Who needs wall street innovation

[patb]

[quote=briansd1]Credit innovation is just a way to borrow from the future in a way that makes it seem less painful today.

People used to buy cars with cash savings. Then they could buy cars with 20% down. Then they bought cars with zero down. Then they leased cars with residual value at the end of the lease.

Consumption/production gets front-loaded but the debts need to be paid back some way, somehow, in the future.

Wall Street “earned” up-front commissions on making credit available so they don’t care if the debt is ever paid back. The onus will be on the government to bailout the system.

We all end-up in debt servitude where all of our income goes to service debt and to pay for services that we think we need.[/quote]

i still buy cars with cash or a 6 month note

[patb]

[quote=davelj]I don’t have a problem with financial innovation, per se. None of the following were “bad” products for the first several years of their existences: securitized mortgages, credit default swaps, option ARMs, etc.

The problem is that the nature of Wall Street is to push every innovation (which may be perfectly useful on a limited scale) to the point that it starts to fail. And recently we had a whole bunch of these pushed to the edge and failing all at the same time.

A simple “30-year fixed-rate mortgage” was once considered a major financial innovation. Would it be better if we eliminated mortgages (or credit cards?) altogether? I think not.

I don’t think the problem is innovation. The problem is the degree to which these innovations are foisted upon folks who should have no exposure to them.[/quote]

the feds invented the 30 year mortgage, the FHA
started selling these during the depression.
i would like to see a defense of all that Wall Street innovation

[patb]

[quote=davelj]I don’t have a problem with financial innovation, per se. None of the following were “bad” products for the first several years of their existences: securitized mortgages, credit default swaps, option ARMs, etc.

The problem is that the nature of Wall Street is to push every innovation (which may be perfectly useful on a limited scale) to the point that it starts to fail. And recently we had a whole bunch of these pushed to the edge and failing all at the same time.

A simple “30-year fixed-rate mortgage” was once considered a major financial innovation. Would it be better if we eliminated mortgages (or credit cards?) altogether? I think not.

I don’t think the problem is innovation. The problem is the degree to which these innovations are foisted upon folks who should have no exposure to them.[/quote]

the feds invented the 30 year mortgage, the FHA
started selling these during the depression.
i would like to see a defense of all that Wall Street innovation

[patb]

[quote=davelj]I don’t have a problem with financial innovation, per se. None of the following were “bad” products for the first several years of their existences: securitized mortgages, credit default swaps, option ARMs, etc.

The problem is that the nature of Wall Street is to push every innovation (which may be perfectly useful on a limited scale) to the point that it starts to fail. And recently we had a whole bunch of these pushed to the edge and failing all at the same time.

A simple “30-year fixed-rate mortgage” was once considered a major financial innovation. Would it be better if we eliminated mortgages (or credit cards?) altogether? I think not.

I don’t think the problem is innovation. The problem is the degree to which these innovations are foisted upon folks who should have no exposure to them.[/quote]

the feds invented the 30 year mortgage, the FHA
started selling these during the depression.
i would like to see a defense of all that Wall Street innovation

[patb]

[quote=davelj]I don’t have a problem with financial innovation, per se. None of the following were “bad” products for the first several years of their existences: securitized mortgages, credit default swaps, option ARMs, etc.

The problem is that the nature of Wall Street is to push every innovation (which may be perfectly useful on a limited scale) to the point that it starts to fail. And recently we had a whole bunch of these pushed to the edge and failing all at the same time.

A simple “30-year fixed-rate mortgage” was once considered a major financial innovation. Would it be better if we eliminated mortgages (or credit cards?) altogether? I think not.

I don’t think the problem is innovation. The problem is the degree to which these innovations are foisted upon folks who should have no exposure to them.[/quote]

the feds invented the 30 year mortgage, the FHA
started selling these during the depression.
i would like to see a defense of all that Wall Street innovation

[patb]

[quote=davelj]I don’t have a problem with financial innovation, per se. None of the following were “bad” products for the first several years of their existences: securitized mortgages, credit default swaps, option ARMs, etc.

