ot ferguson

[UCGal]

[quote=pabloesqobar]No surprise that some folks have already determined the cop should be charged and locked up. Despite having no clue what happened on the ground, or when deadly force is authorized.

What we do know:

1. This teenager was a 6’4″, 300 pound man. He is bigger and stronger than most men, including the police officer that shot him.
2. Him and his buddy just robbed a store using physical violence. And they were on their way to another store. Apparently, they feel comfortable being thugs and bullies, to do what they want and take what they want. Who in their right mind is going to say no to this dude?
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/darren-wilson-ferguson-police-officer-who-fatally-shot-michael-brown-identified/
4. Him and his buddy boldly walked down the middle of a street, blocking traffic. Who would dare to say anything to them, other than a cop?
5. When told to move, they refused, which led to an altercation, which led to the shooting. So far, we have the police officer’s word and the word of the bully friend that just robbed a store, as to what went down that led to the shooting.
6. The buddy that didn’t get shot gave his statement right away. He claimed he saw his thug Buddy running away, and the Cop shot him in the back.
7. The autopsy revealed he was not shot in the back.

For now, I’ll take the police officers word over those of the thug criminal friend. I’m guessing he also neglected to mention they had just robbed a store.

But most of what you see through the news are baby pictures, how much of a gentle person he was, he would never hurt anyone. And this must be the result of racial profiling by a racist cop.[/quote]

Point by point:
1) Agreed.
2) The report of the convenience store theft was not out yet – it was in process of being reported. So cop had NO knowlege these guys had allegedly robbed the store. It could not have factored in to the cops behavior because he didn’t know.
3) (you missed this.)
4)agreed.
5) I would say at least one party is lying. Perhaps everyone. We do not know if the cop is/was lying…
6) nothing to dispute.
7) The autopsy by Baden says the shot to his arm shows 2 possible things.
a) he was shot from behind (not good for the cop) OR
b) he was shot when his hands were in the air or over his head in self defense. (not good for the cop).
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/did-michael-brown-have-his-hands-up-when-killed-by/article_f9904f19-dba5-58b4-ac4b-56b9bda29646.html

For now, I think mistakes have been made on all sides. The looters and rioters (vs protesters) give a bad name to anyone who questions what happened. The cops have mishandled it from the beginning – there should have been transparency, a suspension of the cop during the investigation, etc. Instead the Ferguson police stonewalled any inquiry or questions and operated in a very heavy handed way… contributing to the escalation of what happened on the streets. Assault weapons aimed at protesters is going a bit far for most people’s taste. Enough errors on both sides to keep this going.

[FlyerInHi]

I’m biased against killing people.

Killing a person is the ultimate act.

It doesn’t matter if the police officer was attacked. People with guns need to show restraint and not shoot when it can all be avoided. Public pressure is a legitimate reason for someone to be arrested and charged. The jury will decide guilt or innocence.

The way I see it, just because someone punches me through my car window doesn’t give me to right to park the car, get out, give pursuit and kill that person.

The lack of transparency from the police department just also add to suspicion from the community.

[PCinSD]

[quote=FlyerInHi]
It doesn’t matter if the police officer was attacked. [/quote]

Fortunately, the law says otherwise.

[quote=FlyerInHi]Public pressure is a legitimate reason for someone to be arrested and charged. [/quote]

In your mind only. In the mind of a Prosecutor, the facts and applicable law of a particular case is the only legitimate reason. To do otherwise would most likely result in discipline, firing and disbarment.

[quote=FlyerInHi]The way I see it, just because someone punches me through my car window doesn’t give me to right to park the car, get out, give pursuit and kill that person.[/quote]

In that irrelevant scenario which has no basis in reality, perhaps not. Nice try tho.

[quote=FlyerInHi]The lack of transparency from the police department just also add to suspicion from the community.[/quote]

They are being as transparent as they need to be since this is an ongoing investigation. But you’ve made clear you only want transparency as long as it fits your agenda.

[FlyerInHi]

Prosecutors routinely file complaints against people only to see the charges dismissed. No disbarment.

See other thread about Bana Mouvakeh.

[CA renter]

Thanks for your insightful comments, pabloesqobar. I think Brian is in pure troll mode at this point. His posts have absolutely no basis in reality and show a complete lack of common sense.

Sorry, Brian, but you’re just not making any sense. I’m guessing you’ve never had an altercation with a much larger, possibly armed thug who had no regard for your life or well-being.

[NotCranky]

The problem for B is that the rioters and looters are primarily Obama constituents and they are worse off after 8 years of his presidency. They are the lowest rung of democrats and they are screwed still.

[FlyerInHi]

CAr, the reality is that your standard for shooting someone to death is lower than mine.

