Why Are States So Strapped for Cash? There Are Two Big Reasons

[CA renter]

[quote=harvey][quote=CA renter]For the record, California’s high income tax rate, high fees, etc. are the result of Prop 13. The state lost billions in revenues when Prop 13 passed, so they had to make it up elsewhere.[/quote]

California’s overall (property, income, sales) tax rate is high relative to other states.

Prop 13 may have created a short-term need for cities to compensate with other taxes. That was 40 years ago.

But today California’s overall property tax rates are not even very low (just below the average of other states.)

The Prop 13 debate has nothing to do with the simple fact that California, in general, has high taxation.

And it has even less to do with the fact that the state has long history of taking on debt and unfunded obligations.[/quote]

California’s overall tax rates are somewhat higher than other states — it’s around tenth place (depending on year).

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/statistics/state-and-local-tax-revenue-capita

After the passage of Prop 13, revenues dropped by approximately 60%. By capping the annual increases at 2% (well below the level of property price appreciation in this state), the reduction in revenue was made permanent. By requiring a two-thirds vote for any additional local “special taxes,” Prop 13 prevented local governments from being able to make up for the shortfall in property taxes by imposing new local taxes. Again, these changes created a permanent shortfall in tax revenues, relative to population size and public spending levels; it was not a short-term issue at all.

http://lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3497

As for the argument that we have high taxes because of debt and unfunded obligations (a claim you’ve made without any data to back it up), we need to look at where our money actually goes, and why some of these spending categories are so high.

The majority of our spending goes toward K-12 Education (~42%), Health and Human Services (~29%), Higher Education (~11%), and Corrections and Rehabilitation (~9%).

https://www.sco.ca.gov/state_finances_101_state_spending.html

California has the highest poverty rate in the U.S. when taking cost-of-living into account (17th place without COL adjustment).

http://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2017/jan/20/chad-mayes/true-california-has-nations-highest-poverty-rate-w/

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2016/demo/p60-258.pdf

We also bear ~25% of the country’s illegal immigrant population, which comprises about 6% of our population.

http://www.ppic.org/publication/undocumented-immigrants-in-california/

Approximately 12.3% of our K-12 students are children of illegal immigrants. This percentage is likely underestimated because schools are not allowed to ask families about their immigration status.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/unauthorized-immigrants/map/k-12-share/

These groups (poor and illegal immigrants, along with their children) place a disproportionate burden on our state’s schools, healthcare system, and legal/prison system — exactly where most of our money is going.

Our state is “wealthy” only because a relatively small percentage of our population receives a disproportionate share of our country’s total personal income. There is very little left of our middle class, and what is left is just hanging by a thread.

Pensions are not the cause of our state and local governments’ financial problems (and one could argue that the reduction in staffing that would result from fixing our immigration system and tighening up our welfare system would drastically reduce our pension costs without affecing our revenues by much).

For some perspective, you should take a look at our budget to see where our money goes. The issue is complex; and while those who would greatly benefit from the decimation of public employee unions want to direct the focus on pensions, it’s obvious that pensions are not the main cause of our financial problems.

http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/2014-15/pdf/BudgetSummary/BS_SCH9.pdf

What’s interesting is that these pretend “taxpayer advocates” never talk about all of the other taxpayer guarantees, unearned tax subsidies, and public expenditures, etc. that are draining this state (and our country) of public money and resources. This just covers a relatively small slice of these expenditures:

http://www.dof.ca.gov/Forecasting/Economics/Tax_Expenditure_Reports/documents/Tax_ExpenditureReport_2017-18.pdf

[phaster]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=CA renter]For the record, California’s high income tax rate, high fees, etc. are the result of Prop 13. The state lost billions in revenues when Prop 13 passed, so they had to make it up elsewhere.

