The Internet may not have had the impact we all thought it would on housing

[sdduuuude]

treehugger – I was once told by a smart guy that real-estate attorneys make real-estate transactions a nightmare. I believe him. Lawyers already drafed up all the forms. You just need a good escrow agent, really, to organize everything.

Realtors are not about finding a house, they are about getting you through the process. Though, for busy people, having a realtor preview places is very useful. If you don’t want to waste time shopping, a realtor is a big time-saver. If you like shopping around, it can be a little annoying that you need one to let you in. You could always call the listing agent and tell them you don’t have an agent. They’ll let you in in a heartbeat and try to sign you up. Just view the house, then decline their services as a buyers agent.

Piggs don’t need realtors, but the rest of the world does because it is a pretty complicated process. Sure, it is complicated, in part, due to the realtors, but most of the legal pitfalls are certainly real, and would be there with or without agents.

For sure, you can find a realtor who will work on an hourly basis to show you homes and sign the forms as your agent. You just do the legwork to minimize their time.

Still, your situation is the exception. Most people need help.

[sdrealtor]

Dude
Sounds likes a smart guy.

xBoxBoy
I wish that I could find supporting evidence but it is just impossible to quantify. I wish I could. Maybe I’m just trying to understand and get others to consider something they may not have before. This all plays out in a very unpredictable way on a daily basis. Properties can sit on the market without an offer for weeks or months and suddenly 3 offers show up in one day. I constantly try to understand it and it constantly surprises.

Here is an example of how the Internet changed things. In the past you went to see a hot new listing and made a decision as to the value based upon your perception of the balance between supply/demand . Now you go to see a hot new listing and run into several others waiting out front for their chance to see it also. Finding one you like isnt easy and other buyers are looking for the same thing you are. You see demand in front of your face instead of relying on what you thought it was. You may say “i’m not gonna get caught in a bidding war or compete with those buyers” so you move on. Not everyone thinks that way and the house sells for more than you thought it was worth. This happens a couple times. Prices are set at the margin which cuts both ways.

[sdrealtor]

Dude
Sounds likes a smart guy.

xBoxBoy
I wish that I could find supporting evidence but it is just impossible to quantify. I wish I could. Maybe I’m just trying to understand and get others to consider something they may not have before. This all plays out in a very unpredictable way on a daily basis. Properties can sit on the market without an offer for weeks or months and suddenly 3 offers show up in one day. I constantly try to understand it and it constantly surprises.

Here is an example of how the Internet changed things. In the past you went to see a hot new listing and made a decision as to the value based upon your perception of the balance between supply/demand . Now you go to see a hot new listing and run into several others waiting out front for their chance to see it also. Finding one you like isnt easy and other buyers are looking for the same thing you are. You see demand in front of your face instead of relying on what you thought it was. You may say “i’m not gonna get caught in a bidding war or compete with those buyers” so you move on. Not everyone thinks that way and the house sells for more than you thought it was worth. This happens a couple times. Prices are set at the margin which cuts both ways.

[sdrealtor]

Dude
Sounds likes a smart guy.

xBoxBoy
I wish that I could find supporting evidence but it is just impossible to quantify. I wish I could. Maybe I’m just trying to understand and get others to consider something they may not have before. This all plays out in a very unpredictable way on a daily basis. Properties can sit on the market without an offer for weeks or months and suddenly 3 offers show up in one day. I constantly try to understand it and it constantly surprises.

Here is an example of how the Internet changed things. In the past you went to see a hot new listing and made a decision as to the value based upon your perception of the balance between supply/demand . Now you go to see a hot new listing and run into several others waiting out front for their chance to see it also. Finding one you like isnt easy and other buyers are looking for the same thing you are. You see demand in front of your face instead of relying on what you thought it was. You may say “i’m not gonna get caught in a bidding war or compete with those buyers” so you move on. Not everyone thinks that way and the house sells for more than you thought it was worth. This happens a couple times. Prices are set at the margin which cuts both ways.

[sdrealtor]

Dude
Sounds likes a smart guy.

xBoxBoy
I wish that I could find supporting evidence but it is just impossible to quantify. I wish I could. Maybe I’m just trying to understand and get others to consider something they may not have before. This all plays out in a very unpredictable way on a daily basis. Properties can sit on the market without an offer for weeks or months and suddenly 3 offers show up in one day. I constantly try to understand it and it constantly surprises.

