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[quote=svelte]This is more like the officers I’ve known:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/31/us/flint-michigan-protest-police-trnd/index.html

Truly good people who took the job for much the same reason that firemen and health care workers often do: they like to help people.

I know 3 San Diego police officers. One I worked with before he joined the force. He’s a bit of a wild man and that has caused him an issue on the force which I’ve read about in the paper. He’s black and seems to have calmed down as he’s gotten older.

The other two I became friends with in other social circles and we hit it off with them and their wives, so we socialize a lot. I’d trust them with anything of mine. I cannot imagine them doing anything even remotely unethical and the stories they can tell – San Diego has some crazy shit go on!

I can also tell you that every time – every time! – we go out with them, someone in the restaurant or concert will pull them aside and start talking. When I ask who that was, it is almost always a fellow officer.

So….the light bulb went off. If there is an officer at every public place we go to with them, there is one at every public place we go to without them also. So you’ve no doubt run into a lot of them too. You’re just not aware of it.

And I still say – if you truly believe something is corrupt and you do nothing, you’re a part of the problem. Take action if you’re so convinced there is a better way. That is way more productive than typing on a real estate forum.[/quote]

true. at the end of the day, although I know in my heart this is not a good system, it is working out very well for me. there is zero chance i would protest. I enjoy the way things are. I know it is wrong though.

this conflict makes me uneasy. but not enough to take any personal risk.

ask them if the first few years on the job, they wouldve ratted out chauvin. see if you believe their answer.

they would not. america does not reward speaking truth to power.

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[quote=outtamojo]Yes we all have feelings and judgment but as professionals, we should be…professional.[/quote]

i dont’ even know what the word “professional” means.

really good at?

specific licensing requirements?

oversight by governing body of similar professionals?

certainly their profession is not governed by us and
does not significantly penalize roughing up suspects under most circumstances when they dont die.

you have to really screw up. if you want more professional behavior, you need way more accountability, way more fear from the cops amongst each other and their employer. That’s just not the culture.

we dont control the police. they control us. I’m not sure what it would really take to change their culture. Probably the only thing that would possibly work is financial pressure through litigation that would eventually cause them to lose funding.

but that’s not an avenue the courts will allow.

for now, they a re their own profession with their own code of conduct and they dont’ particualrly have to answer to me or you. or anyone, really.

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[quote=outtamojo]a whole room full of cops applauded when trump suggested being rough with suspects.[/quote]

i think the truth is, in our hearts, though we won’t admit it, we all like to see a little pretrial rough justice. it seems…just. we are not robots. neither are cops.

should not a bad violent man get a little ass whupping upon arrest? Would that violate your sense of justice? not law, not procedure, not the constitution…but your own sense of rightness…

if you can carefully look in your own heart to see if that feeling is in yourself…and i think it’s there, if just a little kernel of it…might it not also exist in a cop’s heart too?

and if we want it to stop, the penalty for doing it must be more than nothing. because that’s where we are at. this case, on video, national riots, worst case scenario–may walk. but the little ones, where they don’t die…

nothing. no worries.

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[quote=svelte][quote=scaredyclassic][quote=svelte]You’re right scaredy.

All cops are assholes who would cover up their own buddies doing anything.

In fact, had you been standing there, you would have run right over and pushed the cop off of him because you are not a bad citizen. It would have been immediately obvious to you that the man was dying. You would have been first one to do the right thing. I can see it now. The man with the handle “scaredy” saving a man’s life.

I think you should join the police force and clean that organization up.[/quote]

citizens have no duty to rescue. You could be dying in the street and i could walk over your body with no repercussions.

Cops on the other hand arguably have a duty to rescue. So if they see someone in distress, they are legally required (some believe) to rescue.

Also, only an idiot would have assaulted the police in that situation.

If floyd had died with no witnesses, I guaranfuckingtee you those other officers would not have ratted out their buddy. 100% guarantee. Hell, it wouldn’t have been “apparent” anything wrong was done. Guy was “resisting” we tried to restrain, him, he basically brought it on himself.