And since you’re so concerned about taxpayers and the health of state/county/city finances, have you paid back your unearned tax subsidies, yet?[/quote]

You just obviated any argument to repeal prop 13. If the lost billions have been made up, a repeal of prop 13 would amount to a huge tax increase. No way Jose.[/quote]

sigh,… let’s all take another walk down memory lane

[quote=CA renter]
September 4, 2014 – 6:04pm

I don’t get distracted by non-economic issues where politics are concerned. That’s not to say that these issues are unimportant, but that they pale in comparison to economics.
[/quote]

[quote=CA renter]
October 1, 2014 – 9:23pm

Yes, I’ve been following the pension issue for many, many years (far, far, far longer than you have), and I have also worked with negotiating committees and have done research for public employee unions.

https://piggington.com/how_will_unfunded_pensions_affect_economy?page=3#comment-247382
[/quote]

[quote=CA phaster]
October 22, 2016 – 8:30am

[quote=CA renter]
October 9, 2016 – 1:07am

BTW, you’re not educating or informing anyone of anything. The pension issue was beaten to death LONG before you ever came into the picture.
[/quote]

really???

https://piggington.com/how_will_unfunded_pensions_affect_economy?page=5#comment-262974

https://piggington.com/how_will_unfunded_pensions_affect_economy?page=6#comment-264989
[/quote]

for the record, have to say the inability to recognize basic middle school math concepts and their importance as it relates to managing money, sadly isn’t an isolated case,… seems there is a pandemic of being morally and intellectually bankrupt (i.e. dishonest and dumb) WRT basic finance,… perhaps the root cause is some kind of political self interest???

having said my piece, now let’s go back and review (yet again) the basic math concepts which are key to understanding the local pension portfolio “mismanagement”

for three decades plus, the local public pension portfolio custodians (i.e. politicians) have allowed giving away a 13th pension payment (off balance sheet),… basically this is akin to a 13th mortgage payment on a property (which shortens the pay off period and decreases the over-all interest paid), BUT in this case things work in reverse,… in other words the pension debt obligation will increase over time

http://www.TinyURL.com/SanDiegoSpikingPension

compounding this basic middle school math “error” is public employ leadership (i.e. public pension recipients) who see no problem w/ not requiring fully funding the portfolio,… this action basically is akin to only paying a “minimum credit card payment” but its important to note that things here are happening on a SUPER SIZED scale!!!

http://www.TinyURL.com/PensionRebuttal

AND let’s not forget we are where we are because those responsible for causing this money management mess are basically morally and intellectually challenged (i.e. dishonest and dumb)

bottom line,… given the “California rule” which implies the tax payers are the designated financial backstop for this whole mess,… means eventually there are some serious consequences for local residents AND if the problem(s) is widespread perhaps it might have serious consequences for civilization as a whole,…

http://www.TinyURL.com/DifferentDay

PS one last general observation,… the background knowledge needed to model something as complex/chaotic as climate change or the economy, requires deep knowledge of various fields of study along w/ a basic understanding of how things interact,… what I find ironic is more often than not is politicians and various activists who claim leadership roles,… have in fact the least background knowledge that is required to understand the big picture

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/04/13/602269482/congress-does-not-compute

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2013/01/17/an-awesome-diagram-of-the-113th-congress/

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter]It’s all those Mexican school children that are taking our taxes![/quote]

Name one city that went bankrupt because they educated too many children.

I can name several that went bankrupt because of pension costs.

BTW: Putting lots of links in your posts doesn’t negate your blatant racism.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=harvey][quote=CA renter]It’s all those Mexican school children that are taking our taxes![/quote]

Name one city that went bankrupt because they educated too many children.

I can name several that went bankrupt because of pension costs.

BTW: Putting lots of links in your posts doesn’t negate your blatant racism.[/quote]

CArenter likes to mention the intricacies of municipal finances when convenient. However, according to her, if we just get rid of Prop 13 and Mexican kids, the money will somehow flow directly to pension funds.

Of course, it’s all about protecting the benefits of retirees who no longer contribute. No mention of services that citizens deserve.

Honestly, I’d rather my tax dollars educate kids regardless of legal status. Kids who are integral parts of our community.

[CA renter]

[quote=harvey][quote=CA renter]It’s all those Mexican school children that are taking our taxes![/quote]

Name one city that went bankrupt because they educated too many children.

I can name several that went bankrupt because of pension costs.

BTW: Putting lots of links in your posts doesn’t negate your blatant racism.[/quote]

You’ve done it, yet again. You’ve attempted to make it look like your words and thougths were the thoughts, ideas, or direct quotes of another poster.

