[NotCranky]

I see what you are saying Ray and you too heavyd.
In the end I feel like the first reponder, esmith, for the most part, answered the question three pages ago.

[NotCranky]

“HELOCs don’t have a positive yield.. they have a cost. You get charged the interest… it is not paid to you. The interest rate charged on an HELOC is higher than a standard mortgage.”

I understand that, but in effect the yield on the bill paying money by reducing the interest to be paid on the heloc vs. getting a pittance in checking acct. is a net benefit. That is why I called it the “High yield checking aspect” on the bill paying money and of course, the money in excess of the bill paying money that must be put into the system to get the house paid off. There is merit there, as compared to what, is the question. The actual program without the extra money isn’t going to do much that is for sure.

So, even in a best case scenario, the system in question is not much different than any other send more money program. It is just a tool. It is going to have to come in a better package than the two presented here so far for sure, but it could have some appeal and worth to some borrowers. I don’t see how a serious borrower gets around the fact that Helocs are adjustable and the start rate isn’t beating a fixed by much if any…and we should all be expecting mortgage rates to get worse. IMO

[NotCranky]

“HELOCs don’t have a positive yield.. they have a cost. You get charged the interest… it is not paid to you. The interest rate charged on an HELOC is higher than a standard mortgage.”

I understand that, but in effect the yield on the bill paying money by reducing the interest to be paid on the heloc vs. getting a pittance in checking acct. is a net benefit. That is why I called it the “High yield checking aspect” on the bill paying money and of course, the money in excess of the bill paying money that must be put into the system to get the house paid off. There is merit there, as compared to what, is the question. The actual program without the extra money isn’t going to do much that is for sure.

So, even in a best case scenario, the system in question is not much different than any other send more money program. It is just a tool. It is going to have to come in a better package than the two presented here so far for sure, but it could have some appeal and worth to some borrowers. I don’t see how a serious borrower gets around the fact that Helocs are adjustable and the start rate isn’t beating a fixed by much if any…and we should all be expecting mortgage rates to get worse. IMO

[NotCranky]

“HELOCs don’t have a positive yield.. they have a cost. You get charged the interest… it is not paid to you. The interest rate charged on an HELOC is higher than a standard mortgage.”

I understand that, but in effect the yield on the bill paying money by reducing the interest to be paid on the heloc vs. getting a pittance in checking acct. is a net benefit. That is why I called it the “High yield checking aspect” on the bill paying money and of course, the money in excess of the bill paying money that must be put into the system to get the house paid off. There is merit there, as compared to what, is the question. The actual program without the extra money isn’t going to do much that is for sure.

So, even in a best case scenario, the system in question is not much different than any other send more money program. It is just a tool. It is going to have to come in a better package than the two presented here so far for sure, but it could have some appeal and worth to some borrowers. I don’t see how a serious borrower gets around the fact that Helocs are adjustable and the start rate isn’t beating a fixed by much if any…and we should all be expecting mortgage rates to get worse. IMO

[NotCranky]

“HELOCs don’t have a positive yield.. they have a cost. You get charged the interest… it is not paid to you. The interest rate charged on an HELOC is higher than a standard mortgage.”

I understand that, but in effect the yield on the bill paying money by reducing the interest to be paid on the heloc vs. getting a pittance in checking acct. is a net benefit. That is why I called it the “High yield checking aspect” on the bill paying money and of course, the money in excess of the bill paying money that must be put into the system to get the house paid off. There is merit there, as compared to what, is the question. The actual program without the extra money isn’t going to do much that is for sure.

So, even in a best case scenario, the system in question is not much different than any other send more money program. It is just a tool. It is going to have to come in a better package than the two presented here so far for sure, but it could have some appeal and worth to some borrowers. I don’t see how a serious borrower gets around the fact that Helocs are adjustable and the start rate isn’t beating a fixed by much if any…and we should all be expecting mortgage rates to get worse. IMO

[NotCranky]

The theory is there. I think there is to much “baffle em with bullshit” in the “programs”.

