[Dougie944]

Brian, this is your problem. You base all your arguments off this:

“As Geithner said”

Geithner stating things does not make them facts.

What about this option?
How about a government controlled bankruptcy where the bondholders lose everything since that is what you deserve when your bonds are attached to a bankrupt company?

The bank shareholders would lose everything because that is what happens in a bankruptcy.

The current banks would probably emerge from the controlled bankruptcy with new management and boards as we should have no confidence In those people. If new banks needed to form to take their place, there are mechanisms for raising capital through IPOs.

The books would now be cleaner, the right people would have lost their money, and we would have different management. If the gov’t had to kick in extra money to help smooth it out, then so be it.

The same people that are saying this couldn’t have worked, also said the same thing about the car companies going through bankruptcy. They were wrong.

Paulson and company did it their way because it saved the bondholders/shareholders (extremely wealthy people) from losing their money. These people were making the decisions for their benefit at the expense of the other 99.9% of the country. Paulson was one of those rich people. So were his friends. He saved himself and his friends.

Now Geithner has the audacity to spin it like he saved the world and the worst part is that some people are believing him.

Brian, you never addressed the fact that Geithner oversaw the lending that started the meltdown.

[Dougie944]

Brian, this is your problem. You base all your arguments off this:

“As Geithner said”

Geithner stating things does not make them facts.

What about this option?
How about a government controlled bankruptcy where the bondholders lose everything since that is what you deserve when your bonds are attached to a bankrupt company?

The bank shareholders would lose everything because that is what happens in a bankruptcy.

The current banks would probably emerge from the controlled bankruptcy with new management and boards as we should have no confidence In those people. If new banks needed to form to take their place, there are mechanisms for raising capital through IPOs.

The books would now be cleaner, the right people would have lost their money, and we would have different management. If the gov’t had to kick in extra money to help smooth it out, then so be it.

The same people that are saying this couldn’t have worked, also said the same thing about the car companies going through bankruptcy. They were wrong.

Paulson and company did it their way because it saved the bondholders/shareholders (extremely wealthy people) from losing their money. These people were making the decisions for their benefit at the expense of the other 99.9% of the country. Paulson was one of those rich people. So were his friends. He saved himself and his friends.

Now Geithner has the audacity to spin it like he saved the world and the worst part is that some people are believing him.

Brian, you never addressed the fact that Geithner oversaw the lending that started the meltdown.

[Dougie944]

Brian, this is your problem. You base all your arguments off this:

“As Geithner said”

Geithner stating things does not make them facts.

What about this option?
How about a government controlled bankruptcy where the bondholders lose everything since that is what you deserve when your bonds are attached to a bankrupt company?

The bank shareholders would lose everything because that is what happens in a bankruptcy.

The current banks would probably emerge from the controlled bankruptcy with new management and boards as we should have no confidence In those people. If new banks needed to form to take their place, there are mechanisms for raising capital through IPOs.

The books would now be cleaner, the right people would have lost their money, and we would have different management. If the gov’t had to kick in extra money to help smooth it out, then so be it.

The same people that are saying this couldn’t have worked, also said the same thing about the car companies going through bankruptcy. They were wrong.

Paulson and company did it their way because it saved the bondholders/shareholders (extremely wealthy people) from losing their money. These people were making the decisions for their benefit at the expense of the other 99.9% of the country. Paulson was one of those rich people. So were his friends. He saved himself and his friends.

Now Geithner has the audacity to spin it like he saved the world and the worst part is that some people are believing him.

Brian, you never addressed the fact that Geithner oversaw the lending that started the meltdown.

[Dougie944]

Brian, this is your problem. You base all your arguments off this:

“As Geithner said”

Geithner stating things does not make them facts.

What about this option?
How about a government controlled bankruptcy where the bondholders lose everything since that is what you deserve when your bonds are attached to a bankrupt company?

The bank shareholders would lose everything because that is what happens in a bankruptcy.

The current banks would probably emerge from the controlled bankruptcy with new management and boards as we should have no confidence In those people. If new banks needed to form to take their place, there are mechanisms for raising capital through IPOs.

The books would now be cleaner, the right people would have lost their money, and we would have different management. If the gov’t had to kick in extra money to help smooth it out, then so be it.

The same people that are saying this couldn’t have worked, also said the same thing about the car companies going through bankruptcy. They were wrong.

Paulson and company did it their way because it saved the bondholders/shareholders (extremely wealthy people) from losing their money. These people were making the decisions for their benefit at the expense of the other 99.9% of the country. Paulson was one of those rich people. So were his friends. He saved himself and his friends.

Now Geithner has the audacity to spin it like he saved the world and the worst part is that some people are believing him.

Brian, you never addressed the fact that Geithner oversaw the lending that started the meltdown.

[Dougie944]

Mish has spent a lot of time on the issue of state pensions and budgets in general, but to be very fair, it is a HUGE issue and he was on the forefront of addressing it. These states are bankrupt and are just beginning to realize what a predicament they are in due to their pension obligations. This will have major implications for the US in the future as the states try to handle the problem.