Back when people were asking for Brian to be banned because of his political posts, I supported him because I think it’s important to listen to different perspectives. I have *never* supported banning anyone in the entire time I’ve been reading and commenting on Piggington (back when Rich first started this site), and I have never even “ignored” anyone here or on any other platform, but you absolutely deserve to be banned.

Not only do you regularly twist other people’s words into “quotes” that are absolutely unrelated to what they’ve said or implied, you’ve consistently degraded the level of discourse here as a result of your non-stop ad hominem attacks and your total inability to discuss issues by using facts, data, and logic to support your statements. You’ve exhibited a total lack of reading comprehension skills (either that, or you’re maliciously trolling), which has led to vitriolic strings of posts that are absent of any intellectual substance and result in a complete waste of everyone’s time.

For all his faults, Brian was far less offensive than you’ve been, and he got banned. Since his return, you’ve encouraged him to be an even greater nuissance than he was in ~2008. You’re an absolute liability to this community.

[ucodegen]

[quote=harvey][quote=CA renter]It’s all those Mexican school children that are taking our taxes![/quote]

Name one city that went bankrupt because they educated too many children.

I can name several that went bankrupt because of pension costs.

BTW: Putting lots of links in your posts doesn’t negate your blatant racism.[/quote]
Stop misrepresenting quotes to create a talking point. It is possible to cross check this site (piggington.com) using Google to see if that quote was ever made. Firefox is also useful by telling it to highlight all exact matches in the search panel.

[CA renter]

[quote=harvey][quote=CA renter]It’s all those Mexican school children that are taking our taxes![/quote]

Name one city that went bankrupt because they educated too many children.

I can name several that went bankrupt because of pension costs.

BTW: Putting lots of links in your posts doesn’t negate your blatant racism.[/quote]

You’re the one who keeps focusing on race while I keep focusing on economics and facts. The racism is in your head; it swims in there and corrupts your ability to think logically about a variety of issues. Try focusing on what was actually stated, instead of what you imagined (and falsely attributed to me).

As to your point about going bankrupt as a result of educating too many children…

Did you ever bother to actually look at budget numbers? California’s #1 spending category is K-12 education (followed by Health and Human Services, which is also highly impacted by illegal immigration). If you increase the number of students, you increase the amount of resources necessary to educate them, and that includes teachers and their pensions. Those extra students cost state taxpayers a lot of money, and their parents are not paying anywhere near enough to cover these costs. Are you going to pretend that this is not the case?

As I’ve stated multiple times before, I don’t begrudge the immigrants who come here to make a better life for themselves and their families, but I most certainly despise those who abuse them for their cheap, exploitable labor and who don’t want to pay for the costs that society incurs as a result.

You’ve long complained about people who actually use facts, statistics, logic, and cited sources to bolster their arguments (what you call “cut and paste”). Do you honestly think that what you do (making ad hominem attacks, spewing divisive propaganda and establishment talking points, etc.) gives you credibility?

As much as you, zk, and Brian like to complain about Trump and the people who voted for him (I voted for Jill Stein, not Trump, BTW), it’s people like you who are the reason Trump won. I have yet to see you win over a single person with all of your emotionally-based, ill-informed, and hateful rhetoric. If anything, you’ve made them feel more entrenched in their beliefs. Do you do this on purpose?

[CA renter]

[quote=phaster][quote=FlyerInHi][quote=CA renter]For the record, California’s high income tax rate, high fees, etc. are the result of Prop 13. The state lost billions in revenues when Prop 13 passed, so they had to make it up elsewhere.

And since you’re so concerned about taxpayers and the health of state/county/city finances, have you paid back your unearned tax subsidies, yet?[/quote]

You just obviated any argument to repeal prop 13. If the lost billions have been made up, a repeal of prop 13 would amount to a huge tax increase. No way Jose.[/quote]

sigh,… let’s all take another walk down memory lane

[quote=CA renter]
September 4, 2014 – 6:04pm

I don’t get distracted by non-economic issues where politics are concerned. That’s not to say that these issues are unimportant, but that they pale in comparison to economics.
[/quote]