Here is an example of how the Internet changed things. In the past you went to see a hot new listing and made a decision as to the value based upon your perception of the balance between supply/demand . Now you go to see a hot new listing and run into several others waiting out front for their chance to see it also. Finding one you like isnt easy and other buyers are looking for the same thing you are. You see demand in front of your face instead of relying on what you thought it was. You may say “i’m not gonna get caught in a bidding war or compete with those buyers” so you move on. Not everyone thinks that way and the house sells for more than you thought it was worth. This happens a couple times. Prices are set at the margin which cuts both ways.

[sdrealtor]

Dude
Sounds likes a smart guy.

xBoxBoy
I wish that I could find supporting evidence but it is just impossible to quantify. I wish I could. Maybe I’m just trying to understand and get others to consider something they may not have before. This all plays out in a very unpredictable way on a daily basis. Properties can sit on the market without an offer for weeks or months and suddenly 3 offers show up in one day. I constantly try to understand it and it constantly surprises.

Here is an example of how the Internet changed things. In the past you went to see a hot new listing and made a decision as to the value based upon your perception of the balance between supply/demand . Now you go to see a hot new listing and run into several others waiting out front for their chance to see it also. Finding one you like isnt easy and other buyers are looking for the same thing you are. You see demand in front of your face instead of relying on what you thought it was. You may say “i’m not gonna get caught in a bidding war or compete with those buyers” so you move on. Not everyone thinks that way and the house sells for more than you thought it was worth. This happens a couple times. Prices are set at the margin which cuts both ways.

[sdrealtor]

[quote=sdduuuude][quote=sdrealtor]There is a fairly widely held hypothesis that because we can find so much more information online about real estate that the market is more efficient and hence prices should be relatively lower now.[/quote]

sdr, I think I’m going to correct you by saying that I don’t think that is how I would describe the “fairly widely held hypothesis”

You say the hypothesis is that the market is more efficient and hence prices should be lower now.

I think, a few years ago, the hypothesis was this:
1) Prices are well above fundamentals.
2) Without the internet, it would take a long time for prices to drop. With the internet, prices should adjust more quickly to a level supported by fundamentals.

The hypothesis was about the speed of correction, not the price level to which it would correct.

You have to admit, such a large plunge in 3 years from 2005 to 2008 is a pretty rapid adjustment.[/quote]

Didnt realize it was such a large plunge. I have a listing in escrow that was purchased in 2006 (definitely paid a peak price and NO I didnt sell it to them) which will close this week 12% below the prior sales price. Assuming the decline started in 2007, thats about 4% per year;)

[sdrealtor]

[quote=sdduuuude][quote=sdrealtor]There is a fairly widely held hypothesis that because we can find so much more information online about real estate that the market is more efficient and hence prices should be relatively lower now.[/quote]

sdr, I think I’m going to correct you by saying that I don’t think that is how I would describe the “fairly widely held hypothesis”

You say the hypothesis is that the market is more efficient and hence prices should be lower now.

I think, a few years ago, the hypothesis was this:
1) Prices are well above fundamentals.
2) Without the internet, it would take a long time for prices to drop. With the internet, prices should adjust more quickly to a level supported by fundamentals.

The hypothesis was about the speed of correction, not the price level to which it would correct.

You have to admit, such a large plunge in 3 years from 2005 to 2008 is a pretty rapid adjustment.[/quote]

Didnt realize it was such a large plunge. I have a listing in escrow that was purchased in 2006 (definitely paid a peak price and NO I didnt sell it to them) which will close this week 12% below the prior sales price. Assuming the decline started in 2007, thats about 4% per year;)

[sdrealtor]

[quote=sdduuuude][quote=sdrealtor]There is a fairly widely held hypothesis that because we can find so much more information online about real estate that the market is more efficient and hence prices should be relatively lower now.[/quote]

sdr, I think I’m going to correct you by saying that I don’t think that is how I would describe the “fairly widely held hypothesis”

You say the hypothesis is that the market is more efficient and hence prices should be lower now.

