Countries that have abolished the death penalty: UK, France, Mexico, Argentina, Italy, Spain, Costa Rica, Peru, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Bolivia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Uruguay, Germany, Austria, Canada, Brazil
Countries that still have the death penalty: Saudi Arabia, China, Libya, North Korea, Somalia, Sudan, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan
Now, which group you rather be in?
ucodegen
September 4, 2012 @
12:33 PM
You forgot to add:
Countries You forgot to add:
Countries that have abolished the death penalty:
Angola, Benin, Mauritius, Mozambique, Namibia, Rwanda, Togo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia.
Those with death penalty:
Taiwan, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Japan
Cherry pick a bit? Trying to make a decision on basis of “which group do you want to be in” is an irrelevant method for decision. Try some logic pro or con.
Diego Mamani
September 4, 2012 @
12:37 PM
Also without death penalty: Also without death penalty: Australia, South Africa, etc. Benin is interesting, it has scored highly in a governance index.
Diego Mamani
September 4, 2012 @
12:45 PM
ucodegen wrote:Trying to make [quote=ucodegen]Trying to make a decision on basis of “which group do you want to be in” is an irrelevant method for decision. Try some logic pro or con.[/quote]The fact that all the democracies in Western Europe and Latin America have abolished this barbaric practice should tell you something. And no, it wasn’t my intention to argue against this type of punishment, but merely to describe what countries oppose it and what don’t.
[quote=ucodegen]Those with death penalty:
Taiwan, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Japan[/quote]
And these countries are certainly not closer to us, culturally, than, say Europe or Latin America.
ucodegen
September 4, 2012 @
1:41 PM
Diego Mamani wrote:ucodegen [quote=Diego Mamani][quote=ucodegen]Trying to make a decision on basis of “which group do you want to be in” is an irrelevant method for decision. Try some logic pro or con.[/quote]The fact that all the democracies in Western Europe and Latin America have abolished this barbaric practice should tell you something. And no, it wasn’t my intention to argue against this type of punishment, but merely to describe what countries oppose it and what don’t.[/quote]
If it weren’t for your statement
Now, which group you rather be in?
I could accept the statement about your intention as true.. unfortunately what you stated earlier seems to contradict your later stated intention.
[quote=Diego Mamani][quote=ucodegen]Those with death penalty:
Taiwan, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Japan[/quote]
And these countries are certainly not closer to us, culturally, than, say Europe or Latin America.[/quote]Considering the large Asian population within the US, that Hawaii is a state in the United States.. it is hard to say they are not closer to us. At least the asians had enough respect for this country to enter legally (for the most part). Considering the current racial mix within the US.. it is getting hard to say which country is ‘closer to us’. Given that you are getting back along the lines of ‘more like’ so we should ‘do like’… I would have to again repeat that you are contradicting what you were stating in
it wasn’t my intention to argue against this type of punishment
because you are trying to insinuate a tie or ‘likeness’, so we should behave like… also your use of the wording ‘barbaric practice’ also points to a contradiction. Therefore your statement
it wasn’t my intention to argue against this type of punishment, but merely to describe what countries oppose it and what don’t.
is disingenuous. You are trying to argue/make a point without supporting the point by making the effective statement that “all reasonable non-barbaric folks ban capital punishment, and we should ban capital punishment because we are similar to reasonable non-barbaric folks who have banned it.”
Diego Mamani
September 4, 2012 @
4:54 PM
ucodegen wrote:At least the [quote=ucodegen]At least the asians had enough respect for this country to enter legally (for the most part).[/quote]
I see, so you like to argue over the Internet, you think killing criminals that are already locked up is a good idea, and you have a bias against immigrants from bordering countries (you think Asians wouldn’t walk over here if their country of origin shared a border with the US?).