[quote=CA renter]
October 1, 2014 – 9:23pm

Yes, I’ve been following the pension issue for many, many years (far, far, far longer than you have), and I have also worked with negotiating committees and have done research for public employee unions.

https://piggington.com/how_will_unfunded_pensions_affect_economy?page=3#comment-247382
[/quote]

[quote=CA phaster]
October 22, 2016 – 8:30am

[quote=CA renter]
October 9, 2016 – 1:07am

BTW, you’re not educating or informing anyone of anything. The pension issue was beaten to death LONG before you ever came into the picture.
[/quote]

really???

https://piggington.com/how_will_unfunded_pensions_affect_economy?page=5#comment-262974

https://piggington.com/how_will_unfunded_pensions_affect_economy?page=6#comment-264989
[/quote]

for the record, have to say the inability to recognize basic middle school math concepts and their importance as it relates to managing money, sadly isn’t an isolated case,… seems there is a pandemic of being morally and intellectually bankrupt (i.e. dishonest and dumb) WRT basic finance,… perhaps the root cause is some kind of political self interest???

having said my piece, now let’s go back and review (yet again) the basic math concepts which are key to understanding the local pension portfolio “mismanagement”

for three decades plus, the local public pension portfolio custodians (i.e. politicians) have allowed giving away a 13th pension payment (off balance sheet),… basically this is akin to a 13th mortgage payment on a property (which shortens the pay off period and decreases the over-all interest paid), BUT in this case things work in reverse,… in other words the pension debt obligation will increase over time

http://www.TinyURL.com/SanDiegoSpikingPension

compounding this basic middle school math “error” is public employ leadership (i.e. public pension recipients) who see no problem w/ not requiring fully funding the portfolio,… this action basically is akin to only paying a “minimum credit card payment” but its important to note that things here are happening on a SUPER SIZED scale!!!

http://www.TinyURL.com/PensionRebuttal

AND let’s not forget we are where we are because those responsible for causing this money management mess are basically morally and intellectually challenged (i.e. dishonest and dumb)

bottom line,… given the “California rule” which implies the tax payers are the designated financial backstop for this whole mess,… means eventually there are some serious consequences for local residents AND if the problem(s) is widespread perhaps it might have serious consequences for civilization as a whole,…

http://www.TinyURL.com/DifferentDay

PS one last general observation,… the background knowledge needed to model something as complex/chaotic as climate change or the economy, requires deep knowledge of various fields of study along w/ a basic understanding of how things interact,… what I find ironic is more often than not is politicians and various activists who claim leadership roles,… have in fact the least background knowledge that is required to understand the big picture

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/04/13/602269482/congress-does-not-compute

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2013/01/17/an-awesome-diagram-of-the-113th-congress/%5B/quote%5D

You didn’t address any of the issues listed in my post, including the fact that the government (federal, state, and local) backs many different interest groups, not just their employees. Why aren’t you concerned about these groups? What about that juicy taxpayer subsidy, worth thousands of dollars, that you personally receive every year? Why no mention of that?

FWIW, I also disagree with the “13th check,” but this is not what’s causing the problems with the pension systems. San Diego has its own pension fund, so you shouldn’t extend this argument to other systems that do not have this additional payment option. For the record, I strongly oppose pension spiking, and have always done so.

As for making sure that the pension funds are always 100% funded, that would cause unnecessary hardships for public agencies during downturns, and make it look like the funds are over-funded when bubbles form (which is how we got into a lot of our more recent problems…they thought that trees could grow to the sky), which results in reduced funding for the inevitable rainy days that will occur. One of the benefits of DB pension plans is that they focus more on long-term planning, so they do have more flexibility where funding levels are concerned, but they need to be mindful of long-term trends. If not for the Fed’s interest rate manipulations and their resulting bubbles and busts, we would be in a much better place right now.

BTW, you keep pointing out the fact that I have helped out with research, etc. regarding unions. It has never been a secret that I have long been a supporter of unions, including public employee unions. I was a former union member, the daughter of union members (one of whom regularly fought with his union), and the wife of a former union member, along with having various friends, extended family members, etc., who’ve belonged to unions.

