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NotCranky
Participant[quote=UCGal][quote=Blogstar]We put more and more kids on Meds about the time this kid was young and we have more psyhco young men going on killing sprees than before and we think them getting off meds is the problem, not putting them on meds in the first place? Man I would have been really angry if my dad and the system succeeded at putting me on meds shortly after their divorce and my moms death , knowing what I know now that would have been a travesty of justice of a high order.
Living with the stigma of mentally ill, 6,7 ,8 years old, with all the normal expectations and a prescription is really a raw deal. It doesn’t set these kids up well in anyway. Most adults can’t even go out in public if our car isn’t late model …how about living with your being not good enough through grade school and forever after?
The kid going off his meds is just part of his decision to finally say fuck you. But the decision was likely made before he quit the meds BECAUSE THEY DID NOT WORK! Big pharma must love it when society at large deem the meds successful and getting off of them being the cause of tragedy. I don’t believe it.[/quote]
I struggled with the medication issue for my son. All the “experts” were saying it was the right thing to do. I researched like crazy and was very uncomfortable with using drugs that effect brain chemistry on an undeveloped brain. I’m really glad I listened to my instincts.
It’s very hard for parents to know what the right thing to do is. Every authority was telling me one thing and my instincts were screaming the opposite. I understand why parents do it – they are told by experts its the right thing to do. They may not have the resources, intellect, etc to educate themselves and they might not have the personality to stand up to authority/medical personnel.
As mentioned before – my son did have a brain chemistry issue. But now that I know it was due to an enzyme problem – I also know that the meds would have been ineffective. That’s one of the issues with this MTHFR mutation – SSRIs and other psychotropic drugs are much less effective.
But – you have to cut parents some slack. The vast majority of parents are doing their very best to do right – and it’s very hard to figure out what “right” is.[/quote]
I am really glad it is working out for your kid and your family, UCGAL, Good job.
I could cut some individual parents some slack, you have no support in going after them anyway, even when the schools or doctors know the family is a complete disaster , which is often the case, not much can be done and instead the often dysfunction is used as leverage to get the kids into the pharma system if anything. …the systematic use of this crap the way I see it applied, no way. It’s parasitical and the hosts are the kids. It’s child abuse and or help perpetuate child abuse.
Participant[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=Blogstar]G-d we’re stupid.[/quote]
stupid? perhaps. i prefer lazy, uncaring, cold, distant, impatient, disgusted and lame.[/quote]
Yeah but we make up for all that with being selfish, greedy, materialistic and conceited.ParticipantG-d we’re stupid.
ParticipantDrugs don’t take care of kids, people do…or not.
ParticipantWe put more and more kids on Meds about the time this kid was young and we have more psyhco young men going on killing sprees than before and we think them getting off meds is the problem, not putting them on meds in the first place? Man I would have been really angry if my dad and the system succeeded at putting me on meds shortly after their divorce and my moms death , knowing what I know now that would have been a travesty of justice of a high order.
Living with the stigma of mentally ill, 6,7 ,8 years old, with all the normal expectations and a prescription is really a raw deal. It doesn’t set these kids up well in anyway. Most adults can’t even go out in public if our car isn’t late model …how about living with your being not good enough through grade school and forever after?
The kid going off his meds is just part of his decision to finally say fuck you. But the decision was likely made before he quit the meds BECAUSE THEY DID NOT WORK! Big pharma must love it when society at large deem the meds successful and getting off of them being the cause of tragedy. I don’t believe it.
ParticipantAre psychiatry and pharmaceuticals good for young children?
The kind that aren’t born demons and the kind that are?
When a person pretty high on the pecking order takes his kid to a psychiatrist does the Dr. dare say hey…maybe he is lonely and not getting what he needs at home or rock the boat in anyway? Or does the whole bunch of them blame the kid, find out if insurance is good, and do more harm than good making the kids hell even more hellish and stunting him for life?
How much faith should we have in a system that works this way?