I’m not going to waste time arguing. I you think that that there’s no information in the fact that all these countries ban killing criminals that no longer pose a danger to society: UK, France, Mexico, Argentina, Italy, Spain, Costa Rica, Peru, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Bolivia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Uruguay, Germany, Austria, Canada, Brazil, Angola, Benin, Mauritius, Mozambique, Namibia, Rwanda, Togo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Australia, South Africa;
while at the same time you could come up with a tiny list of Asian countries as an counter example (Taiwan, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Japan), then by all means, continue believing in what you, Arpaio, and others believe in. I came here to expose the facts, not try to convince people to change their beliefs.
ucodegen
September 4, 2012 @
5:28 PM
Quote:I see, so you like to [quote]I see, so you like to argue over the Internet, you think killing criminals that are already locked up is a good idea, and you have a bias against immigrants from bordering countries (you think Asians wouldn’t walk over here if their country of origin shared a border with the US?).[/quote]3 Topic sentences in one paragraph…
1) I can argue over the Internet or in Person.. it seems that you also like to argue.. pot, kettle. The only problem is that you have difficulty arguing with someone who points out weaknesses in your arguments.. or when you try to pose ad homenim argument and get called on it.
2) The problem is a) deterrent – People who argue that the death penalty is not- have never seen the last walk. b) escapees have killed – there are people who will never reform, and until you have been or someone close has been a victim of one of these, you have no idea.
3) As for Asians willing to walk if they could.. some would, some won’t, but in general, I have found a greater respect for a countries laws in Asians than in Mexicans. Too many Mexicans want to recreate Aztlan.. ignoring that the method they are using will just create a larger Mexico with all the associated problems. I have not seen Asians waving Japanese, Vietnamese, Chinese, Cambodian flags at the inappropriate times that I have seen Mexicans.
PS: I like Arpaio.. at least he has the guts to enforce a law on the books instead of pandering in a way that disenfranchises the existing citizenry by diluting the vote through a series of amnesties without really dealing with the problem.
What you didn’t notice about the country list banning the death penalty, is that some of them have death ‘gangs’.. or have had them in the near past.. and in many cases, little to nothing has been done about the atrocities of these gangs by their government. In some cases, members of the government took part.
Diego Mamani
September 4, 2012 @
6:52 PM
ucodegen wrote:The only [quote=ucodegen]The only problem is that you have difficulty arguing with someone who points out weaknesses in your arguments.. or when you try to pose ad homenim argument and get called on it.[/quote]
What arguments? I said I wouldn’t argue. I only presented a factual piece, that apparently pushed your buttons. Again, I didn’t come here to argue, especially with those who share Arapaio’s world view. Finally, check your spelling of Latin phrases.
Anonymous
September 5, 2012 @
11:38 AM
Arapaio is great. If we had Arapaio is great. If we had more sheriffs like him we would have less crime. Ever wonder why there is less crime in Japan?
It’s because they would NEVER tolerate criminals like we do here.
The way we treat hardened criminals is shameful.
scaredyclassic
September 5, 2012 @
7:44 PM
Brutus wrote:Arapaio is [quote=Brutus]Arapaio is great. If we had more sheriffs like him we would have less crime. Ever wonder why there is less crime in Japan?
It’s because they would NEVER tolerate criminals like we do here.
The way we treat hardened criminals is shameful.[/quote]
what should we do to them?
urbanrealtor
September 5, 2012 @
9:38 PM
squat250 wrote:Brutus [quote=squat250][quote=Brutus]Arapaio is great. If we had more sheriffs like him we would have less crime. Ever wonder why there is less crime in Japan?
It’s because they would NEVER tolerate criminals like we do here.
The way we treat hardened criminals is shameful.[/quote]
what should we do to them?[/quote]
See I don’t get this.
We throw some crazy multiple of the amount we used to throw in prison.
And most of the people we put in under 3 strikes are non-violent.
But its a really huge number.
I don’t think its our “niceness” that keeps our streets so “dangerous”.
At least that is not what appears to be at work.
The country I was born in (Germany)has less crime but they don’t do the kind of stuff Arpaio does. I mean they ask for papers but they don’t investigate or intimidate federal agents or reporters.
