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NotCranky
ParticipantCaRenter, I don;t no anyone who comes home and is totally off work. Most people work a lot at home when they are not at the wage job. What about two working parents? They just both sit around when they get home? I never see that.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Blog star, absolutely, people should have an array of choices to do what makes them happy.
You’re thinking self-fulfillment on an individual and family level. I’m thinking society in general, and policies and laws concerning marriage.
I believe a large number of women (more like a majority) want to be sahp and they want protection. It’s not really about equality in that men can do it too. Men who go about becoming homemakers and seeking provider spouses the same way women do will never make it.[/quote]
Seemed like your personal world view that the options with women are terrible I didn’t really see the policies and law context in your comments so much. Just a lot of naysaying and over exaggeration of how bad women are. I am surprised a progressive liberal doesn’t see all kinds of women they could potentially work with despite a potentially terrible system…almost seems like a hoax.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Blog star, absolutely, people should have an array of choices to do what makes them happy.
You’re thinking self-fulfillment on an individual and family level. I’m thinking society in general, and policies and laws concerning marriage.
I believe a large number of women (more like a majority) want to be sahp and they want protection. It’s not really about equality in that men can do it too. Men who go about becoming homemakers and seeking provider spouses the same way women do will never make it.[/quote]
iParticipantMan am I glad you are joking. I personally wouldn’t get hung up on what a lot of women want and do that is counter to your sensibilities. That’s like women being sure you are going to beat them one day because more men beat and kill women.
I don’t think we raise boys to be homemakers, nor should we. I think we should raise boys and girls to have a broad array of choices to go with their personalities and to be somewhat comfortable negotiating life, including how homes are made, to the best of their abilities in cooperation with others ,not as paranoid adversaries. I know there is some natural adversary stuff in the sexes but people get carried away.
I know about all of those assumptions… People make assumptions about very intelligent liberal men who make a good living, are reasonably well off , are rarely if ever in a relationship, and have dogs…
Anyway, we know people will judge…I think the ones that are most judgmental are pretty trapped somehow. Like the Mexican men that are paranoid about being mandilon while their wives dominate them. We have that too…pretty neurotic attachment to gender roles in a culture that doesn’t need it.Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Blogstar, you are too kind and positive.
Surely you can imagine the social pressure a man would face if, at the onset, he declares that his goal in life is to be a homemaker.[/quote]
I wonder about that, I had very little parenting and my parents were deceased by the time I was 20, so I was sort of free of that….My dad was not as cool as scaredy.
Worrying about what other people think and do is always optional.
I was very nervous about my vision when I was young….to women on a middle class or higher trajectory , women with brains, I think I was pretty much good enough to play with but not marry. Women have generally always liked me so I could have gotten the exposure to receptive types. I came from a terrible childhood and thought that was against me…too scary. Had I been a stronger person though, I could have brought about any scenario I wanted to. I probably walked away from a good one or two for lack of confidence.Like anyone, I had to be careful not sell my soul…I was afraid of that. I was afraid of bad endings too. It never occurred to me to be anything but a hybrid type that I have been talking about…not a full time stay at home dad, not a sole “breadwinner” … Now , I could sort of approximate full-time SAHD indefinitely if I want to, there are some business things I handle but not much. With the kids in school they don’t really need a stay at home parent . My wife is totally cool with it , she is getting what she always wanted and doesn’t see why I shouldn’t choose. Still, its a transitional time.
.A young man today at least up to 40, could probably put out an add or just date women and include interest in marriage and full time homemaking and do pretty well. Probably get some interesting dates. You have to believe you are a good catch at that and be sincere, I suppose. It would take some cajones…but I think that is usually true.
ParticipantBased on 50 years of observation I have decided that if I knew pretty much anyone very well I would see that they are really not in a position to judge what other people do. We are all so easy to disqualify from that role.
On this thread some people expressed the idea that friends and family would be “mean” to stay at home dads, I think only a person who doesn’t have any friends could say that. What kind of family is that? With my friends I am sure that amongst ourselves we judge each other or have some jealousies at times , but it isn’t like we torture each other over differences. My main feeling is that my friends want me to be well and happy and be in their lives. My brothers and sisters seem to always have been more or less proud of me…but if they weren’t , hey too bad.
There are only two people in a relationship that have to see the value of what the other person brought and brings to the relationship/family and does. That said, in terms of the way we do things,I have gotten pretty good feedback/treatment and most of the direct negativity has been in my own head. My in-laws are probably a little bewildered but they can see we are doing at least as good of a job as they did. It is going a lot better than many people who are dependent on two incomes or compelled to have two full time incomes. Not that some aren’t doing fine. A lot of families under duress by that though. Recently, a elderly woman who works at the local hardware store and is also my neighbor, announced to the other employees around and to anyone else nearby, ” here is the worlds greatest SAHD!”. I know a lot of people feel that way, or positive about it anyway, not many men who are not my close friends probably, but I think most men have too much “jerk” in them anyway. Maybe that’s unfair but It doesn’t appear reasonable to expect much from the typical guy on this one.