I think it’s a bad assumption to make that because psychiatry and drugs didn’t do the trick that the kid was a hopeless case. Possibly pretty primative view, however mainstream.
ParticipantKind of starting a new or additional theory, I wonder if this guy had been victim of sexual abuse or seen some pretty disturbing stuff to go with the divorce and possible neglect.
That someone is born a demon or something like that, that’s just fantasy, probably some holdover from religious myths about the devil or similar stories.
That doesn’t make me a denier of mental illness , just want to say that those accusation don’t do anything but short circuit logical investigation.O.k. So I searched it, other people already made similar conjecture public in various venues. The guy had sexual issues enough to drive a lot of people crazy. A lot of people don’t like the questions at all.
Participant[quote=AN][quote=zk][quote=Blogstar]The guy had a complete lack of desire, skill and training in using his will constructively. Nobody talks about the guys will and direction. He is no different than the people who beat Reginald Denny or Loot and Riot and burn their own neighborhoods. His class/life experience just puts a different spin on it. We just can’t admit that it is us too.
Part of raising children is teaching them the correct use of their will. It’s hard and you have extreme cases of lack of training or abuse to the point of confusing people about even using the will properly or having one to use at all. People may be stronger and weaker and that makes it even more dangerous, but still in all cases you have to look at this aspect and we don’t. Our culture is trash in a lot of ways life is fricken hard whether you have money or not and just having money doesn’t mean kids should not be taught mental health through training their wills. Kids are exposed to so much soul pollution now the have to be stronger and we want them weaker evidently, No different than the physical, use it or loose it and this guy never used it and there is a lot of that going around.
He wasn’t especially mentally ill he was especially weak and untrained for whatever reason.
Yes fix some of this and it will help with the gun problem, The suicide problem, the depression problem and the drug problem.[/quote]
Ok, but “fix some of this” how? If we could legislate good parenting, we could fix all kinds of problems. But we wouldn’t be a free country anymore. Education programs for parents? They’d have to be optional, and only those who want to put effort into their parenting would take them, so that wouldn’t solve much, as those parents aren’t the problem. Stop blaming mental illness? Wouldn’t change a thing, IMHO. Parents who don’t have the time/attitude/aptitude/concern/work ethic to be good parents will find something besides themselves to blame.
Bad parents will always exist, and they’ll be especially numerous, if you ask me, in a culture that glamorizes violence and personal gain, minimizes the importance of personal responsibility and work ethic, and focuses on the shallow.
The only way to fix the problem you’re talking about is, in my opinion, to change our culture. And good luck with that.
I’m not sure how you can claim “he wasn’t especially mentally ill.” There are lots of actual mentally ill people in this country, and that’s not going to change anytime soon. As I’ve said repeatedly before on this forum, our country fails to do anywhere near enough for them. This is just one more manifestation of that failure.[/quote]
+1[/quote]You probably can’t do anything for a lot of people by the time they are 22.
As far as cultural improvements go , I agree ” good luck with that” . Still why not broaden the topic as oppose just pretend that it’s a mystery where mystery doesn’t really exist that much.
This guy is no different than my brother who committed suicide at the same age on the innate madness scale. More is attributed to what I posted about than innate madness. We have no way of proving it, especially because it’s hard to even get people to think about it.Participant[quote=SK in CV][quote=Blogstar]The guy had a complete lack of desire, skill and training in using his will constructively. Nobody talks about the guys will and direction. He is no different than the people who beat Reginald Denny or Loot and Riot and burn their own neighborhoods. His class/life experience just puts a different spin on it. We just can’t admit that it is us too.
Part of raising children is teaching them the correct use of their will. It’s hard and you have extreme cases of lack of training or abuse to the point of confusing people about even using the will properly or having one to use at all. People may be stronger and weaker and that makes it even more dangerous, but still in all cases you have to look at this aspect and we don’t. Our culture is trash in a lot of ways life is fricken hard whether you have money or not and just having money doesn’t mean kids should not be taught mental health through training their wills. Kids are exposed to so much soul pollution now the have to be stronger and we want them weaker evidently, No different than the physical, use it or loose it and this guy never used it and there is a lot of that going around.
