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scaredyclassic
Participanthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG6EoivssP0
yeah this old dude is an inspiration! but really, he is just asking for a beatdown, hacking with so much swag like that in public…
Participantone perspective is this is just a few bad apples, lets look individually case by case and assume most cops are acting in good faith.
another possibility, not unsupported by tapes and the behavior of the nonaggressor cops, is that this kind of violence is acceptable and toelrable within the law enforcement community.
i just dont see outrage as undermining police authority.
i think outrage is what might preserve police authority.
tolerance is intolerable…
Participantshoot, fear of a black planet and 911 is a joke is 25 years old. feel like only yesterday i bought the cassette for my walkman.
imagine all the unrecorded beatdowns from 1990 forward….
Participanths is not preparatory for life
Participantto me, the problem isnt really the officers giving a beatdown on the tapes.
its how their partners stand by all cool like, business as usual. an dlie lie lie for their bud
thats what makes it all seem so casual…
its the critical mass of cell cameras and social media that is making it all come to a head.
Participant“911 Is A Joke”
Hit me
Going, going, gone
Now I dialed 911 a long time ago
Don’t you see how late they’re reactin’
They only come and they come when they wanna
So get the morgue embalm the goner
They don’t care ’cause they stay paid anyway
They teach ya like an ace they can’t be betrayed
I know you stumble with no use people
If your life is on the line they you’re dead today
Late comings with the late comin’ stretcher
That’s a body bag in disguise y’all betcha
I call ’em body snatchers quick they come to fetch ya?
With an autopsy ambulance just to dissect ya
They are the kings ’cause they swing amputation
Lose your arms, your legs to them it’s compilation
I can prove it to you watch the rotation
It all adds up to a funky situation
So get up get, get get down
911 is a joke in yo town
Get up, get, get, get down
Late 911 wears the late crown911 is a joke
Everyday they don’t never come correct
You can ask my man right here with the broken neck
He’s a witness to the job never bein’ done
He would’ve been in full in 8 9-11
Was a joke ’cause they always jokin’
They the token to your life when it’s croakin’
They need to be in a pawn shop on a
911 is a joke we don’t want ’em
I call a cab ’cause a cab will come quicker
The doctors huddle up and call a flea flicker
The reason that I say that ’cause they
Flick you off like fleas
They be laughin’ at ya while you’re crawlin’ on your knees
And to the strength so go the length
Thinkin’ you are first when you really are tenth
You better wake up and smell the real flavor
Cause 911 is a fake life saverSo get up, get, get get down
911 is a joke in yo town
Get up, get, get, get down
Late 911 wears the late crownOw, ow 911 is a joke
Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=njtosd][quote=CA renter]
If I have to choose between showing mercy for criminals who have no regard for innocent people vs. cops who show little/no regard for criminals, I will come down on the side of cops every single time. Of course, I do hope that cops use discretion and maintain their composure when dealing with suspects and criminals, but I also understand that they can make mistakes, and that they are dealing with the dark underbelly of human society, which will definitely cloud their perspective.
[/quote]
CA Renter – you seem sweetly unaware that people who like pushing others around (or worse) are disproportionately attracted to positions of authority. (Look at the history of the BTK killer, for example, or the ongoing issues with security guards). The more benefit of the doubt that you give them, the more attracted the bad actors are going to be. We want it to be very clear that being a police officer is not a license to play fast and loose with other people’s Constitutional rights.
And just to be clear, I don’t think all police officers are bad. I also don’t think all bartenders are alcoholics, but it has a certain appeal . . .[/quote]You seem sweetly unaware of my understanding and position on this, njtosd. Read through this thread if you want to understand it a bit more:
http://piggington.com/ot_temecula_police_dui_checkpoint_8am_on_a_wed_morning
I’m fully aware of the fact that law enforcement positions attract power-hungry sociopaths. But it’s wrong to paint the entire profession with that broad brush, and it’s wrong to assume that every incident where someone is injured or killed is an example of police brutality or proof of racism.
Yes, police brutality exists, and I want to extinguish it as much as anyone, but riots, mass hysteria, and killing cops isn’t going to make it any better. If anything, it will make these problems worse.[/quote]
i dont think anyone believes all cases where there is an injury equals brutality. but theres enough of a bad cop attitude for the public they serve to lose trust. not every community gets the same servinge…
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1hsvl_public-enemy-911-is-a-joke_musicremember
remember “911 is a joke” …. from public enemy about 20 years ago … it’s not like this problem hasnt been festering a looooonnnnggg time….
ParticipantAPI wise I don’t think any of these fancy sd. schools are more than a few points better than Temecula ca.’s great oak hs.
It seems like temecula would be filled with a bunch of redneck morons if you didnt know better but the students here are serious hardcore academics and kick as athletes.