We are too focused on revenge and not enough on effectiveness.
scaredyclassic
September 5, 2012 @
10:37 PM
if the people vote against if the people vote against the death penalty, it’ll probably just be to save money.
spdrun
September 7, 2012 @
2:19 PM
As long as the seriously As long as the seriously violent felons are out of society, what’s wrong with saving money? Besides, California doesn’t have the death penalty for all practical purposes anyway. Haven’t there been something like 5 executions in the last 25 years with about a thousand death sentences? Sounds more like the “die of old age”, “get shived in prison”, or “maybe, occasionally, get executed if you’re very unlucky” lottery.
Arraya
September 7, 2012 @
3:53 PM
The death penalty, like The death penalty, like circumcision(male and female) and animal sacrifices for that matter are, are barbarous relics of the past.
bar·ba·rous [ brbərəss ] 1.extremely cruel: showing extreme cruelty
2.uncivilized: characterized by an uncivilized culture
3.not sophisticated: lacking sophistication or refinement
Einstein said: “the unleashed power of the atom has changed everything, except our way of thinking”…How we think about violence in America, about the growth of maximum security prisons and the “prison industry” in America, about what’s happening to prisoners in prison and the punishers looking for the next opportunity to punish…needs to change
ucodegen
September 7, 2012 @
4:59 PM
Arraya wrote:The death [quote Arraya]The death penalty, like circumcision(male and female) and animal sacrifices for that matter are, are barbarous relics of the past.[/quote]
Murder is a barbarous act. Assault with intent to commit murder is a barbarous act. Those who refuse to act civilized and decide to behave as ‘barbarians’.. should be treated as such. Give them a chance to reform, and if they decide to continue being barbarians.. treat them as such.
BTW male and female circumcision is different. With males, it is largely the foreskin.. which does not have as much ‘sensation’. With women, it is the removal of the ‘sensitive’ part with the intent of keeping her ‘chaste’ and reducing her desire for the ‘big O’ because it is harder/or less likely for her to have it with the clitoris removed. The rough equivalent to the female circumcision would be to lop of the head of the male organ!.. not the foreskin.
Technical on female circumcision (since there is some lack of real knowledge here on the diff between male and female circumcision – skip to next post if this may be TMI)
There are three forms:
clitoridectomy – part or all of the clitoris is amputated.
‘excision’ – both the clitoris and the labia minora are removed.
infibulation – both the clitoris and labia minora are removed followed by labia majora being cut or scraped away to create raw surfaces – which are held in contact (stitching) until they heal – result is a very small ‘opening’.
PS:
A circumcised male is much less likely go transmit some forms of STDs to a woman.. including chlamydia… and this is actually a fact (Check World Health Organization) – reason is because there are no foreskin folds for the bacteria to hide in.. and it is easier for the male to keep his ‘tool’ clean.
Was just going to check my Was just going to check my favorite political topics blog, then decided to just come here instead. Gosh. What a treat to find I can read about the death penalty, circumsicion, the true story of Romney and Bain Capital, predict Obama/Biden winner all here on Piggington.
NotCranky
September 4, 2012 @
2:46 PM
sdduuuude wrote:Was just [quote=sdduuuude]Was just going to check my favorite political topics blog, then decided to just come here instead. Gosh. What a treat to find I can read about the death penalty, circumsicion, the true story of Romney and Bain Capital, predict Obama/Biden winner all here on Piggington.[/quote]
I think the punishment should I think the punishment should fit the crime. However there is the cost to think about. And that additonal cost reduces the number of people we can put in prison. So…in the context of the real world….no.
Now in Matts perfect world a legally sane person who decided to kill a few children for insurance money would be tortured for quite some time before dying….
Of course the evidence would have to be beyond a reasonable doubt. Well I guess I’m back to square one.
poorgradstudent
September 5, 2012 @
11:19 AM
I honestly don’t know.
I’m a I honestly don’t know.
