Younger workers everywhere

[FlyerInHi]

You don’t believe that the marketplace is efficient and self-correcting?
If young workers cost more, would employers not hire more experienced workers?

Speaking Spanish or a foreign language is a huge competitive advantage. It may trump experience.!

[millennial]

[quote=bearishgurl]

People like skerzz are “professionals” so they don’t have to compete for jobs with the “problem children” and so don’t have a clue about being rejected in favor of them. I do not have a college degree but possess an ABA-approved paralegal certificate from USD in Business litigation. Our classes were “500-level” classes and I have 33 years experience in the field. The goth chick with the iphone appendage that I described here (or the applicant with the white shirt with black bra peeking out from it) IS my competition today for jobs …. especially if she/he speaks fluent Spanish! (I just borrowed some Rosetta Stone SW and will endeavor to brush up as I have taken ten years worth of Spanish classes, lol.) The bottom line is that employers want young employees. They don’t care what they have to go through with them day-to-day but they want young and I accepted that fact ten years ago.

I’m actually not bitter. I am better off as an “independent contractor.” I’m just really happy that my kids received and are pursuing viable college degrees in fields that are in demand :=)[/quote]

Skerzz probably be better to let BG go. She’s an old boomer who doesn’t want to understand how Millenials think and just likes to talk about how she did things in the good old days. I run into old people like her all the time and would normally not spend the time of day talking to people like her. There are many times I have tried to explain how Millenials are all about the bottom line, and age nor color, or religion has anything to do with it. I try and tell her that Millenials are all about results, ROI’s and bottom lines but she doesn’t get it. I’m not sure what it is…probably just plain ignorance. Either way, she seems to want to spin things so she can throw another story from her life and how her generation is so great.

BG, not sure why you didn’t get the job, nor what you applied for, but I’m sure there was a very good reason other than age. But if you feel that is the reason to help you sleep better than go for it! Personally, our generation doesn’t care about how you look or how you dress or any of that like your generation may have. Maybe in the position you were applying for it really didn’t matter. Maybe she dressed that way but she just graduated from Harvard Law at the top of her class. Maybe you were asking for too much…so much so that it was not even a break-even proposition. There are so many variables that are at play here that your points are not worth discussing.

[bearishgurl]

yamashi, in my biz, having fluent Spanish-speaking skills is a HUGE asset. I feel that my lack of Spanish may have played a part as well. I stopped looking a few years ago but this year, I have endeavored to get fluent. I really have no excuse. I can read and even transcribe Spanish just fine but my language skills off the cuff are lacking. That’s one of the drawbacks to living so close to the border.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FlyerInHi]. . . Speaking Spanish or a foreign language is a huge competitive advantage. It may trump experience.![/quote]Yes, it absolutely is my biz in this region, FIH.

[millennial]

[quote=bearishgurl]yamashi, in my biz, having fluent Spanish-speaking skills is a HUGE asset. I feel that my lack of Spanish may have played a part as well. I stopped looking a few years ago but this year, I have endeavored to get fluent. I really have no excuse. I can read and even transcribe Spanish just fine but my language skills off the cuff are lacking. That’s one of the drawbacks to living so close to the border.[/quote]

Then why do you keep complaining about age discrimination? Also not sure what the job was for, but if Spanish was a requirement then maybe you shouldn’t have applied; if wasn’t required, then the hiring manager must have thought that you were not worth the money they would be spending. I know a lot of people that don’t speak Spanish that do very very well living in San Diego. Also when it comes to hiring, companies spend money on the most qualified employees that will bring in the most money. If they are a cost center, they are looking for the most qualified that costs the least. Employees are similar to investments, and companies make decision on an ROI/NPV analysis. You always pick the one that will generate the highest ROI, or if you use NPV anything that generates > $0. Maybe you don’t get it as a boomer and believe in facetime and that the most senior positions belong to the oldest people in the building.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=yamashi] . . . BG, not sure why you didn’t get the job, nor what you applied for, but I’m sure there was a very good reason other than age. But if you feel that is the reason to help you sleep better than go for it! Personally, our generation doesn’t care about how you look or how you dress or any of that like your generation may have. Maybe in the position you were applying for it really didn’t matter. Maybe she dressed that way but she just graduated from Harvard Law at the top of her class. Maybe you were asking for too much…so much so that it was not even a break-even proposition. There are so many variables that are at play here that your points are not worth discussing.[/quote]I haven’t interviewed in a few years, yamashi, but it wasn’t just one job I interviewed for … it was several. I sat in the reception area with one or more of my “competition” so I had an idea of who that was.