Participant[quote=harvey]http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Father-of-Four-Claims-Santa-Monica-Police-Made-Rough-Arrest-303145441.html
An ordinary family man charging his electric car in a public space provided specifically for that purpose.
Beaten and pepper sprayed.
A civilized society must enforce it’s laws.
Violent criminals must be prosecuted and sentenced to prison.
The victim has a beautiful family. I hope they can find peace on this Mothers Day.[/quote]
on the other hand, here, taking the caR position, he did refuse to identify himself to the police when asked. The police couldnt know whether or not they were dealing with a potentially violent criminal …he couldve been out on bail for murder, for all the cops knew. He was asserting what he believed to be his right to not produce his identification because in his mind (probbaly correctly) he hadnt committed a crime. But the police did not know that. He was int he park just minutes before “closing time”, so he was on the verge of committing a crime; being out too late int he park. it’s almost an attempt to vioalte that city ordinance of being out too late int he park…. had he not exited the park within just four minutes, he would have been in violation of the law. Therefore, since he was in the park almost too late, and was of a certain sex and age and perhaps race, and was noncompliant with office commands to provide identification, the officers could use their collective experience, common sense, streets smarts, spidey sense and intuition, to say, this person might very well be a dangerous criminal, and they could use reaosnable force to get him into submission, including throwing him to the ground and pepper spraying him, because he was obstructing their investigation.
which makes one wonder; if the police ask you for your identification, and you’ve done nothing wrong, do you have to give them your id?
sounds like a simple question, right?
the answer is actually unclear.
bottom line: maybe technically legally yes you can refuse to give id, but its a dopey maneuver and for practical reality, its dumb to refuse,and may very well result in getting beaten and pepper sprayed. Assuming you are trying to avoid police escalation resulting in potentially severe injury for no reason, which is really the smartest way to negotiate through the situation, , just produce your license, assuming youve done nothing wrong.
Participantnot sure if cops are more likely to be sociopaths, but come on, a cop is more likely than average to think violence is a reaosnable solution to a problem. i think that’s common sense.
they are more likely to beat their wives, for instance…
is it the stress of their job that makes them beaters…or are beaters more likely attracted to that line of work?
i think a cop is justa tool, like an engineer, to achieve an end. dont let the tool think it is running the show. the tool must not overestimate its ability to determine what the big picture is…
Participantpolice work is not as dangerous as being black male.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-fleetwood/how-dangerous-is-police-w_b_6373798.html
Participant[quote=flu]Punk cop…
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/08/us/delaware-police-kick-video/index.html%5B/quote%5D
That ones pretty damned cold. On the bright side he just broke the guys jaw for no reason. Didn’t kill him. No deadly harm, no foul.
If you were that defendant would you ever trust any cop ever again?
Probably not.
Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=njtosd][quote=CA renter][quote=spdrun]Sport, revenge, punishment, whatever. They’re accused of overstepping their authority. If they’re convicted, they need a few decades to think about what they did.[/quote]
We don’t yet know what caused his injuries, or why. We need to see what comes out in the trial.
In no way am I condoning what the cops did if they caused his injuries and subsequent death. We just need to know all of the details before we start accusing them of “killing for sport” (or revenge, etc.). If it turns out that they did more than just try to subdue/arrest him, then I’m all for jail time. But we just need to know more before we can make that judgement.[/quote]
There is a legal theory referred to as “res ipsa loquitur” which roughly means “the thing speaks for itself”. It is used to describe a circumstance where fault is presumed based on circumstances. Freddie Gray was riding a bicycle when the police began chasing him, so one can only surmise that his spine was intact. He was arrested and placed in a van, unrestrained (against policy) and emerged with a severed spinal cord. I can barely think if a more clear res ipsa case. I agree that an exlanation should be provided, but unless his spine sponateously broke in two, i have a hard time even imagining a scenario where the police are not at fault. The degree and distribution of guilt does require some investigation.[/quote]
I’ve never claimed that the cops weren’t at fault, only that the claim that they did it “for sport” is hyperbolic and hysterical. We do not know all the details. From what I have read and heard from interviews with witnesses, when the cops restrained him, his legs were bent back at an odd angle with a cop’s knee on his neck. IMO, that sounds like a plausible cause of the broken spine. If you look at the footage of them dragging him to the van, it certainly appears as though his legs are not functioning correctly, though it’s not uncommon for suspects to be dragged to a police vehicle because they are not compliant. I can see why the cops might not think that anything was wrong with him at that point.
Were the cops trying to injure/kill him or showing a blatant disregard for his life, or were they simply trying to restrain someone who was clearly resisting arrest? That’s the central question here, IMHO.