The problem is that the nature of Wall Street is to push every innovation (which may be perfectly useful on a limited scale) to the point that it starts to fail. And recently we had a whole bunch of these pushed to the edge and failing all at the same time.

A simple “30-year fixed-rate mortgage” was once considered a major financial innovation. Would it be better if we eliminated mortgages (or credit cards?) altogether? I think not.

I don’t think the problem is innovation. The problem is the degree to which these innovations are foisted upon folks who should have no exposure to them.[/quote]

the feds invented the 30 year mortgage, the FHA
started selling these during the depression.
i would like to see a defense of all that Wall Street innovation

[CA renter]

[quote=davelj]I don’t have a problem with financial innovation, per se. None of the following were “bad” products for the first several years of their existences: securitized mortgages, credit default swaps, option ARMs, etc.

The problem is that the nature of Wall Street is to push every innovation (which may be perfectly useful on a limited scale) to the point that it starts to fail. And recently we had a whole bunch of these pushed to the edge and failing all at the same time.

A simple “30-year fixed-rate mortgage” was once considered a major financial innovation. Would it be better if we eliminated mortgages (or credit cards?) altogether? I think not.

I don’t think the problem is innovation. The problem is the degree to which these innovations are foisted upon folks who should have no exposure to them.[/quote]

If we didn’t have 30-year mortgages or credit cards, prices would be much, much lower (as would wages). Personally, I’d like to see a lot less “innovation” and a return to **saving** for purchases instead of pulling the purchases forward and pushing debt into the future.

I understand that for high-priced items like cars and houses, people will need some kind of credit or they’d only be able to buy when they’re 60. Still, we be better off with 15-year fixed-rate mortgages instead of 30-year. The increased duration simply props up prices of land and housing-related industries.

[CA renter]

[quote=davelj]I don’t have a problem with financial innovation, per se. None of the following were “bad” products for the first several years of their existences: securitized mortgages, credit default swaps, option ARMs, etc.

The problem is that the nature of Wall Street is to push every innovation (which may be perfectly useful on a limited scale) to the point that it starts to fail. And recently we had a whole bunch of these pushed to the edge and failing all at the same time.

A simple “30-year fixed-rate mortgage” was once considered a major financial innovation. Would it be better if we eliminated mortgages (or credit cards?) altogether? I think not.

I don’t think the problem is innovation. The problem is the degree to which these innovations are foisted upon folks who should have no exposure to them.[/quote]

If we didn’t have 30-year mortgages or credit cards, prices would be much, much lower (as would wages). Personally, I’d like to see a lot less “innovation” and a return to **saving** for purchases instead of pulling the purchases forward and pushing debt into the future.

I understand that for high-priced items like cars and houses, people will need some kind of credit or they’d only be able to buy when they’re 60. Still, we be better off with 15-year fixed-rate mortgages instead of 30-year. The increased duration simply props up prices of land and housing-related industries.

[CA renter]

[quote=davelj]I don’t have a problem with financial innovation, per se. None of the following were “bad” products for the first several years of their existences: securitized mortgages, credit default swaps, option ARMs, etc.

The problem is that the nature of Wall Street is to push every innovation (which may be perfectly useful on a limited scale) to the point that it starts to fail. And recently we had a whole bunch of these pushed to the edge and failing all at the same time.

A simple “30-year fixed-rate mortgage” was once considered a major financial innovation. Would it be better if we eliminated mortgages (or credit cards?) altogether? I think not.

I don’t think the problem is innovation. The problem is the degree to which these innovations are foisted upon folks who should have no exposure to them.[/quote]

If we didn’t have 30-year mortgages or credit cards, prices would be much, much lower (as would wages). Personally, I’d like to see a lot less “innovation” and a return to **saving** for purchases instead of pulling the purchases forward and pushing debt into the future.

