[greekfire]

[quote=jpinpb]I just think the Constitution back in 1789 was not considering the Federal Reserve intervening and/or taking control of monetary policy. I don’t think all that is factored into the Constitution. It’s a game changer, imo.[/quote]

I think you’re right JP. The Founders were very well aware of the dangers of giving banks the power to control the issue of a currency. Here’s the famous quote about banks by Thomas Jefferson:

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered…I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies… The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Private_Banks_%28Quotation%29

I think that’s exactly what we’re seeing today. First inflation, then deflation – aka the business cycle. With each cycle the banks and corporations that have grown up around them tighten their grip, like a boa constrictor. This isn’t a perfect analogy, but you get the point. Don’t get me wrong, I love capitalism, just not crony capitalism.

[greekfire]

[quote=jpinpb]I just think the Constitution back in 1789 was not considering the Federal Reserve intervening and/or taking control of monetary policy. I don’t think all that is factored into the Constitution. It’s a game changer, imo.[/quote]

I think you’re right JP. The Founders were very well aware of the dangers of giving banks the power to control the issue of a currency. Here’s the famous quote about banks by Thomas Jefferson:

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered…I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies… The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Private_Banks_%28Quotation%29

I think that’s exactly what we’re seeing today. First inflation, then deflation – aka the business cycle. With each cycle the banks and corporations that have grown up around them tighten their grip, like a boa constrictor. This isn’t a perfect analogy, but you get the point. Don’t get me wrong, I love capitalism, just not crony capitalism.

[greekfire]

[quote=jpinpb]I just think the Constitution back in 1789 was not considering the Federal Reserve intervening and/or taking control of monetary policy. I don’t think all that is factored into the Constitution. It’s a game changer, imo.[/quote]

I think you’re right JP. The Founders were very well aware of the dangers of giving banks the power to control the issue of a currency. Here’s the famous quote about banks by Thomas Jefferson:

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered…I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies… The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Private_Banks_%28Quotation%29

I think that’s exactly what we’re seeing today. First inflation, then deflation – aka the business cycle. With each cycle the banks and corporations that have grown up around them tighten their grip, like a boa constrictor. This isn’t a perfect analogy, but you get the point. Don’t get me wrong, I love capitalism, just not crony capitalism.

[greekfire]

@Eugene: Yes, there were some issues then with countless currencies cropping up. However, paper money has existed for a long time, well before the Constitution was ratified in 1788. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_American_currency

We also used the Spanish Dollar (aka pieces of 8) here in the US well into the 1800’s. It was used to transact with the German thaler, which was the basis of our dollar (pronouncing thaler sounds like dollar). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dollar

I digress…I understand the supposed benefits of having a central bank like the Fed. However, giving power to a small group of elite to control a currency is just asking for trouble.

The Fed is the 4th iteration of a central bank here in the US. Like the 3 others before it, I think the current central bank is due to be disbanded at some point. The people in this country used to have a healthy suspicion of banks. I think we’ve been a bit drunk from our prosperity since WWII. Now that times are tougher more people are starting to follow the money trail.

@Rich: Totally my fault on the black listing. I was having trouble trying to selectively quote portions of Eugene’s post. I’ll figure it out at some point.

[greekfire]

@Eugene: Yes, there were some issues then with countless currencies cropping up. However, paper money has existed for a long time, well before the Constitution was ratified in 1788. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_American_currency

We also used the Spanish Dollar (aka pieces of 8) here in the US well into the 1800’s. It was used to transact with the German thaler, which was the basis of our dollar (pronouncing thaler sounds like dollar). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dollar

I digress…I understand the supposed benefits of having a central bank like the Fed. However, giving power to a small group of elite to control a currency is just asking for trouble.

The Fed is the 4th iteration of a central bank here in the US. Like the 3 others before it, I think the current central bank is due to be disbanded at some point. The people in this country used to have a healthy suspicion of banks. I think we’ve been a bit drunk from our prosperity since WWII. Now that times are tougher more people are starting to follow the money trail.

@Rich: Totally my fault on the black listing. I was having trouble trying to selectively quote portions of Eugene’s post. I’ll figure it out at some point.

