WSJ: Second-Mortgage Standoffs Stand in Way of Short Sales

[SD Realtor]

I think it is a bit of an oversimplification of the assignment of blame. Obviously every case is different and while most would assume a delinquent homeowner stops paying both lenders at the same time, it is not a given.

I think what is missed in your analysis bearish is the importance of what has or has not already been written off. That is, if the second already has written the loan off then what do they care if the home forecloses or not. Lets say there are 20 portfolios written off. In my opinion this has much more bearing on the attitude of the second. Furthermore what you did not mention was the payoff from the first. Take a 400k payoff. Say the first was a 550k loan and the second was 90k. Now the home sells for 430k and after closing there is 400k left. So the first offers 3k to the second and keeps the 397k. So why wouldn’t the second try to get more? Now if they use this strategy on 20 portfolios will they get more by playing hardball rather then rolling over for 3k on each one? Obviously there stats show that the answer is yes.

Anyways yes the total blame does fall on the first but it doesn’t matter if the first forecloses quick or not, the second still needs to release the lien. Perhaps if banks were not all bloated with bailout money seconds would not be playing so much hardball eh?

There is plenty of blame to go around for all parties. I had a short sale once upon a time and the first was Wells Fargo Bank and the second was Wells Home Equity and the whole thing almost crashed and burned because Wells Bank would not give Wells Home Equity more then 3k. It is a joke but a very sad joke.

[enron_by_the_sea]

What if someone wanted to actually keep living in their underwater house and simply stopped paying the second while staying current on the first? Will the second TD holder have guts to foreclose?

(I understand that second will keep the lien alive..)

[enron_by_the_sea]

What if someone wanted to actually keep living in their underwater house and simply stopped paying the second while staying current on the first? Will the second TD holder have guts to foreclose?

(I understand that second will keep the lien alive..)

[enron_by_the_sea]

What if someone wanted to actually keep living in their underwater house and simply stopped paying the second while staying current on the first? Will the second TD holder have guts to foreclose?

(I understand that second will keep the lien alive..)

[enron_by_the_sea]

What if someone wanted to actually keep living in their underwater house and simply stopped paying the second while staying current on the first? Will the second TD holder have guts to foreclose?

(I understand that second will keep the lien alive..)

[enron_by_the_sea]

What if someone wanted to actually keep living in their underwater house and simply stopped paying the second while staying current on the first? Will the second TD holder have guts to foreclose?

(I understand that second will keep the lien alive..)

[enron_by_the_sea]

[quote=SD Realtor] I had a short sale once upon a time and the first was Wells Fargo Bank and the second was Wells Home Equity and the whole thing almost crashed and burned because Wells Bank would not give Wells Home Equity more then 3k. It is a joke but a very sad joke.[/quote]

SDR,

it is funny that you bring this incident. I found this story long ago.

http://www.businessinsider.com/wells-fargo-sues-itself-2009-7

Wells Fargo Sues Itself

In this particular case, Wells Fargo holds the first and second mortgages on a condominium, according to Sarasota, Fla., attorney Dan McKillop, who represents the condo owner.

As holder of the first, Wells Fargo is suing all other lien holders, including the holder of the second, which is itself.

Court documents clearly label “Wells Fargo Bank NA” as the plaintiff and “Wells Fargo Bank NA” as a defendant.

Wells Fargo hired Florida Default Law Group., P.L., of Tampa, Fla., to file the lawsuit against itself.

And then Wells Fargo hired another Tampa law firm — Kass, Shuler, Solomon, Spector, Foyle & Singer P.A. — to defend itself against its own lawsuit, according to court documents.

Wells Fargo’s defense lawyers even filed an answer to their client’s own complaint.

“Defendant admits that it is the owner and holder of a mortgage encumbering the subject real property,” the answer reads. “All other allegations of the complaint are denied.”

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/wells-fargo-sues-itself-2009-7#ixzz16oMXGm2P

[enron_by_the_sea]

[quote=SD Realtor] I had a short sale once upon a time and the first was Wells Fargo Bank and the second was Wells Home Equity and the whole thing almost crashed and burned because Wells Bank would not give Wells Home Equity more then 3k. It is a joke but a very sad joke.[/quote]

SDR,

it is funny that you bring this incident. I found this story long ago.

http://www.businessinsider.com/wells-fargo-sues-itself-2009-7

Wells Fargo Sues Itself

In this particular case, Wells Fargo holds the first and second mortgages on a condominium, according to Sarasota, Fla., attorney Dan McKillop, who represents the condo owner.