I understand that for high-priced items like cars and houses, people will need some kind of credit or they’d only be able to buy when they’re 60. Still, we be better off with 15-year fixed-rate mortgages instead of 30-year. The increased duration simply props up prices of land and housing-related industries.

[CA renter]

[quote=davelj]I don’t have a problem with financial innovation, per se. None of the following were “bad” products for the first several years of their existences: securitized mortgages, credit default swaps, option ARMs, etc.

The problem is that the nature of Wall Street is to push every innovation (which may be perfectly useful on a limited scale) to the point that it starts to fail. And recently we had a whole bunch of these pushed to the edge and failing all at the same time.

A simple “30-year fixed-rate mortgage” was once considered a major financial innovation. Would it be better if we eliminated mortgages (or credit cards?) altogether? I think not.

I don’t think the problem is innovation. The problem is the degree to which these innovations are foisted upon folks who should have no exposure to them.[/quote]

If we didn’t have 30-year mortgages or credit cards, prices would be much, much lower (as would wages). Personally, I’d like to see a lot less “innovation” and a return to **saving** for purchases instead of pulling the purchases forward and pushing debt into the future.

I understand that for high-priced items like cars and houses, people will need some kind of credit or they’d only be able to buy when they’re 60. Still, we be better off with 15-year fixed-rate mortgages instead of 30-year. The increased duration simply props up prices of land and housing-related industries.

[CA renter]

[quote=davelj]I don’t have a problem with financial innovation, per se. None of the following were “bad” products for the first several years of their existences: securitized mortgages, credit default swaps, option ARMs, etc.

The problem is that the nature of Wall Street is to push every innovation (which may be perfectly useful on a limited scale) to the point that it starts to fail. And recently we had a whole bunch of these pushed to the edge and failing all at the same time.

A simple “30-year fixed-rate mortgage” was once considered a major financial innovation. Would it be better if we eliminated mortgages (or credit cards?) altogether? I think not.

I don’t think the problem is innovation. The problem is the degree to which these innovations are foisted upon folks who should have no exposure to them.[/quote]

If we didn’t have 30-year mortgages or credit cards, prices would be much, much lower (as would wages). Personally, I’d like to see a lot less “innovation” and a return to **saving** for purchases instead of pulling the purchases forward and pushing debt into the future.

I understand that for high-priced items like cars and houses, people will need some kind of credit or they’d only be able to buy when they’re 60. Still, we be better off with 15-year fixed-rate mortgages instead of 30-year. The increased duration simply props up prices of land and housing-related industries.

[patb]

[quote=CA renter][quote=davelj]I don’t have a problem with financial innovation, per se. None of the following were “bad” products for the first several years of their existences: securitized mortgages, credit default swaps, option ARMs, etc.

The problem is that the nature of Wall Street is to push every innovation (which may be perfectly useful on a limited scale) to the point that it starts to fail. And recently we had a whole bunch of these pushed to the edge and failing all at the same time.

A simple “30-year fixed-rate mortgage” was once considered a major financial innovation. Would it be better if we eliminated mortgages (or credit cards?) altogether? I think not.

I don’t think the problem is innovation. The problem is the degree to which these innovations are foisted upon folks who should have no exposure to them.[/quote]

If we didn’t have 30-year mortgages or credit cards, prices would be much, much lower (as would wages). Personally, I’d like to see a lot less “innovation” and a return to **saving** for purchases instead of pulling the purchases forward and pushing debt into the future.

I understand that for high-priced items like cars and houses, people will need some kind of credit or they’d only be able to buy when they’re 60. Still, we be better off with 15-year fixed-rate mortgages instead of 30-year. The increased duration simply props up prices of land and housing-related industries.[/quote]

i don’t think Canada has 30 year mortgages, instead they do
5 year with 30 year amortizations.

we can have 10 year mortgages with 30 year amortization schedules,
it’s just a form of ARM or balloon payment

[patb]

[quote=CA renter][quote=davelj]I don’t have a problem with financial innovation, per se. None of the following were “bad” products for the first several years of their existences: securitized mortgages, credit default swaps, option ARMs, etc.