And the police report would have been fictional. and signed off by all involved. There is zero doubt in my mind as to that.

Maybe policing wouldnt be as dangerous if we hadn’t created a militaristic police state with a seriously disenfranchised underclass.

But it is what it is. The police are SUPPOSED to be taking grave risks. that’s what they signed on for. it’s just that society has evolved into a very messed up situation. I wouldn’t be a cop under any circumstances, let alone the current clusterfuck.[/quote]

You’re part of the problem. You’ll bitch and complain but you won’t take action. You’re a bad apple through inaction.[/quote]

i suppose, in part. This is a pretty big systemic problem, complicated by the reality that it is divided up into thousands of local cultural subsets and departments.

Kinda like blaming some dopey commuter for global warming for driving his escalade.

in my humble opinion, saying this is just a “bad apple” cop and the average cop would’ve turned this guy in, is just absurd. they by and large tolerate misbehavior from their cohorts, same as they would in the military at war. us against them. they would die for each other. having such close relationships is part of the pleasure of the work.

frankly im jealous of that. i would love to experience that. I am far too physically weak and introspective and hesitant to ever be a police officer. I would last 12 minutes.

reportedly there were 18 civilian complaints against the killer. maybe we will find out how many co-officer complaints there were. My money is on ZERO.

I never said all cops are assholes. I woudl say virtually all cops stick together, especially ina situation where there is any possible ambiguity and there is little chance of being detected…but even if there isn’t, they keep their mouths shut. that is the culture.

hell even in corporate america you don’t move up the chain by making a lot of HR complaints.

a change in culture might be one where officers are REWARDED for making allegations that can be substantiated against one another. like a crimestopper reward.

promote successful snitches.

make partners rotate very frequently, so they don’t become personally attached to one another.

The odds of that happening; very very very low. i hate to say zero, but…zero.

have them regularly review allegations of misconduct and show them regular firings involving misconduct to show the seriousness of the matter of getting a verifiable complaint.

and the song fuck tha police does not reflect my personal feelings; it’s just alarming that it reflects so many citizen’s feelings….

seems like only yesterday the polcie were in such a tizzy about disrespectful colin kaepernick. cop union wanted to boycott the games. funny…

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-police-union-boycott-49ers-colin-kaepernick-20160902-story.html

“the union for police officers who work San Francisco home games says its members may boycott policing the stadium if the 49ers don’t discipline Colin Kaepernick for refusing to stand during the national anthem and for his statements about law enforcement….”

kind of hilarious in a dark way….cops definitely are not good at taking criticism.

and seriously, I think the cop has a good chance of walking…so why is there any need for his fellow officers to report him? he hired the philando castile case lawyer, so the lawyer knows how to win. i’d lay odds, 60/40 he walks.

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[quote=svelte]You’re right scaredy.

All cops are assholes who would cover up their own buddies doing anything.

In fact, had you been standing there, you would have run right over and pushed the cop off of him because you are not a bad citizen. It would have been immediately obvious to you that the man was dying. You would have been first one to do the right thing. I can see it now. The man with the handle “scaredy” saving a man’s life.

I think you should join the police force and clean that organization up.[/quote]

citizens have no duty to rescue. You could be dying in the street and i could walk over your body with no repercussions.

Cops on the other hand arguably have a duty to rescue. So if they see someone in distress, they are legally required (some believe) to rescue.

Also, only an idiot would have assaulted the police in that situation.

If floyd had died with no witnesses, I guaranfuckingtee you those other officers would not have ratted out their buddy. 100% guarantee. Hell, it wouldn’t have been “apparent” anything wrong was done afetr the fact without normal citizen input. the cops wouldve agreed, Guy was “resisting” we tried to restrain, him, he basically brought it on himself. shit happens.

And the police report would have been and signed off by all involved. There is zero doubt in my mind as to that.

Maybe policing wouldnt be as dangerous if we hadn’t created a militaristic police state with a seriously disenfranchised underclass.