You have a point about the law school graduate. Law firms will take a “green” law school graduate to do paralegal work over a paralegal with a lot of experience. Law school graduates (whether they have their bar card, or not) WILL work as paralegal because there are not enough attorney positions to go around and haven’t been for at least 15 years. The country is glutted with law school graduates. Part of the reason is that many attorneys stay with their firms long past the age of 65, taking up an “attorney” spot. I know I was discriminated against when (several years ago, before the ACA) I was asked in three different interviews, “How has your health been? and “Have you been healthy, lately?” They wanted to know how much it was going to cost them to provide me with health insurance (small firms) before deciding whether to make a job offer to me … or not. One of the interviewers even took out a clipboard in my interview and started adding up salary and benefits in front of me to see what the total would be! It was uncalled for because I am fit, dress well, present well and wear a size 6-8. I can assure you that they don’t ask those kinds of questions to a 32 year-old in a job interview. And why should I compensate by telling them that I don’t want or need a health policy when they are providing it to their younger workforce?

Of course, you millenials really have no idea about how overt discrimination feels because you have never experienced it … yet. That day will come and it might be sooner than you think.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=yamashi] . . . Then why do you keep complaining about age discrimination? Also not sure what the job was for, but if Spanish was a requirement then maybe you shouldn’t have applied; if wasn’t required, then the hiring manager must have thought that you were not worth the money they would be spending. I know a lot of people that don’t speak Spanish that do very very well living in San Diego. Also when it comes to hiring, companies spend money on the most qualified employees that will bring in the most money. If they are a cost center, they are looking for the most qualified that costs the least. Employees are similar to investments, and companies make decision on an ROI/NPV analysis. You always pick the one that will generate the highest ROI, or if you use NPV anything that generates > $0. Maybe you don’t get it as a boomer and believe in facetime and that the most senior positions belong to the oldest people in the building.[/quote]Oh, wow, you really DON’T get it. I have never applied for positions where Spanish was a “requirement.” But in my biz, if a SD job description doesn’t state it is a requirement, it is always “preferred.” And you’re damned straight that in my biz the most “senior positions” ARE occupied by the “oldest people in the building.” Usually people who are well past retirement age. And due to my experience level, the jobs I apply for typically answer to the “oldest people in the building.” That’s just how it is.

[millennial]

[quote=bearishgurl]
You have a point about the law school graduate. Law firms will take a “green” law school graduate to do paralegal work over a paralegal with a lot of experience. Law school graduates (whether they have their bar card, or not) WILL work as paralegal because there are not enough attorney positions to go around and haven’t been for at least 15 years. The country is glutted with law school graduates. Part of the reason is that many attorneys stay with their firms long past the age of 65, taking up an “attorney” spot. I know I was discriminated against when (several years ago, before the ACA) I was asked in three different interviews, “How has your health been? and “Have you been healthy, lately?” They wanted to know how much it was going to cost them to provide me with health insurance (small firms) before deciding whether to make a job offer to me … or not. One of the interviewers even took out a clipboard in my interview and started adding up salary and benefits in front of me to see what the total would be! It was uncalled for because I am fit, dress well, present well and wear a size 6-8. I can assure you that they don’t ask those kinds of questions to a 32 year-old in a job interview. And why should I compensate by telling them that I don’t want or need a health policy when they are providing it to their younger workforce?

Of course, you millenials really have no idea about how overt discrimination feels because you have never experienced it … yet. That day will come and it might be sooner than you think.[/quote]

Ok so it sounds like you were a paralegal. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought most paralegals were interim positions for people that just finished their undergraduate and were looking for a mentorship program waiting to either go to Law School or pass the Bar; afterwards they can start practicing and move up to the Attorney ranks. Is this not true? If that’s the case, it would be better for an Attorney to hire someone who they believed would move up to within the firm. Someone that they could vest time into so they can move up the chain. Not sure if it is similar to Accountants, but when my wife was working at a Big 4 firm they started as Juniors, and Seniors, and moved up to a Manager once they passed their CPA exam. I’m not sure how the company would look at a Senior who would never move up to Manager or Senior Manager, but I think that if they compared a person who had the ability to move up within the organization it would be a significant advantage.