I’m a swing voter on this issue and am open to all arguments, pro and con. I’m especially interested in hearing what would save the state the most money.
bearishgurl
October 19, 2012 @
7:48 PM
poorgradstudent wrote:I [quote=poorgradstudent]I honestly don’t know.
I’m a swing voter on this issue and am open to all arguments, pro and con. I’m especially interested in hearing what would save the state the most money.[/quote]
poorgradstudent, you can start with your Official Voter Information Guide for the legislative analysts’ “estimates.” Then migrate over to each of CA’s 58 county websites for their budgets for prosecution, defense, and jails. Then the state site for the courts and DOC budgets. And start deleting positions from there.
Then you will be much closer to having your answer.
Hint: the Voter Information Guide’s savings estimates are far too low.
CA criminal felony defendants (ESP Class 4 felony, capital crime and “special-circumstance” defendants) involuntarily use repeated services from a multitude of county and state agencies during the course of their arrest, prosecution, conviction, sentencing, intake assessment at the DOC, within their DOC placement, when paroled and the list goes on …. :=0
spdrun
September 5, 2012 @
2:08 PM
Wrongful convictions on Wrongful convictions on capital crimes are pretty common (Illinois death row, a couple cases in TX). Wrongful executions (the Willingham affair in TX) are also not unheard of. I say end it, ideally on a national scale.
(And happy that while NY theoretically has the death penalty on the books, it hasn’t executed anyone since the early 60s.)
Lethal injection also gives me the creeps, as they hire doctors and nurses to do the deed, apparently. Too similar to the Nazi doctors for comfort.
urbanrealtor
September 7, 2012 @
8:36 PM
Yeah.
That’s not really a Yeah.
That’s not really a very good overview of female genital mutilation.
There are lots of versions of FMG and most are not the kind you describe.
I had to study this (ad nauseum) in Muslim ethnography classes and pieces like this one were required reading simply for their partisan slant.
It’s funny how the salacious versions always get the most.
Its far more boring to say that most genital mutilation (male or female) is relatively homogenous.
Its far more interesting (and fucking gross) to focus on the places where they practice clitorectomy or vaginal sealing.
For the record, I do not believe in any genital mutilation (except for really funny tattoos).
Also, I don’t believe in capital punishment
ucodegen
September 8, 2012 @
1:20 PM
urbanrealtor [quote=urbanrealtor]Yeah.
That’s not really a very good overview of female genital mutilation.
There are lots of versions of FMG and most are not the kind you describe.[/quote] Interesting comment because the paper I indicated references the World Health Organization study, which indicated that clitoridectomy was the most promenent. They even did a break-down by region. Now if you consider ‘recreational’ ‘alteration’.. then that is a whole other thing.
scaredyclassic
October 19, 2012 @
6:27 PM
recent la times:
A new poll recent la times:
A new poll has found that a November ballot measure to replace the death penalty with life without possibility of parole faces an uphill battle with California voters.
The USC Dornsife/Los Angeles Times survey found that Proposition 34, which would commute the sentences of California’s more than 725 death row inmates to life with no parole, was trailing 51% to 38%.
But the survey also showed the gap became a statistical dead heat once respondents were told the measure would require convicted killers to work while in prison, direct their earnings to their victims and earmark $100 million for police to solve murders and rapes.
Proposition 34 would make life without parole California’s toughest criminal punishment. Proponents have argued it would save hundreds of millions of dollars by eliminating complex death penalty trials, reducing appeals and eliminating single cells on death row. The nonpartisan legislative analyst’s office has said the measure could save the state as much as $130 million annually, an amount supporters of capital punishment dispute.
But the survey found that voters were not swayed by projected savings. Opponents of the measure outnumbered supporters by the same margin—46% to 44%–even after they learned that abolishing the death penalty might substantially reduce state spending.
Pollsters said the findings did not bode well for Proposition 34 and demonstrated that views about the death penalty remain entrenched.
spdrun
October 19, 2012 @
6:33 PM
Most voters are stupid, Most voters are stupid, ignorant pricks. News at 11.