I’m an FDR/labor Democrat, and have never shied away from that fact. But I’m also a taxpayer advocate, and have argued against what I see as unethical actions taken by various unions. Unlike you, I have an understanding of how public employers, unions, private contractors, and various special interest groups work, and can tell that you are painfully uneducated about the various stakeholders who want to control public money and resources. You can take a look at the budget that I linked to in my above post. Public pensions are just one part of the budget, and they’re a very small part of the state budget (they’re a bigger part of local budgets because they pay for more services, as opposed to infrastructure).

If you’re opposed to taxpayer guarantees (a perfectly rational perspective, and a conversation worth having), you need to do more research into the topic. You’re missing a much bigger slice of the pie when you just focus on pensions.

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter]
As much as you, zk, and Brian like to complain about Trump and the people who voted for him (I voted for Jill Stein, not Trump, BTW), it’s people like you who are the reason Trump won. I have yet to see you win over a single person with all of your emotionally-based, ill-informed, and hateful rhetoric. If anything, you’ve made them feel more entrenched in their beliefs. Do you do this on purpose?[/quote]

This is a beautiful example of your “logic”:

– You did not vote for Trump.

– I did not vote for Trump.

– Therefore: I’m the reason he was elected.

It makes perfect sense, in your mind.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=harvey][quote=CA renter]
As much as you, zk, and Brian like to complain about Trump and the people who voted for him (I voted for Jill Stein, not Trump, BTW), it’s people like you who are the reason Trump won. I have yet to see you win over a single person with all of your emotionally-based, ill-informed, and hateful rhetoric. If anything, you’ve made them feel more entrenched in their beliefs. Do you do this on purpose?[/quote]

This is a beautiful example of your “logic”:

– You did not vote for Trump.

– I did not vote for Trump.

– Therefore: I’m the reason he was elected.

It makes perfect sense, in your mind.[/quote]

In CARenter’s mind…. the actual people who voted for Trump? Somehow, they are innocent. We made them do it. Analogy would be we made the shooters buy their guns and kill. Because we made them upset about god knows what.

[phaster]

[quote=CA renter][quote=phaster][quote=FlyerInHi][quote=CA renter]For the record, California’s high income tax rate, high fees, etc. are the result of Prop 13. The state lost billions in revenues when Prop 13 passed, so they had to make it up elsewhere.

And since you’re so concerned about taxpayers and the health of state/county/city finances, have you paid back your unearned tax subsidies, yet?[/quote]

You just obviated any argument to repeal prop 13. If the lost billions have been made up, a repeal of prop 13 would amount to a huge tax increase. No way Jose.[/quote]

sigh,… let’s all take another walk down memory lane

[quote=CA renter]
September 4, 2014 – 6:04pm

I don’t get distracted by non-economic issues where politics are concerned. That’s not to say that these issues are unimportant, but that they pale in comparison to economics.
[/quote]

[quote=CA renter]
October 1, 2014 – 9:23pm

Yes, I’ve been following the pension issue for many, many years (far, far, far longer than you have), and I have also worked with negotiating committees and have done research for public employee unions.

https://piggington.com/how_will_unfunded_pensions_affect_economy?page=3#comment-247382
[/quote]

[quote]
October 22, 2016 – 8:30am
[quote=CA renter]
October 9, 2016 – 1:07am

BTW, you’re not educating or informing anyone of anything. The pension issue was beaten to death LONG before you ever came into the picture.
[/quote]

really???

https://piggington.com/how_will_unfunded_pensions_affect_economy?page=5#comment-262974

https://piggington.com/how_will_unfunded_pensions_affect_economy?page=6#comment-264989
[/quote]

for the record, have to say the inability to recognize basic middle school math concepts and their importance as it relates to managing money, sadly isn’t an isolated case,… seems there is a pandemic of being morally and intellectually bankrupt (i.e. dishonest and dumb) WRT basic finance,… perhaps the root cause is some kind of political self interest???

having said my piece, now let’s go back and review (yet again) the basic math concepts which are key to understanding the local pension portfolio “mismanagement”

for three decades plus, the local public pension portfolio custodians (i.e. politicians) have allowed giving away a 13th pension payment (off balance sheet),… basically this is akin to a 13th mortgage payment on a property (which shortens the pay off period and decreases the over-all interest paid), BUT in this case things work in reverse,… in other words the pension debt obligation will increase over time

http://www.TinyURL.com/SanDiegoSpikingPension

compounding this basic middle school math “error” is public employ leadership (i.e. public pension recipients) who see no problem w/ not requiring fully funding the portfolio,… this action basically is akin to only paying a “minimum credit card payment” but its important to note that things here are happening on a SUPER SIZED scale!!!

