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August 24, 2014 at 8:35 AM in reply to: st. louis cop: “If you don’t want to get killed, don’t show up in front of me.” #777591August 24, 2014 at 8:29 AM in reply to: st. louis cop: “If you don’t want to get killed, don’t show up in front of me.” #777590
NotCranky
Participant“When people don’t get along in a relationship they should just kill each other”
It’s kind of a relief that they found out he was this crazy after what he did in Ferguson. What if there was no proof that he was anything but normal?
Sure there are a lot of messed up cops though. I think some of them In LA would be gang bangers if not cops. Maybe some of them would have been skinheads too. It looks like a lot of them would be soldiers if not cops or were previously soldiers. Hmm should I join or stay in the ARMY or be a police officer? We should be grateful that those are not our two best career choices. Maybe we should make a quota that a certain amount of police new hires had to have formerly been kindergarten teachers or florists.
ParticipantIf the person isn’t completely problematic , I would try not to worry too much about how they differ from me….that could be a disease.
Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=Blogstar]Obama could come out and say “look , the police are going to make mistakes or commit crimes, sometimes terrible ones, but we don’t have all the facts yet. If this cop was out of line with duty , justice will prevail, If he was doing his job and defending himself Mr. Brown should have been a better citizen” He doesn’t say that. He knows he didn’t bring hope and change to Ferguson so he has to cover up by scapegoating the cops by letting the racist innuendo fly. Bread and circuses at it finest lead from the top.
The whole race and poverty thing is mired in dirty politics.[/quote]
Brilliant.[/quote:
I forgot to say thanks. Thanks : ).Participant[quote=harvey][quote=Blogstar]Why is this a time for Obama to go on about the plight of black youth? There are multitudes of actual murder scenes involving young black men that present opportunities to do that. [/quote]
I’ve heard this argument in quite a few of these debates and it clearly shows how some folks just don’t get it.
Everyone acknowledges that criminals killing people is a problem. The killers are criminals and are regarded as such by the authorities. There’s no debate about “black on black” killings. Everyone agrees they are murders committed by criminals. No laws need to change. Murder is already illegal.
The debate is about people who kill, but are not treated as criminals.
The riots in Ferguson are not about the death of a black man. They are about the perceived double standard that is applied to the person who did the killing, based on the race of the victim.[/quote]
The rioting and looting are because criminals wanted to riot and loot. I wish people would quit saying that there is any other reason.
Perception is key, even Obama said that. Perception is a big problem here. Heuristics might make it seem like blacks must be targeted by cops but given crime rates by race they are not. Incidence of violence with police will be more prevalent when your culture is more violent. Higher incidence with violence with cops does not mean cops get away with boldly murdering good black men like the “perception” is played out. When crime rates are considered blacks are under represented in having repercussions with cops and courts. This is statistics not emotion. Did you know you can win a nobel prize for pointing out how bad we are at using statistic for making judgements?
Interesting that Obama used the opportunity to praise his “My Brother’s Keeper” program. Who knows if it will ever work but it should keep the ruse alive that democrats will actually do shit for the little guy…the money will go to Enfranchised members of non-profits for the most part and donors will gain political favor. and the multitudes of poor blacks will continue to get worse but vote democrat. Lather rinse repeat.
It’s not me who doesn’t get it.
ParticipantI know you better than that Brian. Everybody knows where you are coming from and that’s why much of your stuff just turns out to be so much spin. Because it is spin. Tyranny my ass. Where there is failure and you can try to shift the blame it’s tyranny…if you can’t shift the blame you have some other excuse.
How many times can we play charades with the boy would cried wolf with so much money time and energy? To find out it’s a sham? This encourages copy cats. Obama and Holder should be smart enough to know that they are begging copy cats, rioting looting copy cats offending all kinds of peoples rights and destroying property ! Taking it seriously does not mean taking advantage of it or covering your tracks at other people’s expense and the expense of common sense.
ParticipantI disagree. Though I did mean to include the possibility of a police shooting an individual in other climates. They should be punished too if it was reckless.
MIke Brown’s mother was on tape talking about how hard it is to raise a black boy in Ferguson and get him to finish High School. I read some stuff about the high school he attended. This is not a great place.
What about the civil rights of all the people being robbed, shot, and oppressed in violent communities?
If gerrymandering is one sided then that needs to be addressed. I could be wrong about this but I believe the DA is a democrat and has held his post for something like 18 years. I don’t think representation correlates with success that much WRT the African American although it seems desirable, Look at New Orleans. New Orleans, is in the United States, has plenty of black representation from Barrack on down, much of the black population , hope and change constituents) and much of the white is not doing well at all. I think that can be demonstrated in many locations where you can’t point the finger at seriious inequality in racial distribution of leadership anymore…especially if you consider what great advocates democrats are for the poor. Advocating for their votes is all.
Gerrymandering is not an excuse to assault a police officer or expect someone from your community to get away with it. It’s about money and power and Democrats and black people are not spreading it anymore than anyone else is. The corollary goes to your example of impoverished hick religious fanatic voting republican a lot of good it does them.
Participant[quote=utcsox][quote=Blogstar] He knows he didn’t bring hope and change to Ferguson so he has to cover up by scapegoating the cops by letting the racist innuendo fly. Bread and circuses at it finest lead from the top.
