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SD Realtor
ParticipantYep you are right about the other realtors using the 700k as a comp and that really does stink. The home is definitely the 7943 address. It was listed with Coldwell Banker in the fall for 120 days at 669-689k. The listing expired and got relisted with Coldwell at 689k.
Now here is where it gets bad. The day before the agent moved the home from active to pending status, he repriced the home. So that is something that raises my eyebrows.
So really what you should ask the seller is this (as I did not doubt what you were saying was true)…
1 – Did the realtors know about this out of escrow transaction?
2 – Did the appraiser and mortgage broker know about it?
3 – Was it mentioned anywhere in escrow?
I would imagine at least answer 1 will be yes which is pretty darn sad. The seller is lucky to find a buyer who is such an idiot.
SD Realtor
Participantno such reality – thanks for the fraud lessons. I already understand the definition. I am hopeful that someone within the industry can give me some perspectives from their experiences. Also if you look at my questions they were not querying the income verification or asset verification, they were questioning the 3% cap that is a pretty tough nut to get around.
sdr, bugs, sda, jim k care to comment?
It just seems to me that everyone here is making this sound like it is the norm and that it is very easy to do, that everyone is in cahoots and I am saying that is not the case. Again, I don’t discount that agents may not have tried to pass this on to some of you. However I still maintain it is a high likelihood it would not have worked.
I guess I am stupid.
SD Realtor
ParticipantI know this makes me sound like a homer for the industry which I am really not. However I want to analyze some of this more in depth. Hopefully other agents, appraisers and others can correct my analysis where I am wrong.
– First off call me stupid…. Lets go to the example where a home sold for 500k but the buyer didn’t have the downpayment… if someone cannot afford the downpayment, if they are getting the money back from the seller AFTER closing, how did they get the escrow to close at all? I do not see how the transaction would have made it through underwriting.
Bugs, SDA you guys have any comments on that?
Okay so following the logic posted, the buyer would instead get a loan for 530k and get 100% financing, and then out of escrow after closing the seller would cut the buyer a check for 30k. Hmmm… Okay well why wouldn’t the buyer simply buy the home for 500k at 100% financing? Why would the buyer incur a higher property tax assessment, why would the seller possibily incur a higher cap gains tax (if it was an investment property)?
Alex good for you for spotting that trick the Realtor was trying to pull on you. Pardon my skepticism but I don’t believe it would have ever worked anyways. If the house was selling for 700k then the most most most you could have got back would have been 21k as a credit. I don’t see how underwriting would have passed this transaction through. Furthermore you would have had to be very careful how the verbage was in the contract.
Guys I am not saying fraud doesn’t happen because it does…and there are a TON of sleazy agents, even brokers and even appraisers… then go to the lending industry and oh man… talk about a can of worms… I am just throwing in my two cents… I applaud you guys for saying no to this sort of thing. I recall Powayseller told me someone close to her who was selling a home encountered a buyer who wanted to pull some shenanigans like this.
It is bad for the industry. My point here is that it really does not benefit anyone, buyer or seller. I am not trying to discredit or discount that it didn’t happen to any of you.
SD Realtor
ParticipantI am not one to question your sources of information but there was no MLS information on 7947 Prairie Shadow. According to realist that address doesn’t exist. There is a listing at 7943 that sold recently for 700k. It originally listed at 689k flat and then repriced to the old value range of 669k-700k. It sold for 700k. If the seller told you he gave back 60k then so be it, I will not question you about that. However this is not a case where there was a sales price that was way above the listed price of the home. The home was financed 100%, a first and a second from our friends at New Century.
ParticipantKev I very much hope you are right. However Hillary may very well be our president. If this depreciation cycle mimics the others then she will be walking into the white house right when we are at maximum you know what hitting the fan. I am not ready to discount how much damage she can do…
Hang in there mixx…
SD Realtor
ParticipantCarlsbad, as for the comps in the area I always use the MLS data so in that case I would have used the 615k. I am not positive of what Dataquick uses.
SD Realtor
ParticipantGood point… As you stated there have often been errors in the Realist tax roll… So yep maybe fraud maybe not. Sorry I cannot find any more info for you CarlsbadL…
SD Realtor
ParticipantCarlsbadliving –
Ahhh Crestmont… We looked at one that went active there recently….
Smells like a rat to me. Here is what I see on the MLS.
Listing went active at 675k as original list price. Close of escrow was 8/15/06. Now if you look at the sold listing on the MLS, Prudential listed the property and One Source was the selling agent (buyers agent). Now ON THE MLS, and sdrealtor or some of the others here with MLS can double check for me, the sales price says 615. (That is pulling up the SOLD listing for this DETACHED home) Note that this is what the listing agent ENTERED on the MLS for this home, 615k. I think this is important to note.
Now I then pulled up the tax roll from realist (again from the MLS). This buyer used Wells Fargo to finance 492k on the first and 123k on the second. So here is our old 100% financing buddy. HOWEVER, as you noted, this tax roll DOES INDEED state a sales price of 698k.
Smells bad to me Carlsbad, very bad. This is just what Inile was referring to. No I cannot explain AT ALL what went on here. I have some ideas but none of them are good. I do want to stress the listing agent entered 615k as the sales price. I do believe something bad happened here.
sdrealtor, bugs or sda any thoughts?