“The Macquarie Asset Manager loan program has a lifetime interest cap of 21 percent.”

[NotCranky]

The theory is there. I think there is to much “baffle em with bullshit” in the “programs”.

“The Macquarie Asset Manager loan program has a lifetime interest cap of 21 percent.”

[NotCranky]

The theory is there. I think there is to much “baffle em with bullshit” in the “programs”.

“The Macquarie Asset Manager loan program has a lifetime interest cap of 21 percent.”

[NotCranky]

The theory is there. I think there is to much “baffle em with bullshit” in the “programs”.

“The Macquarie Asset Manager loan program has a lifetime interest cap of 21 percent.”

[NotCranky]

I agree one would be hard pressed to find a heloc that made this work out but it has potential based on the fact that the Heloc is working like a high yield checking account.

The new info Jumby presents explains it pretty well and emphasizes that in reality you need to dump bunches of income in excess of the monthly bills into it to make it really beneficial towards debt repayment.

The real problem for me is that the title of the thread is about “paying your mortgage off in 1/3 the time without doing anything different. How are you not doing anything “different” from your neighbor who is slogging away at 12 payments a year for 30 years? Of course it is different if you are going to dump bunches of money in excess of the monthly bills into the thing. What it is not very different from is when the borrower is sending extra money directly to the bank, on a fixed note, especially a lower interest one, that makes the high yield checking aspect irrelevant because of the respective balances?

I said I didn’t think this thing was worth any money even if it did have some use, because it is not very sophisticated and there are so many ways to do approximately the same thing. What are the Aussies paying for this alternative? It looks like it is a $30-$60 annual fee for the Heloc.It should just be a matter of the banks giving the option or the borrower signing up for Heloc and that does it. This has been educational Jumby. I think your last post has nearly made the “rocket science” software obsolete ,although now I see a shred of merit in the idea and there may be value I don’t yet see. Perhaps there could be more flexibility in this than in sending extra money to the bank on a fixed note. If one got over jealous in paying off the mortgage they could back track a little with the Heloc.I did get overzealous before on my course to being mortgage free,w/o a fancy program, and used zero percent credit cards in a pinch, at a time when one could talk the customer service people from the bank into not charging the transacation fees.

Anybody feel free to tell me if I am not seeing things properly on this topic. That is quite possible.

[NotCranky]

I agree one would be hard pressed to find a heloc that made this work out but it has potential based on the fact that the Heloc is working like a high yield checking account.

The new info Jumby presents explains it pretty well and emphasizes that in reality you need to dump bunches of income in excess of the monthly bills into it to make it really beneficial towards debt repayment.

The real problem for me is that the title of the thread is about “paying your mortgage off in 1/3 the time without doing anything different. How are you not doing anything “different” from your neighbor who is slogging away at 12 payments a year for 30 years? Of course it is different if you are going to dump bunches of money in excess of the monthly bills into the thing. What it is not very different from is when the borrower is sending extra money directly to the bank, on a fixed note, especially a lower interest one, that makes the high yield checking aspect irrelevant because of the respective balances?

I said I didn’t think this thing was worth any money even if it did have some use, because it is not very sophisticated and there are so many ways to do approximately the same thing. What are the Aussies paying for this alternative? It looks like it is a $30-$60 annual fee for the Heloc.It should just be a matter of the banks giving the option or the borrower signing up for Heloc and that does it. This has been educational Jumby. I think your last post has nearly made the “rocket science” software obsolete ,although now I see a shred of merit in the idea and there may be value I don’t yet see. Perhaps there could be more flexibility in this than in sending extra money to the bank on a fixed note. If one got over jealous in paying off the mortgage they could back track a little with the Heloc.I did get overzealous before on my course to being mortgage free,w/o a fancy program, and used zero percent credit cards in a pinch, at a time when one could talk the customer service people from the bank into not charging the transacation fees.