What they don’t realize is that CA has abolished execution for all practical purposes. A handful of executions since the 80s, and about a thousand death sentences. It’s not a penalty. It’s a lottery.
September 4, 2012 @ 11:23 AM
I voted to end it, because in
I voted to end it, because in this state, “death penalty” translates to “life in a better cell at higher cost”.
And besides, life in GP is a waaaay harsher punishment than a quick death, even if the convict doesn’t realize it.
September 4, 2012 @ 11:48 AM
Countries that have abolished
Countries that have abolished the death penalty: UK, France, Mexico, Argentina, Italy, Spain, Costa Rica, Peru, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Bolivia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Uruguay, Germany, Austria, Canada, Brazil
Countries that still have the death penalty: Saudi Arabia, China, Libya, North Korea, Somalia, Sudan, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan
Now, which group you rather be in?
September 4, 2012 @ 12:33 PM
You forgot to add:
Countries
You forgot to add:
Countries that have abolished the death penalty:
Angola, Benin, Mauritius, Mozambique, Namibia, Rwanda, Togo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia.
Those with death penalty:
Taiwan, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Japan
Cherry pick a bit? Trying to make a decision on basis of “which group do you want to be in” is an irrelevant method for decision. Try some logic pro or con.
September 4, 2012 @ 12:37 PM
Also without death penalty:
Also without death penalty: Australia, South Africa, etc. Benin is interesting, it has scored highly in a governance index.
September 4, 2012 @ 12:45 PM
ucodegen wrote:Trying to make
[quote=ucodegen]Trying to make a decision on basis of “which group do you want to be in” is an irrelevant method for decision. Try some logic pro or con.[/quote]The fact that all the democracies in Western Europe and Latin America have abolished this barbaric practice should tell you something. And no, it wasn’t my intention to argue against this type of punishment, but merely to describe what countries oppose it and what don’t.
[quote=ucodegen]Those with death penalty:
Taiwan, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Japan[/quote]
And these countries are certainly not closer to us, culturally, than, say Europe or Latin America.
September 4, 2012 @ 1:41 PM
Diego Mamani wrote:ucodegen
[quote=Diego Mamani][quote=ucodegen]Trying to make a decision on basis of “which group do you want to be in” is an irrelevant method for decision. Try some logic pro or con.[/quote]The fact that all the democracies in Western Europe and Latin America have abolished this barbaric practice should tell you something. And no, it wasn’t my intention to argue against this type of punishment, but merely to describe what countries oppose it and what don’t.[/quote]
If it weren’t for your statement
I could accept the statement about your intention as true.. unfortunately what you stated earlier seems to contradict your later stated intention.
[quote=Diego Mamani][quote=ucodegen]Those with death penalty:
Taiwan, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Japan[/quote]
And these countries are certainly not closer to us, culturally, than, say Europe or Latin America.[/quote]Considering the large Asian population within the US, that Hawaii is a state in the United States.. it is hard to say they are not closer to us. At least the asians had enough respect for this country to enter legally (for the most part). Considering the current racial mix within the US.. it is getting hard to say which country is ‘closer to us’. Given that you are getting back along the lines of ‘more like’ so we should ‘do like’… I would have to again repeat that you are contradicting what you were stating in
because you are trying to insinuate a tie or ‘likeness’, so we should behave like… also your use of the wording ‘barbaric practice’ also points to a contradiction. Therefore your statement
is disingenuous. You are trying to argue/make a point without supporting the point by making the effective statement that “all reasonable non-barbaric folks ban capital punishment, and we should ban capital punishment because we are similar to reasonable non-barbaric folks who have banned it.”
September 4, 2012 @ 4:54 PM
ucodegen wrote:At least the
[quote=ucodegen]At least the asians had enough respect for this country to enter legally (for the most part).[/quote]
I see, so you like to argue over the Internet, you think killing criminals that are already locked up is a good idea, and you have a bias against immigrants from bordering countries (you think Asians wouldn’t walk over here if their country of origin shared a border with the US?).