SD Realtor
ParticipantI would agree that is it fraud as well. I have seen smaller amounts per what SDA quoted. I have not been involved in anything like that personally.
In – I agree that there are many people out there in my industry who make others look bad. I am not condoning or apologizing for the actions they take. I do not really they are doing this for the commissions like you state. More then not the people that benefit the most from this are the people who get the under the table money. It is much more of a risk for the broker to be involved with this sort of stuff. Take your 60k example. Okay so 3% of 60k is 1800 bucks. If it is large brokerage that gets cut up between the broker, agent, maybe even part of corporate. Again I do not think it is worth the risk. Again I am 100% in agreement with you that this data adds distortions to the market that are unacceptable. We just differ on why it is being done.
Please recall not to long ago on this site someone posted an idea about buying a home (and he was doing this without an agent on either side) in a manner that was not quite on the level and many on this board commented that we didn’t think it was a great idea.
I heartily agree with SDA that Sandicor should absolutely change the rules of reporting concessions in the sales price.
ParticipantOdd that you took my post as personal criticism. Noting that you took my statement opposite of what I intended to point out is not a personal criticism. You seem to mistake disagreement with criticism. I have posted my website and my personal information on Piggington before and was told that is not permissible. If you would like my personal information you can email me at [email protected]. I am sure you can find plenty of fodder and dig up plenty of dirt on me. I have never claimed to be a top producer nor a 20 year experienced agent. That doesn’t really bother me at all. I know that the people I have worked with were happy with my work and felt I was professional and saved them money regardless of whether they were a buyer or a seller. If you note I am strictly sticking to the topics of the post and commenting on statements you make.
SD Realtor
ParticipantWaiting-
The market you have referred to is my home base. I also have been frustrated by the Scripps (Old Scripps) market. However I am not sure I have seen many overbids. Can you refer to the actual addresses for the homes that you have seen overbid? I can research them and give you more information. I am not sure I agree with you for Mira Mesa but give me some examples and I will look them up.
I am in very much the same boat as you and getting a new wife is not an alternative. I just gut it out when she starts beating me up about how everywhere has fallen but the homes we want. Let’s see what happens as the summer gets late. As I have previously posted, for many weeks in the spring, Scripps inventory dipped and stayed near 70 homes. Last I checked it was at 95 which bodes well.
In – Which home were you referring to? I recently moved from the Calle Cristobal area. In fact the Cheryl Ridge listing that I believe is active (it just RELISTED on the MLS) is the home we used to rent. Also the home around the corner from us sold last year and I thought there was something fishy about that sale. Not only did it sell after expiration but the price seemed out of whack to me. My sister in law at Coldwell also sold one a few blocks away on the canyon last year.
SD Realtor
ParticipantGuys don’t forget also that in each of these cases the good faith deposit was most likely kept. The builders have a VERY quick contingency removal.
SD Realtor
ParticipantDean it is nice debating with you.
So my statement,
“Places that have established owners with alot of equity will ride it out pretty well… to the frustration of people like me who want to live there.”
implied to you that I was wishing people ill will.
The statement is/was meant to imply that the neighborhoods that I want to live in have experienced little depreciation nor have they experienced many defaults. If you have read my postings then you know I have a family who DESPERATELY wants me to buy a home AND that I have submitted lowball offers in the past few months. You would also recall in my postings that I have indeed said that if you can afford to buy and you can afford to ride out the depreciation cycle that you should go ahead and buy. Furthermore I believe you also have read my postings on what I believe to be immeasureable (monetary wise) factors that are achieved by home ownership.
I am also puzzled on how you thought that I was implying that those who are well established should fail. Dean my whole point was those who are well established will not fail which is exactly why I believe some neighborhoods will hold up. They will simply ride things out because they don’t have to sell. They have equity, they have not selected risky loan vehicles, and they are stable homeowners.
With that said, if I implied that I would be happy by pain and suffering and misfortune upon people, I am sorry. However I will be happy for a market correction because it will be good for the market, and it will benefit me personally so that I could afford more home in the few neighborhoods that my wife and I agree on. I am a renter and I am bitter I didn’t buy more property when I could have and that I am priced out of where I want to live right now. I still own 2 rentals as I recently sold one of my others a few weeks ago. Again though, I do disagree with you about the statement in your posting about “taking a chance” regarding homebuyers.
SD Realtor
ParticipantDean –
I cannot recall a single post where I wished bad things upon any people at all. I have said over and over again that people who could not afford a home should never have bought one.
Please do not preach to me about the American Dream Dean. The American Dream is to own a home and it is a priviledge not a right. You don’t buy a home because you deserve it, you buy a home because you have put yourself in a spot to where you can buy it. I have NEVER advocated to ANYONE in the past to buy a home that I didn’t think they can afford. What you said about people taking a chance is EXACTLY why the housing market went to where it should not have gone. You should not “take a chance” when you buy a home Dean. You “take a chance” when you go to Vegas, or when you ask a out who is way out of your league. You don’t “take a chance” when you buy a home. I am not kicking anyone who is down. If they bought a home and didn’t understand the ramifications of the situation they got themselves into then that is unfortunate. I don’t distinguish between it being a house or a car or running up the old credit card. I don’t wish that upon anyone but it has happened to alot of people. Overall it is healthier for our society and economy as a whole if consumption is kept in check by the means of the consumer.
It doesn’t matter if it is engineering or real estate of which I do both, logic matters.
SD Realtor
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