He has spent countless hours slamming the bankers, but they have already gotten their bailouts. He rallied people night and day to call the representatives to block the bailout. The bondholders won, the taxpayers lost.

The next issue is the states. I think he has it right. Who wins this time…..the bondholders or the taxpayers? I certainly hope we have turned the corner on this issue and we (the taxpayer) win the next round.

People lending money with the fear of losing money is what makes people act responsibly…..it is a very important ingredient in our economic system.

[Dougie944]

Mish has spent a lot of time on the issue of state pensions and budgets in general, but to be very fair, it is a HUGE issue and he was on the forefront of addressing it. These states are bankrupt and are just beginning to realize what a predicament they are in due to their pension obligations. This will have major implications for the US in the future as the states try to handle the problem.

He has spent countless hours slamming the bankers, but they have already gotten their bailouts. He rallied people night and day to call the representatives to block the bailout. The bondholders won, the taxpayers lost.

The next issue is the states. I think he has it right. Who wins this time…..the bondholders or the taxpayers? I certainly hope we have turned the corner on this issue and we (the taxpayer) win the next round.

People lending money with the fear of losing money is what makes people act responsibly…..it is a very important ingredient in our economic system.

[Dougie944]

Mish has spent a lot of time on the issue of state pensions and budgets in general, but to be very fair, it is a HUGE issue and he was on the forefront of addressing it. These states are bankrupt and are just beginning to realize what a predicament they are in due to their pension obligations. This will have major implications for the US in the future as the states try to handle the problem.

He has spent countless hours slamming the bankers, but they have already gotten their bailouts. He rallied people night and day to call the representatives to block the bailout. The bondholders won, the taxpayers lost.

The next issue is the states. I think he has it right. Who wins this time…..the bondholders or the taxpayers? I certainly hope we have turned the corner on this issue and we (the taxpayer) win the next round.

People lending money with the fear of losing money is what makes people act responsibly…..it is a very important ingredient in our economic system.

[Dougie944]

Mish has spent a lot of time on the issue of state pensions and budgets in general, but to be very fair, it is a HUGE issue and he was on the forefront of addressing it. These states are bankrupt and are just beginning to realize what a predicament they are in due to their pension obligations. This will have major implications for the US in the future as the states try to handle the problem.

He has spent countless hours slamming the bankers, but they have already gotten their bailouts. He rallied people night and day to call the representatives to block the bailout. The bondholders won, the taxpayers lost.

The next issue is the states. I think he has it right. Who wins this time…..the bondholders or the taxpayers? I certainly hope we have turned the corner on this issue and we (the taxpayer) win the next round.

People lending money with the fear of losing money is what makes people act responsibly…..it is a very important ingredient in our economic system.

[Dougie944]

Mish has spent a lot of time on the issue of state pensions and budgets in general, but to be very fair, it is a HUGE issue and he was on the forefront of addressing it. These states are bankrupt and are just beginning to realize what a predicament they are in due to their pension obligations. This will have major implications for the US in the future as the states try to handle the problem.

He has spent countless hours slamming the bankers, but they have already gotten their bailouts. He rallied people night and day to call the representatives to block the bailout. The bondholders won, the taxpayers lost.

The next issue is the states. I think he has it right. Who wins this time…..the bondholders or the taxpayers? I certainly hope we have turned the corner on this issue and we (the taxpayer) win the next round.

People lending money with the fear of losing money is what makes people act responsibly…..it is a very important ingredient in our economic system.

[Dougie944]

No.

Brian, I think you have forgotten how much stimulus has been and is still being thrown at this problem. 1.5 trillion over budget every year is without a doubt stimulus. Fed stealing from every saver in this country in order to produce a wide spread is stimulus. Now they just passed the 2% holiday on social security tax…..yet another huge stimulus. This is of course, not even mentioning the stimulus packages and bailouts.

The multiple housing programs and credits have helped drag on the housing problem for years more than it should have taken to get to a sustainable level and i don’t believe we are close yet. It appears we are in for a long slow decline in prices.

Allowing banks to throw their bad assets into Fannie and Freddie at inflated prices in order to let the taxpayer take the hit and keep bank bonuses flowing.

Geithner I am sure had a hand in changing the accounting rules to hide losses in the banks. Not a desirable choice in my book….one that is dragging this problem out longer instead of facing facts and moving on.

If sloshing taxpayer money is the new definition of smart, then I guess you are right and I am wrong.

Also, don’t forget how culpable Geithner was in the entire meltdown. He was in charge of the banks on Wallstreet during the lax lending….the epicenter of the problem.

You would really have to believe everything is fixed now and can sustain without government life support (I don’t), forgive Geithner for helping cause the meltdown (I don’t), and overlook his cheating on his taxes (I don’t) in order to have confidence in this man.

[Dougie944]

No.

Brian, I think you have forgotten how much stimulus has been and is still being thrown at this problem. 1.5 trillion over budget every year is without a doubt stimulus. Fed stealing from every saver in this country in order to produce a wide spread is stimulus. Now they just passed the 2% holiday on social security tax…..yet another huge stimulus. This is of course, not even mentioning the stimulus packages and bailouts.

