The new smart financial move is walking away

[4plexowner]

this is a funny thread – rational singles vs delusional marrieds – “and in this corner, wearing the red trunks …”

marriage is an institution that made sense prior to WWII when women had very few choices economically – Rosy the Riveter and women’s lib changed all that – IMO women were better off before although in many cases they were treated as little more than chattel

in college my buddies and I talked about different ways to have monogamous, committed relationships without the ’till death do us part’ anchor of marriage – my favorite was contract marriage – basically a 5 or 7 year contract that could be renewed if desired

one of my favorite SciFi books, “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress” by Robert Heinlein, explores several non-standard forms of marriage – the book’s main character is part of a line marriage where there are several husbands and several wives – the book is set in a penal colony on the moon where there are numerous men for every woman – in this setting women have real power within the society because there are so few of them

one of the main drawbacks to marriage IMO is that men are goal oriented – when the goal is marriage a man is all sugar and spice – courting and wooing with flowers, fancy dates, love notes, poetry, etc – once the goal (marriage) is accomplished, a man hangs the trophy over the mantle and then goes back to whatever he was doing before getting married – the poor woman hangs on the wall wondering what happened to the Romeo she thought she was going to spend the rest of her life with

another of my favorite books (and the only love story on my bookshelves) is Richard Bach’s “The Bridge Across Forever” – he explores many ideas about marriage from a man’s perspective – the most poignant thought: if you believe in marriage, live it fully – if you don’t, get yourself un-married as quickly as possible

Richard’s thought helped me end an ill-considered marriage and now, like Rex Harrison in “My Fair Lady”, I’m a confirmed old bachelor and likely to remain so

[briansd1]

[quote=jpinpb]HOWEVER, watching my friends and family w/children, I beg to differ on having children as being a selfish act. I think having kids has to be the most selfless act a person can do. It takes your time, energy, money, effort and most important your love. You sacrifice your life to your children. Far from being selfish. [/quote]

I knew someone would come up with that response.

Parents maybe generous to their kids but there are strings attached and future expectations involved.

To me a real selfless person would do good upon strangers with no expectations of return affection or rewards.

I watch my sister-in-law and she lives for her child. Without the child they would be divorced already. The child keeps her busy and out of my brother’s hair so it works out just fine. The child gives her purpose in life.

Sure my brother loves his kid but it was more for her than for him.

BTW, it was supposed to be an “accident”. Sure it was.

[briansd1]

[quote=jpinpb]HOWEVER, watching my friends and family w/children, I beg to differ on having children as being a selfish act. I think having kids has to be the most selfless act a person can do. It takes your time, energy, money, effort and most important your love. You sacrifice your life to your children. Far from being selfish. [/quote]

I knew someone would come up with that response.

Parents maybe generous to their kids but there are strings attached and future expectations involved.

To me a real selfless person would do good upon strangers with no expectations of return affection or rewards.

I watch my sister-in-law and she lives for her child. Without the child they would be divorced already. The child keeps her busy and out of my brother’s hair so it works out just fine. The child gives her purpose in life.

Sure my brother loves his kid but it was more for her than for him.

BTW, it was supposed to be an “accident”. Sure it was.

[briansd1]

[quote=jpinpb]HOWEVER, watching my friends and family w/children, I beg to differ on having children as being a selfish act. I think having kids has to be the most selfless act a person can do. It takes your time, energy, money, effort and most important your love. You sacrifice your life to your children. Far from being selfish. [/quote]

I knew someone would come up with that response.

Parents maybe generous to their kids but there are strings attached and future expectations involved.

To me a real selfless person would do good upon strangers with no expectations of return affection or rewards.

I watch my sister-in-law and she lives for her child. Without the child they would be divorced already. The child keeps her busy and out of my brother’s hair so it works out just fine. The child gives her purpose in life.

Sure my brother loves his kid but it was more for her than for him.

BTW, it was supposed to be an “accident”. Sure it was.

[briansd1]

[quote=jpinpb]HOWEVER, watching my friends and family w/children, I beg to differ on having children as being a selfish act. I think having kids has to be the most selfless act a person can do. It takes your time, energy, money, effort and most important your love. You sacrifice your life to your children. Far from being selfish. [/quote]

I knew someone would come up with that response.

