[JC]

Thank you for all of the great resources.

What do you think of these two?

1.  Dion from WSJ – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztZylRK8xXE

2. Morningstar investing classroom https://www.morningstar.com/start-investing/classroom

[JC]

Gzz,

Thank you. I will see if I can do that.

I had a volunteer mediator through the court that was excellent for some time. It was my follow-up with my neighbors and their attorneys asking them to “Please respond to the mediator. Thank you.” that they used to file a TRO. Well, that and some completely fabricated activities. Obviously, there was no evidence of the items they fully made up. The other “evidence” was photos of my polite notes asking them to engage with the mediator.

This did not have to cost any money on my neighbors end if they had simply engaged with their contractor as soon as they were notified that their construction broke the sewer line. Instead, they have spent more on legal fees just to keep me from getting any relief than it would have cost to fix the line with a private plumber and are forcing me into hiring an attorney.

I think in civil cases you generally can’t get the other party to pay for your legal fees, but I wonder if there are any special circumstances when you can demonstrate that you tried ALL available routes to resolve amicably with no cooperation from the other side. Probably wishful thinking.

Thanks again for the helpful input.

[JC]

gzz, Thank you for the input. I would actually love to use a mediator and tried that for more than 6 months. My neighbor refuses to engage with a mediator. I can’t understand why. As you have noted, this is a lose lose situation.

I have pointed out all of the reasons why settling this via a mediator would be good in the best interest of all parties, and they still seem keen to force me to hire an attorney. I’m baffled.

[JC]

I have received a number of referrals through other channels, so if anyone needs a referral in the future, just PM me.

[JC]

Updated the topic name to be more descriptive of the current request. As always, thank you for any suggestions you may have.

[JC]

Well, I am ready to ask for referrals for a good real estate attorney. If anyone has one, I would be delighted to get the referral.

An actual RO was not allowed at the hearing, but I am glad that I did respond and did show for the hearing as I think one would have been granted if I had not. (For other folks, it might be ok to ignore, but my neighbors perjured themselves and fully fabricated actions that did not happen). TROs are granted easily and that is a good thing for people who are telling the truth and need protection. This is not a good thing for people that will fabricate info. I don’t believe most attorneys would support this behavior as its probably not really in your client’s best interest long term to allow them to engage in this kind of unethical behavior. That said, their attorney lied in court himself. I may be naive, but I was fairly shocked by that.

I’m not sure why the judge did not seem to care about the perjury or the evidence I presented of the first of 3 attorneys threatening me in writing and claiming that I would never have a chance in court as a judge would only ever side with a military member, but he did seem to realize that this was a property dispute and nothing else and that I had no way to resolve my situation. He got the neighbor’s attorney to agree to try to move towards a resolution.

Sadly, the personal attorney does not seem to be following through on this. He says settlement and then keeps claiming the info I have provided is not what he needs, but also wont specify what he does need to be provided. Meanwhile, I continue to back-up. The most recent one was this past Sunday.

All of this negatively impacts my neighbor too, so I feel like I am missing something. By not addressing this, neither of us can sell or refinance. And, even if we could sell, my realtor let me know that this could come back to haunt us after the sale if we don’t get this resolved. I can’t rent out part of my home and I would guess that this impacts the rental rate my neighbor can get. But, instead of trying to cooperate or resolve, they appear to be spending more money on attorneys than a fix from an independent plumber would have cost. And, if they had addressed when first notified by certified letter, it likely would not have cost them anything as they could have had the contractor make the fix. Again, I must be missing something. As this seems completely illogical.

As always, thank you for the input and I hope some of this helps others.

JC

[JC]

Hobie is right. (I promised I would start future convos this way).

Seriously, thank you for more good info.

I can’t avoid responding to the TRO. A copy of this is something my employer will find and my neighbors went for maximum pain. I know the majority opinion on this thread is that I have been way too nice, but they lied and said “this order is based on unlawful violence, a credible threat of violence, or stalking”. I guess they are banking on the difficulty of proving perjury?

And, to be 100 percent clear, I did not do any of those things. I HAVE asked many times for cooperation because I can’t fully use my home. It has been incredibly upsetting, but I am not a violent person and most of the time I work 2 jobs at a time, so unless I could stalk someone in my sleep, that would be impossible.

This is probably standard, but they tried to pull any statement out of context possible to make it look like I was saying one thing when I wasn’t. I’m just adding this in for anyone who reads this who has an issue like this. Keep good documentation! Thankfully, I did, but it will still be annoying to have to prove all of this.

Regarding the large number of attorneys on a small claims case, I don’t think it is an inability to pay. Based on what I saw with the second set of attorneys, my neighbor does not provide a full picture of actual events, so they take actions and then when I provide the attorneys with the info about what really happened, they back off. For instance, my first message from the second set of attorneys was similar, but I provided info on what my requests were content wise, why they were necessary and that I had offered mediation as a means to resolve our conflict but that my neighbor was not engaging. That promptly stopped those communications from that set of attorneys. (Hobie will probably chime in and advise that me being open and honest with the second set of attorneys was stupid. If he does, follow his advice. For me, I have just been trying to get this resolved with minimum pain for all financially and emotionally so I can move on with my life and that seemed the best way at the time)

I believe the TRO and my response will be able to be found by his employer too, so I am confused as to why he would do that to himself? He also seemed to get his wife to do the lion’s share of the lying, but he did plenty too. Super odd behavior.