The multiple housing programs and credits have helped drag on the housing problem for years more than it should have taken to get to a sustainable level and i don’t believe we are close yet. It appears we are in for a long slow decline in prices.

Allowing banks to throw their bad assets into Fannie and Freddie at inflated prices in order to let the taxpayer take the hit and keep bank bonuses flowing.

Geithner I am sure had a hand in changing the accounting rules to hide losses in the banks. Not a desirable choice in my book….one that is dragging this problem out longer instead of facing facts and moving on.

If sloshing taxpayer money is the new definition of smart, then I guess you are right and I am wrong.

Also, don’t forget how culpable Geithner was in the entire meltdown. He was in charge of the banks on Wallstreet during the lax lending….the epicenter of the problem.

You would really have to believe everything is fixed now and can sustain without government life support (I don’t), forgive Geithner for helping cause the meltdown (I don’t), and overlook his cheating on his taxes (I don’t) in order to have confidence in this man.

[Dougie944]

No.

Brian, I think you have forgotten how much stimulus has been and is still being thrown at this problem. 1.5 trillion over budget every year is without a doubt stimulus. Fed stealing from every saver in this country in order to produce a wide spread is stimulus. Now they just passed the 2% holiday on social security tax…..yet another huge stimulus. This is of course, not even mentioning the stimulus packages and bailouts.

The multiple housing programs and credits have helped drag on the housing problem for years more than it should have taken to get to a sustainable level and i don’t believe we are close yet. It appears we are in for a long slow decline in prices.

Allowing banks to throw their bad assets into Fannie and Freddie at inflated prices in order to let the taxpayer take the hit and keep bank bonuses flowing.

Geithner I am sure had a hand in changing the accounting rules to hide losses in the banks. Not a desirable choice in my book….one that is dragging this problem out longer instead of facing facts and moving on.

If sloshing taxpayer money is the new definition of smart, then I guess you are right and I am wrong.

Also, don’t forget how culpable Geithner was in the entire meltdown. He was in charge of the banks on Wallstreet during the lax lending….the epicenter of the problem.

You would really have to believe everything is fixed now and can sustain without government life support (I don’t), forgive Geithner for helping cause the meltdown (I don’t), and overlook his cheating on his taxes (I don’t) in order to have confidence in this man.

[Dougie944]

No.

Brian, I think you have forgotten how much stimulus has been and is still being thrown at this problem. 1.5 trillion over budget every year is without a doubt stimulus. Fed stealing from every saver in this country in order to produce a wide spread is stimulus. Now they just passed the 2% holiday on social security tax…..yet another huge stimulus. This is of course, not even mentioning the stimulus packages and bailouts.

The multiple housing programs and credits have helped drag on the housing problem for years more than it should have taken to get to a sustainable level and i don’t believe we are close yet. It appears we are in for a long slow decline in prices.

Allowing banks to throw their bad assets into Fannie and Freddie at inflated prices in order to let the taxpayer take the hit and keep bank bonuses flowing.

Geithner I am sure had a hand in changing the accounting rules to hide losses in the banks. Not a desirable choice in my book….one that is dragging this problem out longer instead of facing facts and moving on.

If sloshing taxpayer money is the new definition of smart, then I guess you are right and I am wrong.

Also, don’t forget how culpable Geithner was in the entire meltdown. He was in charge of the banks on Wallstreet during the lax lending….the epicenter of the problem.

You would really have to believe everything is fixed now and can sustain without government life support (I don’t), forgive Geithner for helping cause the meltdown (I don’t), and overlook his cheating on his taxes (I don’t) in order to have confidence in this man.

[Dougie944]

No.

Brian, I think you have forgotten how much stimulus has been and is still being thrown at this problem. 1.5 trillion over budget every year is without a doubt stimulus. Fed stealing from every saver in this country in order to produce a wide spread is stimulus. Now they just passed the 2% holiday on social security tax…..yet another huge stimulus. This is of course, not even mentioning the stimulus packages and bailouts.

The multiple housing programs and credits have helped drag on the housing problem for years more than it should have taken to get to a sustainable level and i don’t believe we are close yet. It appears we are in for a long slow decline in prices.

Allowing banks to throw their bad assets into Fannie and Freddie at inflated prices in order to let the taxpayer take the hit and keep bank bonuses flowing.

Geithner I am sure had a hand in changing the accounting rules to hide losses in the banks. Not a desirable choice in my book….one that is dragging this problem out longer instead of facing facts and moving on.

If sloshing taxpayer money is the new definition of smart, then I guess you are right and I am wrong.

Also, don’t forget how culpable Geithner was in the entire meltdown. He was in charge of the banks on Wallstreet during the lax lending….the epicenter of the problem.

You would really have to believe everything is fixed now and can sustain without government life support (I don’t), forgive Geithner for helping cause the meltdown (I don’t), and overlook his cheating on his taxes (I don’t) in order to have confidence in this man.

[Dougie944]

I would say down, but getting a significant discount on the right unit seems like a risk worth taking. I noticed those Grande prices also and they are enticing.

[Author]

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