The problem is that the nature of Wall Street is to push every innovation (which may be perfectly useful on a limited scale) to the point that it starts to fail. And recently we had a whole bunch of these pushed to the edge and failing all at the same time.

A simple “30-year fixed-rate mortgage” was once considered a major financial innovation. Would it be better if we eliminated mortgages (or credit cards?) altogether? I think not.

I don’t think the problem is innovation. The problem is the degree to which these innovations are foisted upon folks who should have no exposure to them.[/quote]

If we didn’t have 30-year mortgages or credit cards, prices would be much, much lower (as would wages). Personally, I’d like to see a lot less “innovation” and a return to **saving** for purchases instead of pulling the purchases forward and pushing debt into the future.

I understand that for high-priced items like cars and houses, people will need some kind of credit or they’d only be able to buy when they’re 60. Still, we be better off with 15-year fixed-rate mortgages instead of 30-year. The increased duration simply props up prices of land and housing-related industries.[/quote]

i don’t think Canada has 30 year mortgages, instead they do
5 year with 30 year amortizations.

we can have 10 year mortgages with 30 year amortization schedules,
it’s just a form of ARM or balloon payment

[patb]

[quote=CA renter][quote=davelj]I don’t have a problem with financial innovation, per se. None of the following were “bad” products for the first several years of their existences: securitized mortgages, credit default swaps, option ARMs, etc.

The problem is that the nature of Wall Street is to push every innovation (which may be perfectly useful on a limited scale) to the point that it starts to fail. And recently we had a whole bunch of these pushed to the edge and failing all at the same time.

A simple “30-year fixed-rate mortgage” was once considered a major financial innovation. Would it be better if we eliminated mortgages (or credit cards?) altogether? I think not.

I don’t think the problem is innovation. The problem is the degree to which these innovations are foisted upon folks who should have no exposure to them.[/quote]

If we didn’t have 30-year mortgages or credit cards, prices would be much, much lower (as would wages). Personally, I’d like to see a lot less “innovation” and a return to **saving** for purchases instead of pulling the purchases forward and pushing debt into the future.

I understand that for high-priced items like cars and houses, people will need some kind of credit or they’d only be able to buy when they’re 60. Still, we be better off with 15-year fixed-rate mortgages instead of 30-year. The increased duration simply props up prices of land and housing-related industries.[/quote]

i don’t think Canada has 30 year mortgages, instead they do
5 year with 30 year amortizations.

we can have 10 year mortgages with 30 year amortization schedules,
it’s just a form of ARM or balloon payment

[patb]

[quote=CA renter][quote=davelj]I don’t have a problem with financial innovation, per se. None of the following were “bad” products for the first several years of their existences: securitized mortgages, credit default swaps, option ARMs, etc.

The problem is that the nature of Wall Street is to push every innovation (which may be perfectly useful on a limited scale) to the point that it starts to fail. And recently we had a whole bunch of these pushed to the edge and failing all at the same time.

A simple “30-year fixed-rate mortgage” was once considered a major financial innovation. Would it be better if we eliminated mortgages (or credit cards?) altogether? I think not.

I don’t think the problem is innovation. The problem is the degree to which these innovations are foisted upon folks who should have no exposure to them.[/quote]

If we didn’t have 30-year mortgages or credit cards, prices would be much, much lower (as would wages). Personally, I’d like to see a lot less “innovation” and a return to **saving** for purchases instead of pulling the purchases forward and pushing debt into the future.

I understand that for high-priced items like cars and houses, people will need some kind of credit or they’d only be able to buy when they’re 60. Still, we be better off with 15-year fixed-rate mortgages instead of 30-year. The increased duration simply props up prices of land and housing-related industries.[/quote]

i don’t think Canada has 30 year mortgages, instead they do
5 year with 30 year amortizations.

we can have 10 year mortgages with 30 year amortization schedules,
it’s just a form of ARM or balloon payment

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