I think, a few years ago, the hypothesis was this:
1) Prices are well above fundamentals.
2) Without the internet, it would take a long time for prices to drop. With the internet, prices should adjust more quickly to a level supported by fundamentals.

The hypothesis was about the speed of correction, not the price level to which it would correct.

You have to admit, such a large plunge in 3 years from 2005 to 2008 is a pretty rapid adjustment.[/quote]

Didnt realize it was such a large plunge. I have a listing in escrow that was purchased in 2006 (definitely paid a peak price and NO I didnt sell it to them) which will close this week 12% below the prior sales price. Assuming the decline started in 2007, thats about 4% per year;)

[sdrealtor]

[quote=sdduuuude][quote=sdrealtor]There is a fairly widely held hypothesis that because we can find so much more information online about real estate that the market is more efficient and hence prices should be relatively lower now.[/quote]

sdr, I think I’m going to correct you by saying that I don’t think that is how I would describe the “fairly widely held hypothesis”

You say the hypothesis is that the market is more efficient and hence prices should be lower now.

I think, a few years ago, the hypothesis was this:
1) Prices are well above fundamentals.
2) Without the internet, it would take a long time for prices to drop. With the internet, prices should adjust more quickly to a level supported by fundamentals.

The hypothesis was about the speed of correction, not the price level to which it would correct.

You have to admit, such a large plunge in 3 years from 2005 to 2008 is a pretty rapid adjustment.[/quote]

Didnt realize it was such a large plunge. I have a listing in escrow that was purchased in 2006 (definitely paid a peak price and NO I didnt sell it to them) which will close this week 12% below the prior sales price. Assuming the decline started in 2007, thats about 4% per year;)

[sdrealtor]

[quote=sdduuuude][quote=sdrealtor]There is a fairly widely held hypothesis that because we can find so much more information online about real estate that the market is more efficient and hence prices should be relatively lower now.[/quote]

sdr, I think I’m going to correct you by saying that I don’t think that is how I would describe the “fairly widely held hypothesis”

You say the hypothesis is that the market is more efficient and hence prices should be lower now.

I think, a few years ago, the hypothesis was this:
1) Prices are well above fundamentals.
2) Without the internet, it would take a long time for prices to drop. With the internet, prices should adjust more quickly to a level supported by fundamentals.

The hypothesis was about the speed of correction, not the price level to which it would correct.

You have to admit, such a large plunge in 3 years from 2005 to 2008 is a pretty rapid adjustment.[/quote]

Didnt realize it was such a large plunge. I have a listing in escrow that was purchased in 2006 (definitely paid a peak price and NO I didnt sell it to them) which will close this week 12% below the prior sales price. Assuming the decline started in 2007, thats about 4% per year;)

[5yearwaiter]

[quote=sdrealtor][quote=5yearwaiter]Though we are in very advanced internet era – I surprised to see – A unnecessary dominent role of realtor involvement (6% commission) and a lot mortgage closing costs. If anyone take a close look at these these are really waste and unwanted costs that are deviating the current housing trends. Why not streamline much these and naildown those costs to simply near to 1% or 2%? I wish to take the full advantage of internet and stream line several actions in the realestate market not only listing and data but also naildown the lot extra money trasnfer.

A realtor :- Just open the lock and tour the house and throw the 14 pages offer after we signed.

Escrow:- Almost 10K plus closing costs.

My thoughts appear to be bit ruide but still I believe we are not yet taken full advantage of internet. The funny thing is today if you refinance the same house with same lender still you need to ponder a lot money for same title with the same lender – but why ? where is the work that involved that much money to submit after all refinance with in the same lender with same data.[/quote]

Sorry but I got to break my own rule and respond to this one. In one breathe we’ll talk about how this is the biggest transaction of our lives and how can people be so stupid/uninformed. Then in the next breathe comment that “Just open the lock and tour the house and throw the 14 pages offer after we signed”. You are not buying a loaf of bread. These can be very complex transactions. It is impossible to appreciate this unless you have been involved with dozens of them over many years. Are some of them simple? Absolutely though I havent seen a simple one in a couple years. You just dont know what is coming down the pike until you are knee deep in it.