As holder of the first, Wells Fargo is suing all other lien holders, including the holder of the second, which is itself.

Court documents clearly label “Wells Fargo Bank NA” as the plaintiff and “Wells Fargo Bank NA” as a defendant.

Wells Fargo hired Florida Default Law Group., P.L., of Tampa, Fla., to file the lawsuit against itself.

And then Wells Fargo hired another Tampa law firm — Kass, Shuler, Solomon, Spector, Foyle & Singer P.A. — to defend itself against its own lawsuit, according to court documents.

Wells Fargo’s defense lawyers even filed an answer to their client’s own complaint.

“Defendant admits that it is the owner and holder of a mortgage encumbering the subject real property,” the answer reads. “All other allegations of the complaint are denied.”

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/wells-fargo-sues-itself-2009-7#ixzz16oMXGm2P

[enron_by_the_sea]

[quote=SD Realtor] I had a short sale once upon a time and the first was Wells Fargo Bank and the second was Wells Home Equity and the whole thing almost crashed and burned because Wells Bank would not give Wells Home Equity more then 3k. It is a joke but a very sad joke.[/quote]

SDR,

it is funny that you bring this incident. I found this story long ago.

http://www.businessinsider.com/wells-fargo-sues-itself-2009-7

Wells Fargo Sues Itself

In this particular case, Wells Fargo holds the first and second mortgages on a condominium, according to Sarasota, Fla., attorney Dan McKillop, who represents the condo owner.

As holder of the first, Wells Fargo is suing all other lien holders, including the holder of the second, which is itself.

Court documents clearly label “Wells Fargo Bank NA” as the plaintiff and “Wells Fargo Bank NA” as a defendant.

Wells Fargo hired Florida Default Law Group., P.L., of Tampa, Fla., to file the lawsuit against itself.

And then Wells Fargo hired another Tampa law firm — Kass, Shuler, Solomon, Spector, Foyle & Singer P.A. — to defend itself against its own lawsuit, according to court documents.

Wells Fargo’s defense lawyers even filed an answer to their client’s own complaint.

“Defendant admits that it is the owner and holder of a mortgage encumbering the subject real property,” the answer reads. “All other allegations of the complaint are denied.”

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/wells-fargo-sues-itself-2009-7#ixzz16oMXGm2P

[enron_by_the_sea]

[quote=SD Realtor] I had a short sale once upon a time and the first was Wells Fargo Bank and the second was Wells Home Equity and the whole thing almost crashed and burned because Wells Bank would not give Wells Home Equity more then 3k. It is a joke but a very sad joke.[/quote]

SDR,

it is funny that you bring this incident. I found this story long ago.

http://www.businessinsider.com/wells-fargo-sues-itself-2009-7

Wells Fargo Sues Itself

In this particular case, Wells Fargo holds the first and second mortgages on a condominium, according to Sarasota, Fla., attorney Dan McKillop, who represents the condo owner.

As holder of the first, Wells Fargo is suing all other lien holders, including the holder of the second, which is itself.

Court documents clearly label “Wells Fargo Bank NA” as the plaintiff and “Wells Fargo Bank NA” as a defendant.

Wells Fargo hired Florida Default Law Group., P.L., of Tampa, Fla., to file the lawsuit against itself.

And then Wells Fargo hired another Tampa law firm — Kass, Shuler, Solomon, Spector, Foyle & Singer P.A. — to defend itself against its own lawsuit, according to court documents.

Wells Fargo’s defense lawyers even filed an answer to their client’s own complaint.

“Defendant admits that it is the owner and holder of a mortgage encumbering the subject real property,” the answer reads. “All other allegations of the complaint are denied.”

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/wells-fargo-sues-itself-2009-7#ixzz16oMXGm2P

[enron_by_the_sea]

[quote=SD Realtor] I had a short sale once upon a time and the first was Wells Fargo Bank and the second was Wells Home Equity and the whole thing almost crashed and burned because Wells Bank would not give Wells Home Equity more then 3k. It is a joke but a very sad joke.[/quote]

SDR,

it is funny that you bring this incident. I found this story long ago.

http://www.businessinsider.com/wells-fargo-sues-itself-2009-7

Wells Fargo Sues Itself

In this particular case, Wells Fargo holds the first and second mortgages on a condominium, according to Sarasota, Fla., attorney Dan McKillop, who represents the condo owner.

As holder of the first, Wells Fargo is suing all other lien holders, including the holder of the second, which is itself.

Court documents clearly label “Wells Fargo Bank NA” as the plaintiff and “Wells Fargo Bank NA” as a defendant.

