[KIBU]

Unfortunately, distraction arguments is the name of the game for these pro-gun people. They imagine of Hitler coming back, while that risk is probably only significant in their imaginary head. On the other hand, they turn blind eyes on the reality of gun related deaths. These arguments seems to work and they believe it.

I still don’t know how they can argue themselves to go against sensible background checks that would prevent mental, violent, criminals from getting guns as easy as it is now.

[KIBU]

The pro-guns in San Diego did mobilize their efforts.

I know there were at least 2 meetings among the tea party members organized to discuss how to protect the second amendment. They were on meetup san diego (Ramona). They were serious.

There was no meet-up gathering for gun control that I know of.

That tells you how unorganized the majority of the people who want some gun safety laws are. Until they fall the victim of guns, which is not that difficult when you think about it, they probably be way less fanatic and organized than the NRA and tea party crowd.

[KIBU]

Who said anything about the Tea Party?

I respect the Tea Party because they engaged in our political system. They are great Americans with ideas just as the Republicans and the Democrats. They have ideas that you can reason with.

The Anti-government, anti-American groups and rhetoric is different. These dudes don’t want to participate in the rule of law and the political system of this country. They want using guns and explosions to guide this country their way. Their rhetoric are full of hatred toward our government.

Sorry, but I trust the United State of America government than any of these guys who are deluding themselves with their revolutionary wannabe theory.

It is interesting that the information about McVeigh on his rational for pro-gun parallel the current NRA’s stand (at least what I see in the last few interviews of the NRA top leaders). I am not sure if NRA understand that they are using the rhetorics of such revolutionaries and patriot as Tim McVeigh.

[KIBU]

The line is pretty fine.

These dudes with anti-government rhetoric everywhere I hear (they are pretty vocal now) and the dude who exploded the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995, Timothy McVeigh sound kind of familiar to me. This is from Wikipedia on Timothy McVeigh:
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1993 Waco siege and gun shows

In 1993, he drove to Waco, Texas during the Waco Siege to show his support. At the scene, he distributed pro-gun rights literature and bumper stickers, such as “When guns are outlawed, I will become an outlaw.” He told a student reporter:

The government is afraid of the guns people have because they have to have control of the people at all times. Once you take away the guns, you can do anything to the people. You give them an inch and they take a mile. I believe we are slowly turning into a socialist government. The government is continually growing bigger and more powerful and the people need to prepare to defend themselves against government control.[24]

For the five months following the Waco Siege, McVeigh worked at gun shows and handed out free cards printed up with Lon Horiuchi’s name and address, “in the hope that somebody in the Patriot movement would assassinate the sharpshooter.” (Horiuchi is an FBI sniper and some of his official actions have drawn controversy, specifically his shooting and killing of Randy Weaver’s wife while she held an infant child.) He wrote hate mail to the sniper, suggesting that “what goes around, comes around,” and he later considered putting aside his plan to target the Murrah Building to target Horiuchi, or a member of his family instead.[25]

McVeigh spent more time on the gun show circuit,[when?] traveling to 40 states and visiting about 80 gun shows. McVeigh found that the further west he went, the more anti-government sentiment he encountered, at least until he got to what he called “The People’s Socialist Republic of California.”[26] McVeigh sold survival items and copies of The Turner Diaries. One author said:

In the gun show culture, McVeigh found a home. Though he remained skeptical of some of the most extreme ideas being bandied around, he liked talking to people there about the United Nations, the federal government and possible threats to American liberty.[27]
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[KIBU]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/01/us/alabama-child-hostage/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

“Neighbors have described Dykes as “anti-government” and abusive, with several describing run-ins, including one where they claimed he pulled a gun.

Tim Byrd, chief investigator with the Dale County Sheriff’s Office, told the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Hatewatch that Dykes was a “survivalist type” with “anti-America” views”.

My question is this: is this an anomaly or are we seeing more of these “anti-government” , “anti-America” dudes?

[KIBU]

In my humble opinion, it is important to write and make sure they receive it, regardless of how one thinks the reps will vote. The more clear message we send them the better. It is to give them the message that we are serious and the number of people who care about this issue is important for their next re-elections.

Once the reps voted on this issue in the next weeks, will have much more information and perhaps, someone then should make a list of the grades to assess these reps on how they vote on this issue.

The NRA only needed to teach a few politicians the hard way and then magically almost all of politicians fell in line because they were scared of the NRA. It’s time that they should take us more seriously.

[KIBU]

5 dead today at one scene. An assault riffle among the weapons. 15 years old arrested. Victims maybe family, pending investigation.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/20/justice/new-mexico-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

[KIBU]

It says that we as a society should not be over relying on the “responsibility” of the mass in handling deadly things such as guns. It needs strict regulations just the same way we deal with car driving. After which, though, of course there are still accidents like this that can occur. But we need to minimize the risks.

The following is the story of the mom forgeting the loaded magazine and the gun in the backpack that her son took to school and then gave to other student. No one was hurt and that was the lucky outcome. If you leave it to anybody, all of them always say they are “responsible”. But you see how people drive out there in the freeway sometimes right?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/18/us/new-york-backpack-guns/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

[KIBU]

———————————————-
Quote: “A very small number of people paid a very large amount of money to get these guys into office to carry out the agenda they have in mind and if they don’t comply, they’re out. And this brings us back to why our Constitution and Bill of Rights is so important”.
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Paul,

I very much agree with you that the way some politics are bought in this country by the lobby seems to undermine our democracy. People from both parties, democrats and republicans could be found guilty of this practice.