As for his shouting that he was in pain, couldn’t breathe, etc.; lots of suspects do that when they’re arrested so that they can go to the hospital instead of jail. Cops hear that all the time. Of course, they technically should call the paramedics at that point (and obviously shouldn’t have loaded him into the van unrestrained, if that’s against their rules), but I think that a lot of cops get tired of that “I’m injured/sick” ploy, so some of them might not go along with protocol. That usually works out…until it doesn’t.
Again, we have to see what comes out in the trial(s) in order to determine whether or not they should be convicted, but to assume that they did this for sport is over the top, IMHO. There is clearly not enough evidence to support this (not saying it isn’t true, just that there doesn’t seem to be any evidence to support it at this time).
Let me be clear: I am not defending them at this point because Freddie Gray is dead, and there is no question that rules were violated on the cops’ part. I just dislike the witch hunts where every cop is assumed to be guilty of the worst crimes, even when the evidence doesn’t necessarily support the narrative.
If we want to avoid “street justice” for criminals, then we certainly owe cops the same consideration.[/quote]
The “ignoring medical complaints usually works out until it doesn’t” and is “technically” wrong comment seems coldly utilitarian. once youre in custody, for a short or long time, you’re at the mercy of the system and its players.
some small percentage of people may be actually innocent, a larger percentage overcharged, and some guilty, obviously, with each group potentially being a malingerer with a complaint…but everyone is dependent on the police to address medical needs. They have a duty to provide care, like a lifeguard has a duty to rescue, or a teacher has a duty to his charges…
cops obviously arent doctors, and probably presume virtually everyone is malingering or exxagerrating symptoms to some degree, unless they’re visibly in shock or have juicy visible wounds. But if a cop is going to play doctor, and make a medical judgment, hey this ones a faker, then , well, they’re violating the law, by practicing medicine without a license, and open themselves up to all kind of liability.,
many hate the idea that inmates of any stripe get medical care at all, since those on the outside who havent been accused get no free medical care. but thats part of the cost of running a system of mass incarceration that we have. the medical bills are going to be high. For the police to “screen” complaints is essentially saying, let the police practice medicine without a license, be our gatekeeper, like some cop/nurse practitioner.
on the statistically inevitable times when they get it wrong, them it seems fair to hold their feet to the fire, civilly and criminally, for when their illegal medical practice goes haywire. feel free to play doctor, mr and madame constable, but dont be surprised if the community you serve finds your errors to be the result of a depraved indifference to human life when you’re judgment is so dumb it results in someones swift demise.
of course, if it were your kid who died in custody because he had a knife on him, after voicing complaint of some internal injury to the police, the heartlessness of a lack of medical treatment would not seem part of the cost of doing business. it would seem absolutely sick and depraved on the part of the police.
imagine your son was writing in pain on the floor of that van, in his death throes, pleading for his life, feeling the a pain tantamount to torture, as the police took him for their trademark rough ride, looking back in satsifaction as his frail sweaty body bounced on the cold metal floor of the van, causing his final departure from this earth, where he would never again be held in your arms, his life cut short so that he would never marry, you would never see grandchildren, you would never hear his laugh…well, you might continue to feel as you do…
if you could say a few final words to him as he lay dying on the cold metal floor, would you say, hey dont do the crime {no matter how trivial) if youre cant do the time or also are not willing to possibly die at the hand s of the police…would you say “hey, shit happens”……. or would you be banging on the door of that truck, trying desperately to catch the attention fo the police, just as your son was doing in his final death throes, . And at that moment, perhaps you would realize, hey, those are actual beloved, precious, irreplaceable HUMAN BEINGS the police are taking into custody…not meat to be taken to the slaughterhouse….
these are our neighbors, our beloved children, our fellow countrymen…it doesnt seem that way…we as a nation have come to think of them as human trash…but they are not…
i know in my heart that cold utilitarianism would be out the window if it was one of yours in that van.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=spdrun]
Why do you HAVE to upgrade it NOW and make it look like something out of Martha Stewart? People are complete woosies. A 1960s or 1970s kitchen with a new stove, fridge, and dishwasher (under 2 grand) is just as functional as a modern one. Bathrooms: laying tile is cheap if there’s nasty old carpet there.
The whole “zOMG we must remodel now” thing is idiotic as long as the basic systems of the house are intact and functional.[/quote]
Not idiotic. It’s about being driven by perfection.
I’m partial to sleek euro kitchens and baths with handgrohe fixtures. More pleasing to look at everyday.[/quote]delay delay delay. Save so much money. If I can delay some more maybe we will move before we do anything big.
If you’re sluggish it’s amazing how fast 5 years can go by without an oven. Now it’s been so long wife no longer thinks we need one!
Why replace h eating/ac …so expensive to do plus higher utility bill. Delay!!!
The biggest savings come from just not doing anything.
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