http://www.TinyURL.com/PensionRebuttal

AND let’s not forget we are where we are because those responsible for causing this money management mess are basically morally and intellectually challenged (i.e. dishonest and dumb)

bottom line,… given the “California rule” which implies the tax payers are the designated financial backstop for this whole mess,… means eventually there are some serious consequences for local residents AND if the problem(s) is widespread perhaps it might have serious consequences for civilization as a whole,…

http://www.TinyURL.com/DifferentDay

PS one last general observation,… the background knowledge needed to model something as complex/chaotic as climate change or the economy, requires deep knowledge of various fields of study along w/ a basic understanding of how things interact,… what I find ironic is more often than not is politicians and various activists who claim leadership roles,… have in fact the least background knowledge that is required to understand the big picture

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/04/13/602269482/congress-does-not-compute

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2013/01/17/an-awesome-diagram-of-the-113th-congress/

[/quote]

You didn’t address any of the issues listed in my post, including the fact that the government (federal, state, and local) backs many different interest groups, not just their employees. Why aren’t you concerned about these groups? What about that juicy taxpayer subsidy, worth thousands of dollars, that you personally receive every year? Why no mention of that?

FWIW, I also disagree with the “13th check,” but this is not what’s causing the problems with the pension systems. San Diego has its own pension fund, so you shouldn’t extend this argument to other systems that do not have this additional payment option. For the record, I strongly oppose pension spiking, and have always done so.

[/quote]

ah, some progress,… you’ve finally acknowledged the local three plus decade SOP of a 13th pension payment,…

now as to why I made no mention of the people who will be adversely affected, it isn’t because I lack any concern for people,… rather doing a realistic analysis of how a public pension portfolio is managed ONLY involves looking at the math

as I see things,… your basically a dumb$hit hypocrite that is in denial that you had a hand putting all of us (i.e. harvey, flu, your own family, etc.) in the position of increased danger,… AND the reason I say this is because on one hand you specifically mention economics should trump politics

[quote=CA renter]
September 4, 2014 – 6:04pm

I don’t get distracted by non-economic issues where politics are concerned. That’s not to say that these issues are unimportant, but that they pale in comparison to economics.
[/quote]

and on the other had you’ve clearly demonstrated you have little or no ability to grasp basic middle school math (which is needed to lessen the probability of failure),… ALSO there are various indications that you don’t grasp the amount of B$ w/ in the ratings system for muni bonds,…

[quote=phaster]
October 22, 2016 – 8:30am

[quote=CA renter]
October 9, 2016 – 1:07am

BTW, you’re not educating or informing anyone of anything. The pension issue was beaten to death LONG before you ever came into the picture.
[/quote]

really???

https://piggington.com/how_will_unfunded_pensions_affect_economy?page=5#comment-262974

https://piggington.com/how_will_unfunded_pensions_affect_economy?page=6#comment-264989
[/quote]

to give you some insight as to how frame the issue, you’ll need to be made aware of a topic in math called “one way functions”

essential a one way function is a calculation that is easy in one direction BUT the opposite is not the case (FYI the practical application of this math is encryption),… anyway as I see things the responsible thing to do is always check the math first, then make life style decisions that take into account environmental and social factors,… perhaps you have hear the term triple-bottomline

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_bottom_line

by looking the math first then taking into account the environmental and social aspects, this greatly improves the odd of the system being sustainable

the irresponsible way to do things is, ignore the math from the beginning (as is the case w/ the way public pensions are structured and operated),… the result in this case is, a much much much greater likely hood of failure!