Wells Fargo hired Florida Default Law Group., P.L., of Tampa, Fla., to file the lawsuit against itself.

And then Wells Fargo hired another Tampa law firm — Kass, Shuler, Solomon, Spector, Foyle & Singer P.A. — to defend itself against its own lawsuit, according to court documents.

Wells Fargo’s defense lawyers even filed an answer to their client’s own complaint.

“Defendant admits that it is the owner and holder of a mortgage encumbering the subject real property,” the answer reads. “All other allegations of the complaint are denied.”

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/wells-fargo-sues-itself-2009-7#ixzz16oMXGm2P

[UCGal]

[quote=enron_by_the_sea]What if someone wanted to actually keep living in their underwater house and simply stopped paying the second while staying current on the first? Will the second TD holder have guts to foreclose?

(I understand that second will keep the lien alive..)[/quote]

I’ve seen some courthouse steps action of late that suggests this does happen. A home or condo worth decent $ goes back to bene for a $30k opening bid with no takers… that suggests it’s the second that is foreclosing.

Here’s an example from priorityposting.com yesterday.

Sale Date/Time: 11/29/2010 10:00 AM
Status: Revert to Beneficiary
Estimated Debt: $22,648.77
Bid Amount: $30,000.00
Sale Amount: $30,000.00
TS Number: OLSON, MICHAEL
APN: 415-162-25-43
Priority #: 766571

Property County: San Diego
Property Address: 840 Turquoise Street, Unit 309, San Diego, CA 92109

http://www.sdlookup.com/Property-DEB58675-840_Turquoise_St_309_San_Diego_CA_92109

[UCGal]

[quote=enron_by_the_sea]What if someone wanted to actually keep living in their underwater house and simply stopped paying the second while staying current on the first? Will the second TD holder have guts to foreclose?

(I understand that second will keep the lien alive..)[/quote]

I’ve seen some courthouse steps action of late that suggests this does happen. A home or condo worth decent $ goes back to bene for a $30k opening bid with no takers… that suggests it’s the second that is foreclosing.

Here’s an example from priorityposting.com yesterday.

Sale Date/Time: 11/29/2010 10:00 AM
Status: Revert to Beneficiary
Estimated Debt: $22,648.77
Bid Amount: $30,000.00
Sale Amount: $30,000.00
TS Number: OLSON, MICHAEL
APN: 415-162-25-43
Priority #: 766571

Property County: San Diego
Property Address: 840 Turquoise Street, Unit 309, San Diego, CA 92109

http://www.sdlookup.com/Property-DEB58675-840_Turquoise_St_309_San_Diego_CA_92109

[UCGal]

[quote=enron_by_the_sea]What if someone wanted to actually keep living in their underwater house and simply stopped paying the second while staying current on the first? Will the second TD holder have guts to foreclose?

(I understand that second will keep the lien alive..)[/quote]

I’ve seen some courthouse steps action of late that suggests this does happen. A home or condo worth decent $ goes back to bene for a $30k opening bid with no takers… that suggests it’s the second that is foreclosing.

Here’s an example from priorityposting.com yesterday.

Sale Date/Time: 11/29/2010 10:00 AM
Status: Revert to Beneficiary
Estimated Debt: $22,648.77
Bid Amount: $30,000.00
Sale Amount: $30,000.00
TS Number: OLSON, MICHAEL
APN: 415-162-25-43
Priority #: 766571

Property County: San Diego
Property Address: 840 Turquoise Street, Unit 309, San Diego, CA 92109

http://www.sdlookup.com/Property-DEB58675-840_Turquoise_St_309_San_Diego_CA_92109

[UCGal]

[quote=enron_by_the_sea]What if someone wanted to actually keep living in their underwater house and simply stopped paying the second while staying current on the first? Will the second TD holder have guts to foreclose?

(I understand that second will keep the lien alive..)[/quote]

I’ve seen some courthouse steps action of late that suggests this does happen. A home or condo worth decent $ goes back to bene for a $30k opening bid with no takers… that suggests it’s the second that is foreclosing.

Here’s an example from priorityposting.com yesterday.

Sale Date/Time: 11/29/2010 10:00 AM
Status: Revert to Beneficiary
Estimated Debt: $22,648.77
Bid Amount: $30,000.00
Sale Amount: $30,000.00
TS Number: OLSON, MICHAEL
APN: 415-162-25-43
Priority #: 766571

Property County: San Diego
Property Address: 840 Turquoise Street, Unit 309, San Diego, CA 92109

http://www.sdlookup.com/Property-DEB58675-840_Turquoise_St_309_San_Diego_CA_92109

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