The whole race and poverty thing is mired in dirty politics.[/quote]
Here is the full transcript of Obama’s response on Ferguson. http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/running-transcript-obamas-remarks-on-ferguson-mo-and-iraq/2014/08/18/ed29d07a-2713-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html
Where is the “racist innuendo” that you are referred to?[/quote]
O.k. His speech was not as bad as I thought.
The response , including sending Holder and committing substantial DOJ resources to Ferguson on what basis? That the person shot was black and people are rioting. I read that 50 DOJ personnel were put in the case, on what basis? We have no information that it is even likely that the cop cold blooded murdered a guy . Nothing to say there was a civil rights violation. Even if there was do we need this kind of response to get to the bottom of it? I don’t think so. Common sense is being violated.
Why is this a time for Obama to go on about the plight of black youth? There are multitudes of actual murder scenes involving young black men that present opportunities to do that. So admit you have to do it because of the riots and looting and because al Sharpton a few other black lawyers and the media are completely out of control , not because of the potential crime. It’s Trayvon Martin all over again. Only this time Obama was smart enough not to say the Alleged “victim” could have been his son. Politics of race is the only reason for him to get involved. His constituents are going nuts.
If Bush or even Bill Clinton were president would it be reasonable to send the attorney general and 50 DOJ personnel out to Ferguson on this probable non-case?
One aside, When the police shoot someone in self defense or there is the potential that occurred , the word victim should be reserved for after a conviction. A person who instigates retaliation against himself by a cop if the cop is cleared, he is a dead criminal.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Blogstar, don’t we already give cops plenty of passes? Their words are already more valuable in court. Prosecutors already defer to the police.
Already, there’s plenty of brutality and abuse, not ncessary for law enforcement, but to satiate the petty power of the cops. Shouldn’t we draw the line somewhere?
It’s not about race. It’s about police abuse and police killing. As was mentioned before, those same cops receive ongoing training, support, paychecks, healthcare, and pensions from the government.
Don’t you think that cops who snap should be punished and removed from the system?
And if cops are expected to snap, why wouldn’t a community that lives without representation rise up?
I don’t mind double standards when the higher standards of behavior apply to the people with power. You seem to suggest the reverse where the cop gets a free pass, while other offenders must submit to the magnanimity of the court (if there even is such magnanimity). Why shouldn’t the cop submit to a court?
Providing support to poor disenfranchised community is a multigenerational social commitment. There are ebbs and flows in the political will to do so.
Punishing crimes, to punish the perpetrators, and to make examples for deterrence of similar crimes is something we do everyday.[/quote]
I said very clearly that police officers who snap should be punished , but that it should be expected now and then. I think that’s honest. It should be expected to happen in the worst areas to police. Either that or do like some departments do to some extent and just write off neighborhoods . Nobody wants that either except the criminals.
That’s right, change in poor disenfranchised communities isn’t happening over generations even though big promises have been made…don’t blame the cops for that.
ParticipantObama could come out and say “look , the police are going to make mistakes or commit crimes, sometimes terrible ones, but we don’t have all the facts yet. If this cop was out of line with duty , justice will prevail, If he was doing his job and defending himself Mr. Brown should have been a better citizen” He doesn’t say that. He knows he didn’t bring hope and change to Ferguson so he has to cover up by scapegoating the cops by letting the racist innuendo fly. Bread and circuses at it finest lead from the top.
The whole race and poverty thing is mired in dirty politics.
ParticipantHarvey, Of course, if it’t terrible to police an area, it’s probably terrible to live there.
No I don’t think the cops should get a pass if they shoot someone wrongfully , after all they choose the job. I am saying people should not be surprised when something questionable happens to the extent they go beserk with rioting a looting. This problem of violence and crime is enormous and there will be mistakes made, just as in any war. Totally Scapegoating the cops rather than dealing with the culture that provides “no training and no support” is not going to help.
As to your young person, no, they are responsible too. No free excuses for anyone. Of course, if a judge finds reason to mitigate punishment for youthful offenders based on evidence of character or apparent sincerity to reform, I am o.k. with it.
ParticipantThere are few human beings that can handle the stimulus and pressure of being a cop in the inner city , or other low social functionability zone. The people who could manage that , they are actually so special that many way better opportunities would fall into their laps. It would be ridiculous for them to risk such an environment.
That the cops snap now and then shouldn’t surprise anyone. I don’t get why there should be an expectation that they don’t on occasion.
So cameras are good. But it won’t make the situation better. Better policing will put even more pressure on the low functioning residents. More black cops would lead to a tendency for corruption or lower desire to actually fight crime. Not because black people are inherently corrupt, but because that is the way the stimulus and pressure would guide them. The problem is how the people function much much more than how the police function. The situation is that overwhelming.
I pretty much don’t like most cops but I can see that they , the best that will actually take the job, get stuck choosing between a war and avoidance of one and everyone is ready to blame them when the problem is largely out of their control.
ParticipantThe problem for B is that the rioters and looters are primarily Obama constituents and they are worse off after 8 years of his presidency. They are the lowest rung of democrats and they are screwed still.
ParticipantWith all the speculation based stories out there I wonder why a likely hood that the giant committed “Suicided by Cop” isn’t getting more press. Maybe is was un-premeditated suicide by cop?
ParticipantI dont know if there are any “legit ” witnesses. I have read rumors that there are plenty but I don’t know.
I don’t know if the cops are going to lie like crazy , I don’t know if they have a whole lot to lie about or not.
Crazy biased people have a reason to lie and guilty people have a reason to lie.
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