I’m not going to waste time arguing. I you think that that there’s no information in the fact that all these countries ban killing criminals that no longer pose a danger to society: UK, France, Mexico, Argentina, Italy, Spain, Costa Rica, Peru, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Bolivia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Uruguay, Germany, Austria, Canada, Brazil, Angola, Benin, Mauritius, Mozambique, Namibia, Rwanda, Togo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Australia, South Africa;
while at the same time you could come up with a tiny list of Asian countries as an counter example (Taiwan, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Japan), then by all means, continue believing in what you, Arpaio, and others believe in. I came here to expose the facts, not try to convince people to change their beliefs.
September 4, 2012 @ 5:28 PM
Quote:I see, so you like to
[quote]I see, so you like to argue over the Internet, you think killing criminals that are already locked up is a good idea, and you have a bias against immigrants from bordering countries (you think Asians wouldn’t walk over here if their country of origin shared a border with the US?).[/quote]3 Topic sentences in one paragraph…
1) I can argue over the Internet or in Person.. it seems that you also like to argue.. pot, kettle. The only problem is that you have difficulty arguing with someone who points out weaknesses in your arguments.. or when you try to pose ad homenim argument and get called on it.
2) The problem is a) deterrent – People who argue that the death penalty is not- have never seen the last walk. b) escapees have killed – there are people who will never reform, and until you have been or someone close has been a victim of one of these, you have no idea.
3) As for Asians willing to walk if they could.. some would, some won’t, but in general, I have found a greater respect for a countries laws in Asians than in Mexicans. Too many Mexicans want to recreate Aztlan.. ignoring that the method they are using will just create a larger Mexico with all the associated problems. I have not seen Asians waving Japanese, Vietnamese, Chinese, Cambodian flags at the inappropriate times that I have seen Mexicans.
PS: I like Arpaio.. at least he has the guts to enforce a law on the books instead of pandering in a way that disenfranchises the existing citizenry by diluting the vote through a series of amnesties without really dealing with the problem.
What you didn’t notice about the country list banning the death penalty, is that some of them have death ‘gangs’.. or have had them in the near past.. and in many cases, little to nothing has been done about the atrocities of these gangs by their government. In some cases, members of the government took part.
September 4, 2012 @ 6:52 PM
ucodegen wrote:The only
[quote=ucodegen]The only problem is that you have difficulty arguing with someone who points out weaknesses in your arguments.. or when you try to pose ad homenim argument and get called on it.[/quote]
What arguments? I said I wouldn’t argue. I only presented a factual piece, that apparently pushed your buttons. Again, I didn’t come here to argue, especially with those who share Arapaio’s world view. Finally, check your spelling of Latin phrases.
September 5, 2012 @ 11:38 AM
Arapaio is great. If we had
Arapaio is great. If we had more sheriffs like him we would have less crime. Ever wonder why there is less crime in Japan?
It’s because they would NEVER tolerate criminals like we do here.
The way we treat hardened criminals is shameful.
September 5, 2012 @ 7:44 PM
Brutus wrote:Arapaio is
[quote=Brutus]Arapaio is great. If we had more sheriffs like him we would have less crime. Ever wonder why there is less crime in Japan?
It’s because they would NEVER tolerate criminals like we do here.
The way we treat hardened criminals is shameful.[/quote]
what should we do to them?
September 5, 2012 @ 9:38 PM
squat250 wrote:Brutus
[quote=squat250][quote=Brutus]Arapaio is great. If we had more sheriffs like him we would have less crime. Ever wonder why there is less crime in Japan?
It’s because they would NEVER tolerate criminals like we do here.
The way we treat hardened criminals is shameful.[/quote]
what should we do to them?[/quote]
See I don’t get this.
We throw some crazy multiple of the amount we used to throw in prison.
And most of the people we put in under 3 strikes are non-violent.
But its a really huge number.
I don’t think its our “niceness” that keeps our streets so “dangerous”.
At least that is not what appears to be at work.