Thanks again for all of the great input. Much appreciated.

[JC]

O2addict. Wow! Thank you. I did not know that. I will pull some more info on that this weekend. And, good point about the non-written easements — that is pretty much what the city and county told me when I approached them about this issue and started my research. It’s kind of well understood that most property owners would want to cooperate if they share a sewer.

I don’t know that I have a great handle. I have just done a lot of asking and researching. And, I really hope some of this benefits others too.

One other interesting note (possibly only to me). I found another neighbor on my street had a similar issue. Shared sewer line broken by construction only he was the person who did the accidental breaking. His way of handling was to 1) apologize to the other neighbor and 2) replace their ENTIRE line. I think that is more than I would actually expect but that behavior seems a bit more common in my area than my neighbor.

[JC]

O2addict, Thank you. I think I am just going to start every post with “Hobie was right” or “should have listened to Hobie”. 🙂

Seriously, I hope this thread helps others if just to learn from my mistakes.

An easement exists. There is not a lot of detail to it. I spent a lot of time looking at old records to check. I had proposed to the neighbor that we make it clearer (would potentially help both of us with resale). He refused. He also would “not allow” work without his ok. I am pretty sure he can’t do that BUT when I have done something as simple as requesting information from him, he has immediately had attorneys threatening me. So, I can only imagine what he would do if I had a plumber roll up to do some work.

Lis Pendens is a great idea, but I don’t believe it applies here. You have to have a suit involving either the title to the property or a claimed ownership interest in it. I have neither.

If I had filed a proper lawsuit at the time of the first extremely bad behavior, I would have had a chance of having a judgment by now which I would need for a lien. To be a little fair to me, my neighbor pushing out the suit and Covid definitely did not help my situation. Well, that and I never anticipated anyone lying this much when it hurts them financially to do so. I thought most people would be more logical about a major investment.

I do not believe this neighbor’s orders changed. I believe if he has decided not to sell that he will rent. This is second hand info, so no idea if this is true. And, I am really not tracking their actions very carefully as it is mostly none of my business. I only ran into the neighbor last week as I was out with my dogs when he was out in his yard. And, as he has pretty much refused to communicate in any productive way, I figured I would try that.

I think right now all I can do is 1) fight this ridiculous TRO 2) get a good attorney.

JC

[JC]

O2addict, Thank you. I think I am just going to start every post with “Hobie was right” or “should have listened to Hobie”. 🙂

Seriously, I hope this thread helps others if just to learn from my mistakes.

An easement exists. There is not a lot of detail to it. I spent a lot of time looking at old records to check. I had proposed to the neighbor that we make it clearer (would potentially help both of us with resale). He refused. He also would “not allow” work without his ok. I am pretty sure he can’t do that BUT when I have done something as simple as requesting information from him, he has immediately had attorneys threatening me. So, I can only imagine what he would do if I had a plumber roll up to do some work.

Lis Pendens is a great idea, but I don’t believe it applies here. You have to have a suit involving either the title to the property or a claimed ownership interest in it. I have neither.

If I had filed a proper lawsuit at the time of the first extremely bad behavior, I would have had a chance of having a judgment by now which I would need for a lien. To be a little fair to me, my neighbor pushing out the suit and Covid definitely did not help my situation. Well, that and I never anticipated anyone lying this much when it hurts them financially to do so. I thought most people would be more logical about a major investment.

I do not believe this neighbor’s orders changed. I believe if he has decided not to sell that he will rent. This is second hand info, so no idea if this is true. And, I am really not tracking their actions very carefully as it is mostly none of my business. I only ran into the neighbor last week as I was out with my dogs when he was out in his yard. And, as he has pretty much refused to communicate in any productive way, I figured I would try that.

I think right now all I can do is 1) fight this ridiculous TRO 2) get a good attorney.

JC

[JC]

Hobie, BTW, you mentioned in an earlier post that I could “bite the bullet” and pay for the repair myself. It’s not a bad idea, but he has not “allowed” me to make the repairs even when the line was fully blocked. The clean out is on his property and right in front of his house. There is an easement but not well defined, so he should not block me, BUT he has lied to me, the mediator, service providers, a judge, his second set of attorneys, etc., so I’m super nervous about pursuing this. (E.g. He would try to say I did something I did not do even with tons of proof to the contrary). I think your point would be “get a goddamn attorney and get this figured out” and I guess that is what I will have to do. 🙂
Jen

[JC]

Hobie,

Thank you. You are correct again. It was simply to intimidate me as were the other ridiculous letters from other attorneys. However, this was court issued and the reading I did last night tracks with what you are saying. I have to be very careful.