Anybody feel free to tell me if I am not seeing things properly on this topic. That is quite possible.

[NotCranky]

I agree one would be hard pressed to find a heloc that made this work out but it has potential based on the fact that the Heloc is working like a high yield checking account.

The new info Jumby presents explains it pretty well and emphasizes that in reality you need to dump bunches of income in excess of the monthly bills into it to make it really beneficial towards debt repayment.

The real problem for me is that the title of the thread is about “paying your mortgage off in 1/3 the time without doing anything different. How are you not doing anything “different” from your neighbor who is slogging away at 12 payments a year for 30 years? Of course it is different if you are going to dump bunches of money in excess of the monthly bills into the thing. What it is not very different from is when the borrower is sending extra money directly to the bank, on a fixed note, especially a lower interest one, that makes the high yield checking aspect irrelevant because of the respective balances?

I said I didn’t think this thing was worth any money even if it did have some use, because it is not very sophisticated and there are so many ways to do approximately the same thing. What are the Aussies paying for this alternative? It looks like it is a $30-$60 annual fee for the Heloc.It should just be a matter of the banks giving the option or the borrower signing up for Heloc and that does it. This has been educational Jumby. I think your last post has nearly made the “rocket science” software obsolete ,although now I see a shred of merit in the idea and there may be value I don’t yet see. Perhaps there could be more flexibility in this than in sending extra money to the bank on a fixed note. If one got over jealous in paying off the mortgage they could back track a little with the Heloc.I did get overzealous before on my course to being mortgage free,w/o a fancy program, and used zero percent credit cards in a pinch, at a time when one could talk the customer service people from the bank into not charging the transacation fees.

Anybody feel free to tell me if I am not seeing things properly on this topic. That is quite possible.

[NotCranky]

I agree one would be hard pressed to find a heloc that made this work out but it has potential based on the fact that the Heloc is working like a high yield checking account.

The new info Jumby presents explains it pretty well and emphasizes that in reality you need to dump bunches of income in excess of the monthly bills into it to make it really beneficial towards debt repayment.

The real problem for me is that the title of the thread is about “paying your mortgage off in 1/3 the time without doing anything different. How are you not doing anything “different” from your neighbor who is slogging away at 12 payments a year for 30 years? Of course it is different if you are going to dump bunches of money in excess of the monthly bills into the thing. What it is not very different from is when the borrower is sending extra money directly to the bank, on a fixed note, especially a lower interest one, that makes the high yield checking aspect irrelevant because of the respective balances?

I said I didn’t think this thing was worth any money even if it did have some use, because it is not very sophisticated and there are so many ways to do approximately the same thing. What are the Aussies paying for this alternative? It looks like it is a $30-$60 annual fee for the Heloc.It should just be a matter of the banks giving the option or the borrower signing up for Heloc and that does it. This has been educational Jumby. I think your last post has nearly made the “rocket science” software obsolete ,although now I see a shred of merit in the idea and there may be value I don’t yet see. Perhaps there could be more flexibility in this than in sending extra money to the bank on a fixed note. If one got over jealous in paying off the mortgage they could back track a little with the Heloc.I did get overzealous before on my course to being mortgage free,w/o a fancy program, and used zero percent credit cards in a pinch, at a time when one could talk the customer service people from the bank into not charging the transacation fees.

Anybody feel free to tell me if I am not seeing things properly on this topic. That is quite possible.

[NotCranky]

Nicely said PW. I enjoy reading someone like you or Allan, who can praise and criticize the U.S. so articulately and even handedly and also isn’t afraid to do it.

I was in Vancouver and other parts of southern B.C. for the Worlds Fair(Expo?). Very nice to visit. That was 20+ years ago.

[NotCranky]

Nicely said PW. I enjoy reading someone like you or Allan, who can praise and criticize the U.S. so articulately and even handedly and also isn’t afraid to do it.

I was in Vancouver and other parts of southern B.C. for the Worlds Fair(Expo?). Very nice to visit. That was 20+ years ago.

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