Last year I took some listings up in the Temecula area. I wont take them anymore because the calibur of agent up there has been abysmal from my experience. I know they must exist but I have yet to meet a competent agent in that market. Frankly I dont understand how houses get sold up there when no one knows what they are doing. Extrapolating that to consumers handling their own transactions is even worse. Call me crazy but I dont see that as a viable answer.[/quote]

Well if real internet advantage had been taken then whatever amount of contributions you rendered in that Temecula area would have been streamlined by internet too – and then everyone get the same choice to know the facts. When first internet sales started it wasn’t made firm rules but now everything through internet you can get. Now “there are rules”, “there are voices” and reviews. I can gurantee no one can run or escape when everything exposed to everybody. I am not saying to eliminate realtor but saying stream line many things via a correct process including realtors are part of it and also that has some embedded rules then you see how easy those sales and as well those refinancing of mortgage. Sure it is going to be easy to know the facts on the listed houses instead lingering on various databanks to seek and knock. I assume with the vested interests only this housing is not really standardized with internet standards – though there are fair amount of chances exist.

[5yearwaiter]

[quote=sdrealtor][quote=5yearwaiter]Though we are in very advanced internet era – I surprised to see – A unnecessary dominent role of realtor involvement (6% commission) and a lot mortgage closing costs. If anyone take a close look at these these are really waste and unwanted costs that are deviating the current housing trends. Why not streamline much these and naildown those costs to simply near to 1% or 2%? I wish to take the full advantage of internet and stream line several actions in the realestate market not only listing and data but also naildown the lot extra money trasnfer.

A realtor :- Just open the lock and tour the house and throw the 14 pages offer after we signed.

Escrow:- Almost 10K plus closing costs.

My thoughts appear to be bit ruide but still I believe we are not yet taken full advantage of internet. The funny thing is today if you refinance the same house with same lender still you need to ponder a lot money for same title with the same lender – but why ? where is the work that involved that much money to submit after all refinance with in the same lender with same data.[/quote]

Sorry but I got to break my own rule and respond to this one. In one breathe we’ll talk about how this is the biggest transaction of our lives and how can people be so stupid/uninformed. Then in the next breathe comment that “Just open the lock and tour the house and throw the 14 pages offer after we signed”. You are not buying a loaf of bread. These can be very complex transactions. It is impossible to appreciate this unless you have been involved with dozens of them over many years. Are some of them simple? Absolutely though I havent seen a simple one in a couple years. You just dont know what is coming down the pike until you are knee deep in it.

Last year I took some listings up in the Temecula area. I wont take them anymore because the calibur of agent up there has been abysmal from my experience. I know they must exist but I have yet to meet a competent agent in that market. Frankly I dont understand how houses get sold up there when no one knows what they are doing. Extrapolating that to consumers handling their own transactions is even worse. Call me crazy but I dont see that as a viable answer.[/quote]

Well if real internet advantage had been taken then whatever amount of contributions you rendered in that Temecula area would have been streamlined by internet too – and then everyone get the same choice to know the facts. When first internet sales started it wasn’t made firm rules but now everything through internet you can get. Now “there are rules”, “there are voices” and reviews. I can gurantee no one can run or escape when everything exposed to everybody. I am not saying to eliminate realtor but saying stream line many things via a correct process including realtors are part of it and also that has some embedded rules then you see how easy those sales and as well those refinancing of mortgage. Sure it is going to be easy to know the facts on the listed houses instead lingering on various databanks to seek and knock. I assume with the vested interests only this housing is not really standardized with internet standards – though there are fair amount of chances exist.

[5yearwaiter]

[quote=sdrealtor][quote=5yearwaiter]Though we are in very advanced internet era – I surprised to see – A unnecessary dominent role of realtor involvement (6% commission) and a lot mortgage closing costs. If anyone take a close look at these these are really waste and unwanted costs that are deviating the current housing trends. Why not streamline much these and naildown those costs to simply near to 1% or 2%? I wish to take the full advantage of internet and stream line several actions in the realestate market not only listing and data but also naildown the lot extra money trasnfer.

A realtor :- Just open the lock and tour the house and throw the 14 pages offer after we signed.

Escrow:- Almost 10K plus closing costs.