[spdrun]

No, not all paralegals turn into attorneys or need to. Some move up to managing other paralegals, etc.

Same deal with not all nurses going to med school, or not all electricians going to electrical engineering school.

[FlyerInHi]

Millennials love old Bernie Sanders.

[millennial]

[quote=bearishgurl]Oh, wow, you really DON’T get it. I have never applied for positions where Spanish was a “requirement.” But in my biz, if a SD job description doesn’t state it is a requirement, it is always “preferred.” And you’re damned straight that in my biz the most “senior positions” ARE occupied by the “oldest people in the building.” Usually people who are well past retirement age. And due to my experience level, the jobs I apply for typically answer to the “oldest people in the building.” That’s just how it is.[/quote]

Probably depends on the type of attorney firm you were applying for. If it is immigration law, it’s definitely a yes. One of my good friends is a partner at one the largest and oldest firms in SD and he does not speak a word of Spanish. Either way, you have to admit it’s not because of age discrimination. It is usually due to other qualifications, which is usually based on the bottom line.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=yamashi][quote=bearishgurl]
You have a point about the law school graduate. Law firms will take a “green” law school graduate to do paralegal work over a paralegal with a lot of experience. Law school graduates (whether they have their bar card, or not) WILL work as paralegal because there are not enough attorney positions to go around and haven’t been for at least 15 years. The country is glutted with law school graduates. Part of the reason is that many attorneys stay with their firms long past the age of 65, taking up an “attorney” spot. I know I was discriminated against when (several years ago, before the ACA) I was asked in three different interviews, “How has your health been? and “Have you been healthy, lately?” They wanted to know how much it was going to cost them to provide me with health insurance (small firms) before deciding whether to make a job offer to me … or not. One of the interviewers even took out a clipboard in my interview and started adding up salary and benefits in front of me to see what the total would be! It was uncalled for because I am fit, dress well, present well and wear a size 6-8. I can assure you that they don’t ask those kinds of questions to a 32 year-old in a job interview. And why should I compensate by telling them that I don’t want or need a health policy when they are providing it to their younger workforce?

Of course, you millenials really have no idea about how overt discrimination feels because you have never experienced it … yet. That day will come and it might be sooner than you think.[/quote]

Ok so it sounds like you were a paralegal. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought most paralegals were interim positions for people that just finished their undergraduate and were looking for a mentorship program waiting to either go to Law School or pass the Bar; afterwards they can start practicing and move up to the Attorney ranks. Is this not true? If that’s the case, it would be better for an Attorney to hire someone who they believed would move up to within the firm. Someone that they could vest time into so they can move up the chain. Not sure if it is similar to Accountants, but when my wife was working at a Big 4 firm they started as Juniors, and Seniors, and moved up to a Manager once they passed their CPA exam. I’m not sure how the company would look at a Senior who would never move up to Manager or Senior Manager, but I think that if they compared a person who had the ability to move up within the organization it would be a significant advantage.[/quote]No. A paralegal is a position in a law firm unto itself. Paralegal Programs are typically “Certificate Programs” lasting 1-2 years and either confer an Associate Degree or no degree. The USD program does not confer a degree, nor were the (500 level) classes I took worth credits at any university. It is an occupational certificate program, requiring a bachelor’s degree to enter it. I didn’t have to produce one because I had letters from the required number of attorneys stating that I had X amount of experience in the field and knew what I was doing.

I have never been to law school but could very well possibly pass the CA bar exam . . . with a bit of studying beforehand, of course. In any case, I would not be allowed to sit for it and that ship sailed long ago.

[millennial]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Millennials love old Bernie Sanders.[/quote]

That’s probably a true statement based on polls.

[bearishgurl]

.

[spdrun]

Millennials love old Bernie Sanders.

Maybe they’re smart enough to look past his personal appearance, age, and color to his views?

[Author]

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