He wasn’t especially mentally ill he was especially weak and untrained for whatever reason.
Yes fix some of this and it will help with the gun problem, The suicide problem, the depression problem and the drug problem.[/quote]
Question for you…do you think people with schizophrenia are just weak? And if only they were stronger, they wouldn’t have hallucinations?[/quote]
Quit bothering me unless you want to try to get something out of what I am saying.
ParticipantThe guy had a complete lack of desire, skill and training in using his will constructively. Nobody talks about the guys will and direction. He is no different than the people who beat Reginald Denny or Loot and Riot and burn their own neighborhoods. His class/life experience just puts a different spin on it. We just can’t admit that it is us too.
Part of raising children is teaching them the correct use of their will. It’s hard and you have extreme cases of lack of training or abuse to the point of confusing people about even using the will properly or having one to use at all. People may be stronger and weaker and that makes it even more dangerous, but still in all cases you have to look at this aspect and we don’t. Our culture is trash in a lot of ways life is fricken hard whether you have money or not and just having money doesn’t mean kids should not be taught mental health through training their wills. Kids are exposed to so much soul pollution now the have to be stronger and we want them weaker evidently, No different than the physical, use it or loose it and this guy never used it and there is a lot of that going around.
He wasn’t especially mentally ill he was especially weak and untrained for whatever reason.
Yes fix some of this and it will help with the gun problem, The suicide problem, the depression problem and the drug problem.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Blogstar]The statement was the he came from a “good Family” how does anyone know?
[/quote]I don’t know, but I’m assuming.
It’s like when you a get letters of recommendation. how do you know the people who wrote them are “good”? you’re just assuming.
you may assume that good parenting is spending a lot of time at the job the parenting, talking and playing and spending all your free time with the kids. I think it may turn them into needy adults, who have to call their moms at every little setbacks.
I think that sending kids to boarding academy and seeing them only during the holidays is good parenting. It depends on the children, but generally, I think it’s good.[/quote]
Well your assumption doesn’t seem to be holding up. Looks like a case of Elliot Rodgers=Garbage in Garbage out.
ParticipantBiggest risk factor is blaming everyone else or blaming the “illness”, too many excuses. Anyone close to pre-school and kindergarten age kids in school can see that there are parents , when confronted with socializing their children, who indoctrinate kids into the blame game, escape game, and parents who don’t. I am afraid of and for the children from the parents who don’t quite get responsibility , and they come from all walks of life.
Look at the Helen Keller story, well kind of fiction too probably, but at some point I am pretty sure she was insane,probably a lot more than this kid, but the risk factors for a devastating life were turned around. Why not with other people in a similar way? That’s what I believe, this stuff is not set in stone it’s an attitude as much as innate and our who society an Annie Sullivan intervention to get things straight.
Participant[quote=spdrun]
iin his mind, he was trying, but his effortsinvolved extremely ineffective attemptsbasically just walking around and smiling at girls.
Exactly, so the rejection was mostly in his head … I’d suspect that 99% of the women didn’t even notice he was interested, and the other 1% may have thought it was a passing smile, not really to be acted on.[/quote]
Sounds like garden variety neurosis to me.
Participant[quote=zk][quote=scaredyclassic]…but…gosh…there’s lots of mentally ill people who don’t act liek this…[/quote]
No doubt. It’s only one factor.
Lots of people are mentally ill. Lots of people are socially inept. A smaller but still large number are both. And only a tiny percentage of those will actually lash out violently. Nonetheless, considering that most spree killers in this country these days are socially inept, it seems obvious that it’s an important factor. Which makes sense, given the toll that years of merciless social torture from your peers must take on a person.[/quote]
I wouldn’t trust his griping about other kids to be so much about the other kids, not from this guy. He can, in a very “misplaced” way, start blaming everybody else for his unhappiness at a very very young age.
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