[greekfire]

@Eugene: Yes, there were some issues then with countless currencies cropping up. However, paper money has existed for a long time, well before the Constitution was ratified in 1788. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_American_currency

We also used the Spanish Dollar (aka pieces of 8) here in the US well into the 1800’s. It was used to transact with the German thaler, which was the basis of our dollar (pronouncing thaler sounds like dollar). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dollar

I digress…I understand the supposed benefits of having a central bank like the Fed. However, giving power to a small group of elite to control a currency is just asking for trouble.

The Fed is the 4th iteration of a central bank here in the US. Like the 3 others before it, I think the current central bank is due to be disbanded at some point. The people in this country used to have a healthy suspicion of banks. I think we’ve been a bit drunk from our prosperity since WWII. Now that times are tougher more people are starting to follow the money trail.

@Rich: Totally my fault on the black listing. I was having trouble trying to selectively quote portions of Eugene’s post. I’ll figure it out at some point.

[greekfire]

@Eugene: Yes, there were some issues then with countless currencies cropping up. However, paper money has existed for a long time, well before the Constitution was ratified in 1788. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_American_currency

We also used the Spanish Dollar (aka pieces of 8) here in the US well into the 1800’s. It was used to transact with the German thaler, which was the basis of our dollar (pronouncing thaler sounds like dollar). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dollar

I digress…I understand the supposed benefits of having a central bank like the Fed. However, giving power to a small group of elite to control a currency is just asking for trouble.

The Fed is the 4th iteration of a central bank here in the US. Like the 3 others before it, I think the current central bank is due to be disbanded at some point. The people in this country used to have a healthy suspicion of banks. I think we’ve been a bit drunk from our prosperity since WWII. Now that times are tougher more people are starting to follow the money trail.

@Rich: Totally my fault on the black listing. I was having trouble trying to selectively quote portions of Eugene’s post. I’ll figure it out at some point.

[greekfire]

@Eugene: Yes, there were some issues then with countless currencies cropping up. However, paper money has existed for a long time, well before the Constitution was ratified in 1788. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_American_currency

We also used the Spanish Dollar (aka pieces of 8) here in the US well into the 1800’s. It was used to transact with the German thaler, which was the basis of our dollar (pronouncing thaler sounds like dollar). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dollar

I digress…I understand the supposed benefits of having a central bank like the Fed. However, giving power to a small group of elite to control a currency is just asking for trouble.

The Fed is the 4th iteration of a central bank here in the US. Like the 3 others before it, I think the current central bank is due to be disbanded at some point. The people in this country used to have a healthy suspicion of banks. I think we’ve been a bit drunk from our prosperity since WWII. Now that times are tougher more people are starting to follow the money trail.

@Rich: Totally my fault on the black listing. I was having trouble trying to selectively quote portions of Eugene’s post. I’ll figure it out at some point.

[greekfire]

Ahhhh. I spent a good 30+ minutes this morning trying to craft an eloquent reply to Eugene’s post but got rejected from the Drupal Gatekeepers. Apparently I hit the Preview button one too many times and tripped off the spam blockers. I think my problem was I didn’t enter the CAPTCHA phrase. Lol-go figure. Anyways, here is my response FWIW:

Article 1, Section 8 says that the Congress shall have power (not supreme power) to; (5) COIN (not issue) money, regulate the value thereof, etc…

Coining money involves the use of metal. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/coin) Article 1, Section 10 says that no State shall…make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts. However, a Federal Reserve Note says that this note is legal tender for all debts public and private.

Amendment X says that powers not given to the United States (Congress, federal government, Federal Reserve, etc.) by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that Congress (or any of its agents such as the Fed) has the power to “issue” or “print” money.

[greekfire]

Ahhhh. I spent a good 30+ minutes this morning trying to craft an eloquent reply to Eugene’s post but got rejected from the Drupal Gatekeepers. Apparently I hit the Preview button one too many times and tripped off the spam blockers. I think my problem was I didn’t enter the CAPTCHA phrase. Lol-go figure. Anyways, here is my response FWIW:

Article 1, Section 8 says that the Congress shall have power (not supreme power) to; (5) COIN (not issue) money, regulate the value thereof, etc…

Coining money involves the use of metal. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/coin) Article 1, Section 10 says that no State shall…make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts. However, a Federal Reserve Note says that this note is legal tender for all debts public and private.

Amendment X says that powers not given to the United States (Congress, federal government, Federal Reserve, etc.) by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that Congress (or any of its agents such as the Fed) has the power to “issue” or “print” money.