The country I was born in (Germany)has less crime but they don’t do the kind of stuff Arpaio does. I mean they ask for papers but they don’t investigate or intimidate federal agents or reporters.
We are too focused on revenge and not enough on effectiveness.
September 5, 2012 @ 10:37 PM
if the people vote against
if the people vote against the death penalty, it’ll probably just be to save money.
September 7, 2012 @ 2:19 PM
As long as the seriously
As long as the seriously violent felons are out of society, what’s wrong with saving money? Besides, California doesn’t have the death penalty for all practical purposes anyway. Haven’t there been something like 5 executions in the last 25 years with about a thousand death sentences? Sounds more like the “die of old age”, “get shived in prison”, or “maybe, occasionally, get executed if you’re very unlucky” lottery.
September 7, 2012 @ 3:53 PM
The death penalty, like
The death penalty, like circumcision(male and female) and animal sacrifices for that matter are, are barbarous relics of the past.
bar·ba·rous [ brbərəss ] 1.extremely cruel: showing extreme cruelty
2.uncivilized: characterized by an uncivilized culture
3.not sophisticated: lacking sophistication or refinement
Einstein said: “the unleashed power of the atom has changed everything, except our way of thinking”…How we think about violence in America, about the growth of maximum security prisons and the “prison industry” in America, about what’s happening to prisoners in prison and the punishers looking for the next opportunity to punish…needs to change
September 7, 2012 @ 4:59 PM
Arraya wrote:The death
[quote Arraya]The death penalty, like circumcision(male and female) and animal sacrifices for that matter are, are barbarous relics of the past.[/quote]
Murder is a barbarous act. Assault with intent to commit murder is a barbarous act. Those who refuse to act civilized and decide to behave as ‘barbarians’.. should be treated as such. Give them a chance to reform, and if they decide to continue being barbarians.. treat them as such.
BTW male and female circumcision is different. With males, it is largely the foreskin.. which does not have as much ‘sensation’. With women, it is the removal of the ‘sensitive’ part with the intent of keeping her ‘chaste’ and reducing her desire for the ‘big O’ because it is harder/or less likely for her to have it with the clitoris removed. The rough equivalent to the female circumcision would be to lop of the head of the male organ!.. not the foreskin.
Technical on female circumcision (since there is some lack of real knowledge here on the diff between male and female circumcision – skip to next post if this may be TMI)
PS:
A circumcised male is much less likely go transmit some forms of STDs to a woman.. including chlamydia… and this is actually a fact (Check World Health Organization) – reason is because there are no foreskin folds for the bacteria to hide in.. and it is easier for the male to keep his ‘tool’ clean.
Good ref on Female Circumcision – suggest reading all
September 4, 2012 @ 12:41 PM
Was just going to check my
Was just going to check my favorite political topics blog, then decided to just come here instead. Gosh. What a treat to find I can read about the death penalty, circumsicion, the true story of Romney and Bain Capital, predict Obama/Biden winner all here on Piggington.
September 4, 2012 @ 2:46 PM
sdduuuude wrote:Was just
[quote=sdduuuude]Was just going to check my favorite political topics blog, then decided to just come here instead. Gosh. What a treat to find I can read about the death penalty, circumsicion, the true story of Romney and Bain Capital, predict Obama/Biden winner all here on Piggington.[/quote]
http://www.sandiegohousingforecast.com/about-us/
September 5, 2012 @ 12:43 AM
I think the punishment should
I think the punishment should fit the crime. However there is the cost to think about. And that additonal cost reduces the number of people we can put in prison. So…in the context of the real world….no.
Now in Matts perfect world a legally sane person who decided to kill a few children for insurance money would be tortured for quite some time before dying….
Of course the evidence would have to be beyond a reasonable doubt. Well I guess I’m back to square one.
September 5, 2012 @ 11:19 AM
I honestly don’t know.
I’m a
I honestly don’t know.
I’m a swing voter on this issue and am open to all arguments, pro and con. I’m especially interested in hearing what would save the state the most money.