Parents maybe generous to their kids but there are strings attached and future expectations involved.

To me a real selfless person would do good upon strangers with no expectations of return affection or rewards.

I watch my sister-in-law and she lives for her child. Without the child they would be divorced already. The child keeps her busy and out of my brother’s hair so it works out just fine. The child gives her purpose in life.

Sure my brother loves his kid but it was more for her than for him.

BTW, it was supposed to be an “accident”. Sure it was.

[briansd1]

[quote=jpinpb]HOWEVER, watching my friends and family w/children, I beg to differ on having children as being a selfish act. I think having kids has to be the most selfless act a person can do. It takes your time, energy, money, effort and most important your love. You sacrifice your life to your children. Far from being selfish. [/quote]

I knew someone would come up with that response.

Parents maybe generous to their kids but there are strings attached and future expectations involved.

To me a real selfless person would do good upon strangers with no expectations of return affection or rewards.

I watch my sister-in-law and she lives for her child. Without the child they would be divorced already. The child keeps her busy and out of my brother’s hair so it works out just fine. The child gives her purpose in life.

Sure my brother loves his kid but it was more for her than for him.

BTW, it was supposed to be an “accident”. Sure it was.

[an]

[quote=briansd1]I watch my sister-in-law and she lives for her child. Without the child they would be divorced already. The child keeps her busy and out of my brother’s hair so it works out just fine. The child gives her purpose in life.

Sure my brother loves his kid but it was more for her than for him.

BTW, it was supposed to be an “accident”. Sure it was.[/quote]
Two people giving up personal happiness for the happiness and betterment of another person. Sounds pretty selfless to me. When’s the last time you sacrifice your own happiness for the happiness of another?

[an]

[quote=briansd1]I watch my sister-in-law and she lives for her child. Without the child they would be divorced already. The child keeps her busy and out of my brother’s hair so it works out just fine. The child gives her purpose in life.

Sure my brother loves his kid but it was more for her than for him.

BTW, it was supposed to be an “accident”. Sure it was.[/quote]
Two people giving up personal happiness for the happiness and betterment of another person. Sounds pretty selfless to me. When’s the last time you sacrifice your own happiness for the happiness of another?

[an]

[quote=briansd1]I watch my sister-in-law and she lives for her child. Without the child they would be divorced already. The child keeps her busy and out of my brother’s hair so it works out just fine. The child gives her purpose in life.

Sure my brother loves his kid but it was more for her than for him.

BTW, it was supposed to be an “accident”. Sure it was.[/quote]
Two people giving up personal happiness for the happiness and betterment of another person. Sounds pretty selfless to me. When’s the last time you sacrifice your own happiness for the happiness of another?

[an]

[quote=briansd1]I watch my sister-in-law and she lives for her child. Without the child they would be divorced already. The child keeps her busy and out of my brother’s hair so it works out just fine. The child gives her purpose in life.

Sure my brother loves his kid but it was more for her than for him.

BTW, it was supposed to be an “accident”. Sure it was.[/quote]
Two people giving up personal happiness for the happiness and betterment of another person. Sounds pretty selfless to me. When’s the last time you sacrifice your own happiness for the happiness of another?

[an]

[quote=briansd1]I watch my sister-in-law and she lives for her child. Without the child they would be divorced already. The child keeps her busy and out of my brother’s hair so it works out just fine. The child gives her purpose in life.

Sure my brother loves his kid but it was more for her than for him.

BTW, it was supposed to be an “accident”. Sure it was.[/quote]
Two people giving up personal happiness for the happiness and betterment of another person. Sounds pretty selfless to me. When’s the last time you sacrifice your own happiness for the happiness of another?

[davelj]

[quote=jpinpb]

I don’t have any kids, though for a very long time I desired children. The universe had a say in that. Here I also understand both sides. The world is overpopulated, I agree. HOWEVER, watching my friends and family w/children, I beg to differ on having children as being a selfish act. I think having kids has to be the most selfless act a person can do. It takes your time, energy, money, effort and most important your love. You sacrifice your life to your children. Far from being selfish.
[/quote]

I’m not an environmentalist. Let me say that again: I’m NOT an environmentalist. But… there is no debating the observation that having children is bad for the environment. [We’ve discussed this before: the total pollution engendered by children and their children’s children and so on is horrible for the environment. The “present value” of environmental damage – so to speak – of having a couple of children that reproduce themselves is enormous.] Choosing not to have children has it’s own selfish dimension (as all decisions do). But choosing to have children takes it to a whole different level once environmental issues are taken into consideration. So, although it’s counter-intuitive, I’d argue that having children is far more selfish than not having children when viewed in an environmental context. [Again, not that I care – I could care less if anyone wants to have kids – but let’s at least tally up the environmental damage and assign it properly.]