This topic that we are focusing on is about gun control. And on this topic, let me ask who is the biggest special interest lobby that has been successfully steering the many US politicians on gun control. The greatest lobbyist is the NRA and it is them who acted the way that can be seen to undermine our democracy, very close to what you stated: “paid a very large amount of money to get these guys into office to carry out the agenda they have in mind and if they don’t comply, they’re out”. I have read about how the NRA influenced the politicians with their money and bullying tactics.

In general, like you I believe that the Washington lobbies and special interests should be further out of our government’s arm. In specific, I believe that the overwhelming and powerful NRA special interest should step back from strangling our politicians and government .

In the topic of gun, it is the NRA, a special interest and minority group which has been steering the politicians and the rest of this nation on how to deal with gun accessibility in spite of all the consequences of gun misuse to society.

So, it appears to me, if one cares about the “Constitution and Bill of Rights” and our democracy such as you, it makes sense for one to fight against special interests such as the NRA in its profound intrusions into the workings of our government.

[KIBU]

Very common in gun debates are the distractions and the digressions to politics. The ones for gun control automatically become linked to political figures like Obama, Feinstein. I think we should open to the fact that just because one is for gun control, not necessary that one should be automatically assumed a fan of Obama or Feinstein or a political party.

I am for gun control because I believe that it will help prevent and solve the problem of the senseless gun murders of our children at schools and other places, and the thousands of deaths via easy gun accessibility every year. I do think that it is a solvable problem. It doesn’t have to be completely solved tomorrow but it will be solved eventually so that children will be safer in this country.

So to me this should be very much beyond the politics and I think it should be to you too. I believe that on this topic, politics blind people’s sight to what this country can do to improve its safety for its own children. To me, it’s simply to minimize the risks to our children as much as possible to gun deaths.

We wear our seat belts, an act that even though restrict our movements at the time but could save our life and others when an accident occurs. We drive with our unexpired driving license, have liability insurances, car registration, and the rules and laws of the road. The ones who do not follow the laws gradually got busted. The others learn from it. Still we get plenty of accidents and deaths and drunk driving, but that does not mean the laws and regulations do not work.

For those who believe in the theory of tyrannical government, I am sure you have your reasons and heart to believe so. I just want to put in my opinion: just double check, tripple check and quadruple check all the facts that you hear and the reasonings you hear. There are people who can make any theory very convincing and before we know it, acts like Timothy McVeigh won’t be a very distant extensions of these indoctrinations. Seems to me if you really want to protect our republic, it is the rule of law that would be your more effective weapon. If one think an AR-15 is the more effective weapon for this, one has drunk the unquestioned kool aid.

Finally, I think we should focus on ideas to help improve safety for our society away from gun deaths and less on the distractions and digressions that do not lead anywhere.

[KIBU]

Just to make sure: “Violent Crime is at 40 year low” because “Number of guns is much higher than 40 years ago” ?

There are many ways to death and one can choose to talk about ALL of them. But we are focusing on the way to death via mass killings on our children at schools by guns, that should be and must be prevented.

On other matter, suicide deaths are deaths that should be and could be preventable as well. Perhaps by decreasing accessibility to the most efficient deadly weapon, the gun, many lives could be spared, no matter whose hands killed.

I don’t know about you but for me, the need for wearing a life jacket to feel safe and be safe in America means that a piece of my life and freedom has been taken away. Pro-gun people should pay attention to these when they want to encourage people to have guns at home or walk with guns or saving gun at work (school) to be safe. We feel if we have to have guns, life jackets, armor car, go through detectors…..those actually limit our freedom and also our rights to have a normal life away from a war like zone in America. And all that cost must be paid for the liberty of the gun owners.

[KIBU]

Another kids shooting

http://news.yahoo.com/sheriff-calif-teen-planned-attack-classmates-015729786.html

[KIBU]

Great, I am glad there is some agreements that laws do have effects and not as useless as some try to portray, so as to discount the role of gun control (old and future) laws altogether.

We can certainly debate on which law (together with other programs) can be more effective to “result in a better, safer society”.

We need to step up and find solutions to not let these children’s deaths and the 10,000 other Americans dying annually by guns to die in vain. We can do much better than the current status quo.

By the way, regarding “protection against tyranny”, my opinion is that the better weapon against tyranny is the rule of law, not one’s R-15.

[KIBU]

We live in a society that is based on the rule of law.

Laws certainly do not eliminate absolutely a problem. In absolute terms, it never could or even intended to do so in an absolute way. It has the ability to guide society toward doing the things that serve the common goods. It is one very fundamental and helpful tool we have.

People keep misleading themselves with the il-logic that because laws can’t change things completely, hence there should be no law.

Some here are not only skeptical of the US government, they seem to be skeptical of the foundations of the rule of laws as well.

[KIBU]

Fights in bar brought to shooting and then street shooting. 2 killed. Police canceled second fireworks.

40,000 people, families and young children didn’t see the second fireworks because some guys have their liberty with the guns.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/01/us/california-new-years-eve-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

NRA will come out with new smart ass advice again to Americans: it’s better to arm 40,000 people than to disarm a few. The 40,000 people will be able to shoot the killer in an instance.

[Author]

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