October 19, 2012 @ 7:48 PM
poorgradstudent wrote:I
[quote=poorgradstudent]I honestly don’t know.
I’m a swing voter on this issue and am open to all arguments, pro and con. I’m especially interested in hearing what would save the state the most money.[/quote]
poorgradstudent, you can start with your Official Voter Information Guide for the legislative analysts’ “estimates.” Then migrate over to each of CA’s 58 county websites for their budgets for prosecution, defense, and jails. Then the state site for the courts and DOC budgets. And start deleting positions from there.
Then you will be much closer to having your answer.
Hint: the Voter Information Guide’s savings estimates are far too low.
CA criminal felony defendants (ESP Class 4 felony, capital crime and “special-circumstance” defendants) involuntarily use repeated services from a multitude of county and state agencies during the course of their arrest, prosecution, conviction, sentencing, intake assessment at the DOC, within their DOC placement, when paroled and the list goes on …. :=0
September 5, 2012 @ 2:08 PM
Wrongful convictions on
Wrongful convictions on capital crimes are pretty common (Illinois death row, a couple cases in TX). Wrongful executions (the Willingham affair in TX) are also not unheard of. I say end it, ideally on a national scale.
(And happy that while NY theoretically has the death penalty on the books, it hasn’t executed anyone since the early 60s.)
Lethal injection also gives me the creeps, as they hire doctors and nurses to do the deed, apparently. Too similar to the Nazi doctors for comfort.
September 7, 2012 @ 8:36 PM
Yeah.
That’s not really a
Yeah.
That’s not really a very good overview of female genital mutilation.
There are lots of versions of FMG and most are not the kind you describe.
I had to study this (ad nauseum) in Muslim ethnography classes and pieces like this one were required reading simply for their partisan slant.
It’s funny how the salacious versions always get the most.
Its far more boring to say that most genital mutilation (male or female) is relatively homogenous.
Its far more interesting (and fucking gross) to focus on the places where they practice clitorectomy or vaginal sealing.
For the record, I do not believe in any genital mutilation (except for really funny tattoos).
Also, I don’t believe in capital punishment
September 8, 2012 @ 1:20 PM
urbanrealtor
[quote=urbanrealtor]Yeah.
That’s not really a very good overview of female genital mutilation.
There are lots of versions of FMG and most are not the kind you describe.[/quote] Interesting comment because the paper I indicated references the World Health Organization study, which indicated that clitoridectomy was the most promenent. They even did a break-down by region. Now if you consider ‘recreational’ ‘alteration’.. then that is a whole other thing.
October 19, 2012 @ 6:27 PM
recent la times:
A new poll
recent la times:
A new poll has found that a November ballot measure to replace the death penalty with life without possibility of parole faces an uphill battle with California voters.
The USC Dornsife/Los Angeles Times survey found that Proposition 34, which would commute the sentences of California’s more than 725 death row inmates to life with no parole, was trailing 51% to 38%.
But the survey also showed the gap became a statistical dead heat once respondents were told the measure would require convicted killers to work while in prison, direct their earnings to their victims and earmark $100 million for police to solve murders and rapes.
Proposition 34 would make life without parole California’s toughest criminal punishment. Proponents have argued it would save hundreds of millions of dollars by eliminating complex death penalty trials, reducing appeals and eliminating single cells on death row. The nonpartisan legislative analyst’s office has said the measure could save the state as much as $130 million annually, an amount supporters of capital punishment dispute.
But the survey found that voters were not swayed by projected savings. Opponents of the measure outnumbered supporters by the same margin—46% to 44%–even after they learned that abolishing the death penalty might substantially reduce state spending.
Pollsters said the findings did not bode well for Proposition 34 and demonstrated that views about the death penalty remain entrenched.
October 19, 2012 @ 6:33 PM
Most voters are stupid,
Most voters are stupid, ignorant pricks. News at 11.
What they don’t realize is that CA has abolished execution for all practical purposes. A handful of executions since the 80s, and about a thousand death sentences. It’s not a penalty. It’s a lottery.