[greekfire]

Ahhhh. I spent a good 30+ minutes this morning trying to craft an eloquent reply to Eugene’s post but got rejected from the Drupal Gatekeepers. Apparently I hit the Preview button one too many times and tripped off the spam blockers. I think my problem was I didn’t enter the CAPTCHA phrase. Lol-go figure. Anyways, here is my response FWIW:

Article 1, Section 8 says that the Congress shall have power (not supreme power) to; (5) COIN (not issue) money, regulate the value thereof, etc…

Coining money involves the use of metal. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/coin) Article 1, Section 10 says that no State shall…make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts. However, a Federal Reserve Note says that this note is legal tender for all debts public and private.

Amendment X says that powers not given to the United States (Congress, federal government, Federal Reserve, etc.) by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that Congress (or any of its agents such as the Fed) has the power to “issue” or “print” money.

[greekfire]

Ahhhh. I spent a good 30+ minutes this morning trying to craft an eloquent reply to Eugene’s post but got rejected from the Drupal Gatekeepers. Apparently I hit the Preview button one too many times and tripped off the spam blockers. I think my problem was I didn’t enter the CAPTCHA phrase. Lol-go figure. Anyways, here is my response FWIW:

Article 1, Section 8 says that the Congress shall have power (not supreme power) to; (5) COIN (not issue) money, regulate the value thereof, etc…

Coining money involves the use of metal. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/coin) Article 1, Section 10 says that no State shall…make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts. However, a Federal Reserve Note says that this note is legal tender for all debts public and private.

Amendment X says that powers not given to the United States (Congress, federal government, Federal Reserve, etc.) by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that Congress (or any of its agents such as the Fed) has the power to “issue” or “print” money.

[greekfire]

Ahhhh. I spent a good 30+ minutes this morning trying to craft an eloquent reply to Eugene’s post but got rejected from the Drupal Gatekeepers. Apparently I hit the Preview button one too many times and tripped off the spam blockers. I think my problem was I didn’t enter the CAPTCHA phrase. Lol-go figure. Anyways, here is my response FWIW:

Article 1, Section 8 says that the Congress shall have power (not supreme power) to; (5) COIN (not issue) money, regulate the value thereof, etc…

Coining money involves the use of metal. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/coin) Article 1, Section 10 says that no State shall…make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts. However, a Federal Reserve Note says that this note is legal tender for all debts public and private.

Amendment X says that powers not given to the United States (Congress, federal government, Federal Reserve, etc.) by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that Congress (or any of its agents such as the Fed) has the power to “issue” or “print” money.

[greekfire]

Why don’t we just legalize the Constitution? The Constitution states that only gold and silver shall be legal tender. We’d be wise to listen to the advice of those that came before us when it comes to fiat currency, bimetallism, central economic planning, etc. Gold IS real money- has been for some 5000+ years. Chart the price of many items vs. gold and the price of those items relative to gold will remain flat. Not the same for paper money.

Paper money works until it gets inflated (over produced)…and it ALWAYS eventually gets inflated by those in charge of its production. Those who produce the money do this to more easily square up their debts. It’s much easier to debase with paper and ledger entries on a computer.

Inflation is a hidden tax that nobody wants to talk about. Those that get the money first (Wall St., big corporations, etc.) benefit while the rest of us have to produce/earn more to keep up. If nothing else, we should allow for competing currencies. If the dollar is so strong then it should be fine.

[greekfire]

Why don’t we just legalize the Constitution? The Constitution states that only gold and silver shall be legal tender. We’d be wise to listen to the advice of those that came before us when it comes to fiat currency, bimetallism, central economic planning, etc. Gold IS real money- has been for some 5000+ years. Chart the price of many items vs. gold and the price of those items relative to gold will remain flat. Not the same for paper money.

Paper money works until it gets inflated (over produced)…and it ALWAYS eventually gets inflated by those in charge of its production. Those who produce the money do this to more easily square up their debts. It’s much easier to debase with paper and ledger entries on a computer.

Inflation is a hidden tax that nobody wants to talk about. Those that get the money first (Wall St., big corporations, etc.) benefit while the rest of us have to produce/earn more to keep up. If nothing else, we should allow for competing currencies. If the dollar is so strong then it should be fine.

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