But it is what it is. The police are SUPPOSED to be taking grave risks. that’s what they signed on for. officer safety should not be so far above citizen safety. but that’s what’s happened. No risk is tolerable for the officer. We need to make sure the cuffed guy on the ground cant wiggle.

society has evolved into a very messed up situation. I wouldn’t be a cop under any circumstances, let alone the current clusterfuck.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=svelte][quote=scaredyclassic]If u have 10 bad cops and 1000 good cops, and the 1000 good cops dont turn in the bad cops, you have 1,010 bad cops .

Which is prety much the set up. You cant snitch and make it as a cop. No way.

[/quote]

There are channels in the PD for officers to report other officers. You and I are not privy to how often that channel is used for privacy reasons.

But I can imagine that the police union is a lot like the teachers union, meaning it is difficult to get a union member removed.

If a police dept has a bad apple, I don’t we can assume it is because his fellow officers didn’t report the bad apple. As one of my friend officers said recently, nobody hates a bad officer more than a good officer. Nobody.[/quote]

https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-police-officers-on-Quora-that-can-honestly-say-they-would-have-used-force-on-a-colleague-to-save-George-Floyd-had-they-been-one-of-the-3-standing-by

oh, police officers do not routinely snitch on each other. Your buddies are lying. they dont’ like cops who make them look bad, but they don’t file complaints on each other except in unusually rare occasions, and only then when they think it’s going to come back at them. Like, no way that is common.

Civilian complaints go nowhere. Intercop complaints are very rare.

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[quote=outtamojo]I dont know how they are ever going to find jurors.[/quote]

dont worry. every single human thinks they can “be fair”. plenty of eligible jurors out there who have “formed no opinion or judgment” on the matter, they will say under oath. They’ll keep an open mind. Video? I don’t recall seeing any video. Mustve missed it.

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[quote=spdrun]Is there proof that he was on drugs? Also, what about occluded blood flow?[/quote]

they’ll find something.

occluded blood flow? speculative. cause of death cannot be determined. reasonable doubt. not guilty.

[scaredyclassic]

guilty on the lesser, maybe assault with force likely to produce great bodily injury. but no murder. just doing his job. good supervisor reviews, other cops approved obviously, they were there, he wouldnt be committing murder if he knew he were being filmed, right? seems like a slam dunk for a not guilty on the top charge.

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Anyone who still insists on being black in this society is just bring hardheaded and stubborn. They judt need to get with the program and be white.

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[quote=Hobie]Don’t piss into the wind and don’t do stuff that attracts cops. duh[/quote]

Being black definitely arouses suspicion. A fully masked society would at least cut down on bad stops.

Best course of action is to be born not black to family of good means. Duh.

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If u have 10 bad cops and 1000 good cops, and the 1000 good cops dont turn in the bad cops, you have 1,010 bad cops .

Which is prety much the set up. You cant snitch and make it as a cop. No way.

Its pretty weedy. No one can keep thrir job and call a weed a weed.

Is the current system essentially fair and good, is our policing system basicalky just cept for a few bad apples?

Where you stand depends on your zip code

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Dont get me wrong. I call 911 when im in trouble. But if i had bern dealt a different hand i prolly would avoid the cops

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Here was 4 that thought it was cool to choke a guy out on film.

Is that a bad apple or a systemic thing.

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[quote=svelte]Well lets not lump all police together.

I have a few that are close personal friends of mine and I can tell you that, at least my police friends, are very intelligent, warm, and funny people. And I can assure you they are not racists in the least. Far from it.

Are there bad apples? Sure. But the majority that I’ve personally met are great folks.

The one common trait I do see is that they like to step in if they see an injustice…I’m more picky and let sleeping dogs lie until it gets to be too bad to ignore. They step in way earlier than I do. Which spooks me sometimes but they are probably way more used to it and know they can have their uniformed buddies on the scene in just a couple of minutes. Me, I can’t say that.[/quote]

I wish I could take credit for this, but as Chris Rock said….
I know it’s hard being a cop … But some jobs can’t have bad apples. Some jobs, everybody gotta be good. Like, pilots. American Airlines can’t be like, ‘You know, most of our pilots like to land, we just got a few bad apples that like to crash into mountains.’

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