ParticipantIf it came on “suddenly” , I would think maybe I was a chicken, getting cold feet and if it came on suddenly after 3 years I am not sure I would blame the other person for being immature. They may be, 3 years is a long time many pretty mature people would have some difficulty. Maybe the person who has this sudden change thing happen is immature too. So that maybe is a good reason to take a step back and see what comes of it. Maybe you will do some soul searching that can’t happen without the separation and maybe the whole thing would be a relief , but you can’t know.
My friends (I am not too involved with my family) were pretty good judges of the women I dated. They liked my wife as an individual and for me right away.
They were right.ParticipantI don’t want to go to any movies or read any books about divorce. I am too smart for all of that.
Participant[quote=Blogstar][quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Blogstar] May as well not get married and instead carry on like a relationship/ opposite sex know-it-all on the Internet.[/quote]
Technology is changing things. Most people now meet on the Net so the social institutions such as church and even parents have less say in how young people interact.
Whereas porn was only playboy magazine before, it’s widely available online now. Not seen as “perverted” anymore. There is 3D porn so virtual sex could be the next tech advancement.
Marijuana is being legalized. Why not prostitution like in holland?[/quote]
I would prefer it was all legal. Not to say I recommend use, or especially dependency on any of it…but legal. Dependency might even be ok for some people. A healthy individual or social body will be healthy and sick one will be sick…kind of like a plant…a healthy plant in a healthy environment is less vulnerable to pests and disease. This stuff is self regulating here as it is in the Netherlands and crippling excess should be nothing more than a signal that something is wrong…making these things illegal hasn’t really done anything good.[/quote]
…or maybe the idea is to be dependent on porn and prostitutes AND be an Internet expert on relationships and the opposite sex?
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Blogstar] May as well not get married and instead carry on like a relationship/ opposite sex know-it-all on the Internet.[/quote]
Technology is changing things. Most people now meet on the Net so the social institutions such as church and even parents have less say in how young people interact.
Whereas porn was only playboy magazine before, it’s widely available online now. Not seen as “perverted” anymore. There is 3D porn so virtual sex could be the next tech advancement.
Marijuana is being legalized. Why not prostitution like in holland?[/quote]
I would prefer it was all legal. Not to say I recommend use, or especially dependency on any of it…but legal. Dependency might even be ok for some people. A healthy individual or social body will be healthy and sick one will be sick…kind of like a plant…a healthy plant in a healthy environment is less vulnerable to pests and disease. This stuff is self regulating here as it is in the Netherlands and crippling excess should be nothing more than a signal that something is wrong…making these things illegal hasn’t really done anything good.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=6packscaredy]The thought of being a stay at home dad makes me feel ill.
[/quote]
Me too. That’s why stay at home would have to be in the big city. I would hate to have my life limited to interacting with the same circle of a couple hundred people all the time. I’d have to deal with their unreasonable demands all the time.[/quote]
Sounds like it worked out pretty well for you, Scaredy.
I knew I wanted more of a hybrid situation since I was 16. I got the idea from a few families around my house. Never had expectations of following the traditional SAHM pattern or mega career. That much dependency /choice annihilation would be terrifying. I think this next generation is more comfortable with full time SAHD…not sure. If the guy had his own money before getting married that would help. I see stay at home moms with nearly grown children that went in completely for that role and they don’t seem too nervous…probably had some money before they got married, or see a decent nest egg built up in the family. Maybe they trust their spouses tremendously….probably a mix.
I am glad for people who go the career route too. Who would fix our teeth and do other valuable things if people didn’t do that?
Participant[quote=6packscaredy]The psychic rewards to the SaHP seem like a form of some compensation. The worker may have paid with her soul to stay with her work while the “sacrificer” experienced numerous moments of transcendent bliss.[/quote]
Getting what suits you to some degree more than what doesn’t is compensation. Soul pays sometimes either way.
Participant[quote=6packscaredy][quote=CA renter][quote=6packscaredy]Stay at home dad’s give up their most study handsome years?[/quote]
No, but they do give up major income earning potential when they are SAHDs.[/quote]
Speculative.[/quote]
Definitely speculative.Participant[quote=6packscaredy]Well. You can send them to public school. There’s aftercare. They can fend for themselves a bit.
I don’t know. I have some divorce knowledge though I’m sure it’s way different from the inside. It’s bad to depend too heavily on others without providing a clear corresponding benefit.
Or as my wife tells my kids … do not marry a woman who dies not have an oar in the water.
That can be defined a lot of ways but it does seem like some partners are not very useful. Not very good at their tasks and are not sacrificing much. Bad partner choice.[/quote]
Marry someone with a heart and an oar.
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