or another way of thinking about the issue is the difficulty of trying to go backwards on a one way math function

to illustrate the issue in terms you might relate to is,… lets suppose the resident hacker and resident investment genius (i.e. “harvey” and “flu”) decide to collaborate and start an investment club

lets also suppose these two piggs use the same investment strategy as the local pension fund,… where they keep things off balance sheet, don’t take into account inflows or market-returns AND basically just concern themselves on collecting pay offs for themselves and their kin,…

bottom line when OUTFLOW(s) > INFLOW(s) + MARKET RETURN, eventually the scheme goes bust!

in this hypothetical scenario, next lets say we are at a point in time where “harvey” and “flu” are having trouble keeping their ponzi like math scheme going,… so they come up w/ a plan try and get you and your family to pick up the tab for their idiotic investment plan that had no basis reality from the onset, then ignored any sense of basic financial responsibility for three decades,…

would you and your kids bail out these two idiots AND put your own future at risk,… pretty sure you would say hell no

well the prop 13 split roll proposal, as envisioned by various progressive groups,… basically is akin to you being asked to bail out out harvey and flu after they mismanaged a portfolio for 30+ years

there is an old joke about a stock broker that jumps out a window on the 40th floor,… on the way down for 39 floors I can be 100% certain that its not the fall that is going to kill him,… its that sudden stop at the end that is hard to survive

like it or not eventually you and you kids will have to contend w/ consequences of corrupt and mismanaged finances on the whole system,… all because DISHONEST and DUMB individuals ignored the existence of basic math from the onset and set things in motion

http://www.TinyURL.com/DifferentDay

[CA renter]

[quote=harvey][quote=CA renter]
As much as you, zk, and Brian like to complain about Trump and the people who voted for him (I voted for Jill Stein, not Trump, BTW), it’s people like you who are the reason Trump won. I have yet to see you win over a single person with all of your emotionally-based, ill-informed, and hateful rhetoric. If anything, you’ve made them feel more entrenched in their beliefs. Do you do this on purpose?[/quote]

This is a beautiful example of your “logic”:

– You did not vote for Trump.

– I did not vote for Trump.

– Therefore: I’m the reason he was elected.

It makes perfect sense, in your mind.[/quote]

Just review the vicious attacks, on any of your/zk/Brian’s anti-Trump threads, on those who think differently or are in a different position than you are. Look at how you refer to those other people. You, and people like you, are the reason that Trump won. Keep it up, and he’ll win again in 2020.

[CA renter]

Phaster,

You keep harping on pensions, but have failed to note if you’ve returned all of your unearned subsidies, worth at least tens of thousands of dollars over the years.

It’s obvious that you have no clue what you’re talking about. You read some newspaper articles (placed there by anti-union privatization advocates — not “taxpayer advocates,” as they like to claim) regarding the pension issues and think you’re a genius. You’re clearly not that smart, and you totally lack an understanding of how government budgets work — especially how the various stakeholders’ interests intersect.

Come back and talk to us AFTER you’ve done your part first.

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter] I have yet to see you win over a single person with all of your emotionally-based, ill-informed, and hateful rhetoric. [/quote]

According to a very intelligent person, I won over millions of people:

[quote=CA renter]You, and people like you, are the reason that Trump won. [/quote]

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=CA renter][quote=harvey][quote=CA renter]
As much as you, zk, and Brian like to complain about Trump and the people who voted for him (I voted for Jill Stein, not Trump, BTW), it’s people like you who are the reason Trump won. I have yet to see you win over a single person with all of your emotionally-based, ill-informed, and hateful rhetoric. If anything, you’ve made them feel more entrenched in their beliefs. Do you do this on purpose?[/quote]

This is a beautiful example of your “logic”:

– You did not vote for Trump.

– I did not vote for Trump.

– Therefore: I’m the reason he was elected.

It makes perfect sense, in your mind.[/quote]

Just review the vicious attacks, on any of your/zk/Brian’s anti-Trump threads, on those who think differently or are in a different position than you are. Look at how you refer to those other people. You, and people like you, are the reason that Trump won. Keep it up, and he’ll win again in 2020.[/quote]

CAr, this is weirdest logic and reeks of entitlement and inability to take responsibility on the part of Trump voters.

Trumpistas are responsible for the votes they cast. Nobody else can be blamed, except that Russia played their low IQs.

It would be easier to argue that your own association with Trump supporters and your sympathies with them enable them. You are guilty by association.

[Author]

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