You’re willing to forgive the taking in a life more easily. I feel that no matter what Brown did, or who he is, Wilson should not have pursued and killed Brown. There are ways to arrest suspects without killing them.

At one point the standard for pursuing and killing fleeing suspects was lower and the Supreme Court changed that It’s a good thing.

[no_such_reality]

Interestingly there are articles out today about use of body cameras by police citing a Cambridge study of a year long trial in Rialto, CA

Putting cameras on officers reduced the number of incidents in which force was used by 59%. The number of complaints about force fell an even greater amount

IMHO. The results would be the about the same elsewhere if the cops knew they were being recorded. It’s the same reason the LAPD had such a high degree of disabled antennas on their recorders for the car. Te police don’t want to be recorded because them whatever they say is assume to be true

We are trusting them with a gun and a decision to potentially kill someone having a camera to verify isn’t too much too ask

[FlyerInHi]

The data speaks for itself. Cameras restrain the petty power of the police.

The disabling of recording equipment by the LAPD is an indication that petty power is endemic in the department.

Cameras are so cheap these days. We should use them in all police cars.

[PCinSD]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Prosecutors routinely file complaints against people only to see the charges dismissed. No disbarment.

See other thread about Bana Mouvakeh.[/quote]

That’s not what we’re talking about and you know it. The issue is whether Prosecutors should use public pressure, rather than the facts and law, to charge people with crimes. You think the former, and whether charges are dismissed is irrelevant to this issue. Keep trolling.

[quote=FlyerInHi]CAr, the reality is that your standard for shooting someone to death is lower than mine.

You’re willing to forgive the taking in a life more easily. I feel that no matter what Brown did, or who he is, Wilson should not have pursued and killed Brown. There are ways to arrest suspects without killing them. [/quote]

Your personal standard is irrelevant. You are free to have whatever phony baloney opinions you want. But you might want to put out that disclaimer before you engage in a debate about what the real facts and real law are.

It could make you appear less . . . wee todd did.

[quote=FlyerInHi]The data speaks for itself. Cameras restrain the petty power of the police.

The disabling of recording equipment by the LAPD is an indication that petty power is endemic in the department.

Cameras are so cheap these days. We should use them in all police cars.[/quote]

Agreed.

[FlyerInHi]

Prosecutors face public pressures all the time. They have wide discretions and their decisions are virtually unreviewable.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-prosecutors-decide-which-cases-charge.html

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/im-victim-a-crime-can-i-force-prosecutor-bring-charge

Some would argue that the prosecution of Zimmerman was because of public pressure.

I believe that CAr was talking about the reality of a confrontation with a large individual, the stress and reality of being on the street in a less than genteel neighborhood.

[NotCranky]

There are few human beings that can handle the stimulus and pressure of being a cop in the inner city , or other low social functionability zone. The people who could manage that , they are actually so special that many way better opportunities would fall into their laps. It would be ridiculous for them to risk such an environment.

That the cops snap now and then shouldn’t surprise anyone. I don’t get why there should be an expectation that they don’t on occasion.

So cameras are good. But it won’t make the situation better. Better policing will put even more pressure on the low functioning residents. More black cops would lead to a tendency for corruption or lower desire to actually fight crime. Not because black people are inherently corrupt, but because that is the way the stimulus and pressure would guide them. The problem is how the people function much much more than how the police function. The situation is that overwhelming.

I pretty much don’t like most cops but I can see that they , the best that will actually take the job, get stuck choosing between a war and avoidance of one and everyone is ready to blame them when the problem is largely out of their control.

[CA renter]

Good post, Russ.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Blogstar]There are few human beings that can handle the stimulus and pressure of being a cop in the inner city […][/quote]

It’s tough being a cop with a beat in an inner city?

Then what’s it like to live there?

[quote]That the cops snap now and then shouldn’t surprise anyone. I don’t get why there should be an expectation that they don’t on occasion.[/quote]

Are you seriously suggesting that cops should get an occasional “pass” — that they can break the law and hurt someone once in a while because their job is stressful?

Can we apply to same principle to young men who have received no training, have no support, and don’t get a paycheck from the government?

Why do they get a bullet, instead of a “pass?”

[NotCranky]

Harvey, Of course, if it’t terrible to police an area, it’s probably terrible to live there.

No I don’t think the cops should get a pass if they shoot someone wrongfully , after all they choose the job. I am saying people should not be surprised when something questionable happens to the extent they go beserk with rioting a looting. This problem of violence and crime is enormous and there will be mistakes made, just as in any war. Totally Scapegoating the cops rather than dealing with the culture that provides “no training and no support” is not going to help.

As to your young person, no, they are responsible too. No free excuses for anyone. Of course, if a judge finds reason to mitigate punishment for youthful offenders based on evidence of character or apparent sincerity to reform, I am o.k. with it.

[Author]

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