You state that, “You sacrifice your life to your children.” The operative word being “YOUR.” Sounds pretty selfish to me.

[davelj]

[quote=jpinpb]

I don’t have any kids, though for a very long time I desired children. The universe had a say in that. Here I also understand both sides. The world is overpopulated, I agree. HOWEVER, watching my friends and family w/children, I beg to differ on having children as being a selfish act. I think having kids has to be the most selfless act a person can do. It takes your time, energy, money, effort and most important your love. You sacrifice your life to your children. Far from being selfish.
[/quote]

I’m not an environmentalist. Let me say that again: I’m NOT an environmentalist. But… there is no debating the observation that having children is bad for the environment. [We’ve discussed this before: the total pollution engendered by children and their children’s children and so on is horrible for the environment. The “present value” of environmental damage – so to speak – of having a couple of children that reproduce themselves is enormous.] Choosing not to have children has it’s own selfish dimension (as all decisions do). But choosing to have children takes it to a whole different level once environmental issues are taken into consideration. So, although it’s counter-intuitive, I’d argue that having children is far more selfish than not having children when viewed in an environmental context. [Again, not that I care – I could care less if anyone wants to have kids – but let’s at least tally up the environmental damage and assign it properly.]

You state that, “You sacrifice your life to your children.” The operative word being “YOUR.” Sounds pretty selfish to me.

[davelj]

[quote=jpinpb]

I don’t have any kids, though for a very long time I desired children. The universe had a say in that. Here I also understand both sides. The world is overpopulated, I agree. HOWEVER, watching my friends and family w/children, I beg to differ on having children as being a selfish act. I think having kids has to be the most selfless act a person can do. It takes your time, energy, money, effort and most important your love. You sacrifice your life to your children. Far from being selfish.
[/quote]

I’m not an environmentalist. Let me say that again: I’m NOT an environmentalist. But… there is no debating the observation that having children is bad for the environment. [We’ve discussed this before: the total pollution engendered by children and their children’s children and so on is horrible for the environment. The “present value” of environmental damage – so to speak – of having a couple of children that reproduce themselves is enormous.] Choosing not to have children has it’s own selfish dimension (as all decisions do). But choosing to have children takes it to a whole different level once environmental issues are taken into consideration. So, although it’s counter-intuitive, I’d argue that having children is far more selfish than not having children when viewed in an environmental context. [Again, not that I care – I could care less if anyone wants to have kids – but let’s at least tally up the environmental damage and assign it properly.]

You state that, “You sacrifice your life to your children.” The operative word being “YOUR.” Sounds pretty selfish to me.

[davelj]

[quote=jpinpb]

I don’t have any kids, though for a very long time I desired children. The universe had a say in that. Here I also understand both sides. The world is overpopulated, I agree. HOWEVER, watching my friends and family w/children, I beg to differ on having children as being a selfish act. I think having kids has to be the most selfless act a person can do. It takes your time, energy, money, effort and most important your love. You sacrifice your life to your children. Far from being selfish.
[/quote]

I’m not an environmentalist. Let me say that again: I’m NOT an environmentalist. But… there is no debating the observation that having children is bad for the environment. [We’ve discussed this before: the total pollution engendered by children and their children’s children and so on is horrible for the environment. The “present value” of environmental damage – so to speak – of having a couple of children that reproduce themselves is enormous.] Choosing not to have children has it’s own selfish dimension (as all decisions do). But choosing to have children takes it to a whole different level once environmental issues are taken into consideration. So, although it’s counter-intuitive, I’d argue that having children is far more selfish than not having children when viewed in an environmental context. [Again, not that I care – I could care less if anyone wants to have kids – but let’s at least tally up the environmental damage and assign it properly.]

You state that, “You sacrifice your life to your children.” The operative word being “YOUR.” Sounds pretty selfish to me.

[Author]

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