My thoughts appear to be bit ruide but still I believe we are not yet taken full advantage of internet. The funny thing is today if you refinance the same house with same lender still you need to ponder a lot money for same title with the same lender – but why ? where is the work that involved that much money to submit after all refinance with in the same lender with same data.[/quote]

Sorry but I got to break my own rule and respond to this one. In one breathe we’ll talk about how this is the biggest transaction of our lives and how can people be so stupid/uninformed. Then in the next breathe comment that “Just open the lock and tour the house and throw the 14 pages offer after we signed”. You are not buying a loaf of bread. These can be very complex transactions. It is impossible to appreciate this unless you have been involved with dozens of them over many years. Are some of them simple? Absolutely though I havent seen a simple one in a couple years. You just dont know what is coming down the pike until you are knee deep in it.

Last year I took some listings up in the Temecula area. I wont take them anymore because the calibur of agent up there has been abysmal from my experience. I know they must exist but I have yet to meet a competent agent in that market. Frankly I dont understand how houses get sold up there when no one knows what they are doing. Extrapolating that to consumers handling their own transactions is even worse. Call me crazy but I dont see that as a viable answer.[/quote]

Well if real internet advantage had been taken then whatever amount of contributions you rendered in that Temecula area would have been streamlined by internet too – and then everyone get the same choice to know the facts. When first internet sales started it wasn’t made firm rules but now everything through internet you can get. Now “there are rules”, “there are voices” and reviews. I can gurantee no one can run or escape when everything exposed to everybody. I am not saying to eliminate realtor but saying stream line many things via a correct process including realtors are part of it and also that has some embedded rules then you see how easy those sales and as well those refinancing of mortgage. Sure it is going to be easy to know the facts on the listed houses instead lingering on various databanks to seek and knock. I assume with the vested interests only this housing is not really standardized with internet standards – though there are fair amount of chances exist.

[5yearwaiter]

[quote=sdrealtor][quote=5yearwaiter]Though we are in very advanced internet era – I surprised to see – A unnecessary dominent role of realtor involvement (6% commission) and a lot mortgage closing costs. If anyone take a close look at these these are really waste and unwanted costs that are deviating the current housing trends. Why not streamline much these and naildown those costs to simply near to 1% or 2%? I wish to take the full advantage of internet and stream line several actions in the realestate market not only listing and data but also naildown the lot extra money trasnfer.

A realtor :- Just open the lock and tour the house and throw the 14 pages offer after we signed.

Escrow:- Almost 10K plus closing costs.

My thoughts appear to be bit ruide but still I believe we are not yet taken full advantage of internet. The funny thing is today if you refinance the same house with same lender still you need to ponder a lot money for same title with the same lender – but why ? where is the work that involved that much money to submit after all refinance with in the same lender with same data.[/quote]

Sorry but I got to break my own rule and respond to this one. In one breathe we’ll talk about how this is the biggest transaction of our lives and how can people be so stupid/uninformed. Then in the next breathe comment that “Just open the lock and tour the house and throw the 14 pages offer after we signed”. You are not buying a loaf of bread. These can be very complex transactions. It is impossible to appreciate this unless you have been involved with dozens of them over many years. Are some of them simple? Absolutely though I havent seen a simple one in a couple years. You just dont know what is coming down the pike until you are knee deep in it.

Last year I took some listings up in the Temecula area. I wont take them anymore because the calibur of agent up there has been abysmal from my experience. I know they must exist but I have yet to meet a competent agent in that market. Frankly I dont understand how houses get sold up there when no one knows what they are doing. Extrapolating that to consumers handling their own transactions is even worse. Call me crazy but I dont see that as a viable answer.[/quote]

Well if real internet advantage had been taken then whatever amount of contributions you rendered in that Temecula area would have been streamlined by internet too – and then everyone get the same choice to know the facts. When first internet sales started it wasn’t made firm rules but now everything through internet you can get. Now “there are rules”, “there are voices” and reviews. I can gurantee no one can run or escape when everything exposed to everybody. I am not saying to eliminate realtor but saying stream line many things via a correct process including realtors are part of it and also that has some embedded rules then you see how easy those sales and as well those refinancing of mortgage. Sure it is going to be easy to know the facts on the listed houses instead lingering on various databanks to seek and knock. I assume with the vested interests only this housing is not really standardized with internet standards – though there are fair amount of chances exist.

[Author]

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