The neighborhood gossip mill has recently updated me that this guy is not moving now.

It looks like I need to file my own dispute of this ridiculous TRO and in a speedy way. I have to work today, so I guess this is my weekend project. I’ve kept a pretty detailed timeline, so it won’t be that hard. I’m just frustrated that this could have been solved quickly and easily in early 2019, but he always throws up some way where I can’t communicate with him and then uses that as his excuse for not taking action.

I just can’t imagine doing this to another neighbor. Even after the encroachment and refusing to take action after the first back up, I still went out and did all of the research for them, found the best quote that just focused on the damage they did to the line and helped them find ways to get it paid for. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

The line works to the extent that it can be used VERY minimally — short showers and such. No major water use.

Guessing I will finally be taking everyone’s advice and hiring an attorney.

For the amount we will both wind up paying attorneys we probably could have put in a brand new line and increased the value of both of our properties.

[JC]

For anyone following this thread, you probably already know this, but definitely follow Hobie’s advice and not what I have done.

My latest update will having you saying “I told you so”, but let me first share some new info I have on the original topic. How to alert buyers of existing issues — there are a few folks that will care without having the lien to cloud title. The buyers agent, the sellers agent, the buyer, the appraiser and the estimator. The challenge can be getting to them before the sale, but that is who will care. And, even though small claims minus a judgment will not cause any title issues, it can be an issue if that defendant tries to refinance or buy a new property. (Well, if they tell the truth about the suit or lie and get caught).

Ok, on to the cringeworthy update. My neighbor was at home last week, so I asked him over our shared fence if he could address the broken sewer. Same language as my notes — please and thank yous. The first night he responded with great frustration stating that his attorneys were handling the resolution of our issue and that I should have known that if I had been checking my email. I asked for more detail as I certainly had not received any communication like that and it seemed pretty surprising to me that this would be their role. He stormed off without giving me more info, so I wrote to his attorneys and described their client’s idea of their role and asked for them to clarify their roles. Not surprisingly, what my neighbor had shared was in conflict with their understanding. Two nights later, I noticed the neighbor was in his backyard again, so I asked if I could get some more info on his understanding of how his attorneys were going to resolve our issue for him. (I know this seems far fetched but he has communicated so little I thought perhaps he truly did completely misunderstand their role). He was uncooperative and started taking photos of me, so I did alert him that I would use video and then filmed our convo after that which was him telling me he did not want to talk to me over the the fence and me telling him I did not really want to either and to please tell me how and when would be convenient to meet to get this resolved. At this point, he mostly just started loudly whistling back at me.

The next day, I did write to his commanding officer as military neighbors have been suggesting that I do that for about a year.

I got a response from the commanding officer on Monday suggesting that he had been spoken with. I waited a few days to allow my neighbor to reach out to me. When he did not, I send him a message via the mediator to be sure he received it.

Tonight, I received what I would call a fraudulent or highly inaccurate TRO as parts of it seem to rise to the level of perjury. (Other parts of it are simply copies of my please and thank you notes which I would not dispute. I have sent a lot of please and thank you notes because I haven’t had a fully functional sewer line since early 2019). I should mention that the TRO was from a 3rd attorney presumably because his 1st and 2nd attorneys have probably caught on to his behavior.

I am fascinated that the cost of the latest communication is close to half the price of the fix of the sewer line and that he probably would not have had to pay for any of that fix if he had just promptly contacted his contractor and his insurance. And, that he would risk his career by lying like this. I get that it will be hard to prove his lying, but why take the risk?

[JC]

Hobie, Thank you. I am in this situation because I should have listened to you and others when I was advised to sue at the first sign of super shady behavior. I’ve just never sued someone before and it seemed like such an aggressive act.

Given where I am at now — I filed a small claims case in Dec which has been pushed out indefinitely b/c the neighbor pushed and then Covid hit. I did do the next best thing as soon as I could — mediator.

The neighbor never actually committed to anything with the mediator which I was routinely but politely pointing out to him. (The mediator was making a very good effort for me, so this was not his fault, this neighbor is just very shady).

I looked into Liens last night, but you have to have a judgment to file one. Even if I filed a non small claims lawsuit on Monday, there is no way it would get heard before the sale of this property.

So, I am mostly a cautionary tale..

I have alerted the mediator and we will talk tomorrow. I also let go of all pride and posted several HIGHLY visible signs on my property so there is no way the listing agent could avoid seeing them. And, many kind neighbors are keeping an eye out for me at this point as the behavior of my shady neighbor is highly unusual for our area.

I do not want to do this, but I can make any showings very difficult for them. I’m a fairly peaceful person, so I am hoping my embarrassing signs prompt a visit from the realtor and he or she puts some added pressure on them. I suppose I could also post out this on Nextdoor too, but that seems icky and not sure the right audience would see.

[JC]

Here is info on disclosures required in CA in case anyone needs this: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/residential-home-sellers-california-your-disclosure-obligations.html

[Author]

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