The Illegal Immigration Factor

[Carlsbadliving]

I think it’s just a sign of the times. More illegals here in the country and they’ve taken many of those jobs away from the middle class kids. But how is the government going to provide incentives to hire them?

Part of the problem is the motivation factor. Put yourself in a managers shoes. Are you going to hire some 18 yr kid who needs some extra spending money and can’t wait to get off work to go party or are you going to hire the immigrant who is trying to support his family. Who do you think will show up on time everyday ready to work hard for you. I’ve been in those shoes and I’d hire that immigrant 90% of the time.

[anxvariety]

Yeah, middle class kid motivation is a big one.. and that’s a really scary problem.. I think america has a gigantic problem with alcohol and that partying you’re talking about.. especially with the generation I’m in.. people that are 22-30 right now. I have so few friends that care about anything other than their next paycheck, or how drunk they got last weekend, that I wonder who’s going to be filling all the skilled /education required jobs! I blame some of it on MTV – they sell a ”whatevvverrr” type attitude/perspective to kids.. where it’s ‘cool’ not to care about stuff…

[PerryChase]

Taiwanese are certainly not illegal immigrants — especially the ones who live in Irvine. The Taiwanese I know buy homes for their children to live in while they go to high-school (university-high) and college in California. They can afford (make sacrifices) for their children to get a good education.

It’s perfectly legal to buy a home in USA even if you’re not a permanent resident. For school, you just need to get a student visa. As long as you can pay the tuition, you can stay and study in America.

My guess is that immigrants, legal and otherwise, contribute a lot to escalating home prices. A good example is Miami where well-to-do latinos buy homes to shelter their money. San Diego has plenty of part-time Mexicans who own homes here. Without Mexican money (legal and illegal), San Diego would not be what it is today.

I feel this whole issue of immigration and English is such a red-herring. Rather than being afraid if immigrants, we should embrace them for enriching our culture.

[powayseller]

We do NOT have stringent inspectors. The SD County building inspector missed that my roofer did not put in the attic vents; the realty home inspector caught that at time of sale. They replied in a letter that they don’t catch everything…

My friend hired his own crew to build his house, and I was stunned at the low quality of the wood used in framing. The boards were warped, split, and not going all the way down to the floor. Some cuts were uneven, which probably doesn’t matter for structural stability, but it goes to the quality of the work. He used a teen crew to lay marble flooring, and the new marble guy ripped some out and redid it. His house is in Ramona.

I do *not* believe the construction is decent from someone who is only paid $8/hour, and is not trained. I respect the skilled tradesmen too much, to think that someone can just come along and just pick this stuff up. It takes many years to become a real craftsman. I interacted enough with my subs to have respect for them, and to know the difference between some who were just workers and those who were real craftsmen. A professional builder can command a living wage. Those building for $8/hour are most likely amateurs. I would *not* hire them to build my house. Anybody thinking that you can just pick up a crew and have them build while you supervise, I saw the bad outcome in my Ramona friend’s house. You pay cheap, you get low quality.

Check out the Lennar problems in FL. If you’ve followed the Bubble Blogger links, you’ve already read this from globaleconomicanalysis.com. Lennar hired their own inspectors, and the result: hundreds of building code violations and a class action lawsuit in the works. Also read this about Lennar’s shoddy construction.

Lennar probably hired these $8/hour guys, and I bet we will see more lawsuits like this. They cut corners, didn’t train and apprentice these guys as they should have.

[sakina96]

Powayseller,

“About the illegals, I think it is a humanitarian abuse to take their SS taxes, and not guarantee them a SS payout at retirement. What will they do at age 65? ”

“Our government is knowingly taking advantage of poor people with little prospects”

You have absolutely got to be kidding! Anyone who makes the conscious decision to enter this country and live here illegally has to know that they are not entitled to the rights and priveledges afforded to American citizens and legal immigrants. Surely they are entitled to basic human rights and other basic protections under the law. I cannot see how SS falls into this category in any way. To characterize illegal immigrants as innocent, downtrodden members of society of whom the govenment and business establishment are taking advantage is inaccurate. Illegal immigrants also knowingly take advantage of the American govenment and its citizens on a daily basis though use of our schools, hospitals and other public resources.

[rankandfile]

I agree that Bugs has reason, but I disagree that they’ll just pack up and go once the boom is over. It is well known that many of them are here to raise a family and have a child that is an American citizen. Considering the $hithole that is called Mexico, can you blame them? Another example that goes on everyday is the pregnant lady who comes across the border just to give birth. They KNOW that the hospitals here will not and cannot turn them away. Once born they are American citizens. This is how the whole anchor baby process begins.

As far as Bush not doing anything, I agree with Powayseller. I actually voted and helped campaign for Bush back in ’04. I feel betrayed by his administration’s immigration policies (or lack of policies). The Republican party’s logic behind allowing illegals in is that they (along with the Democrats) are fighting for a huge block of potential voters 20 years or more from now. They are investing in their future.

What rouses my ire most is how turning a blind eye to illegal immigration slaps the faces of all those who came here the right way.

In terms of real estate and housing, these people are going to need a place to live at some point. I think that it’s as simple as more people = more demand, and more jobs for those in the real estate biz. I’d be interested to see if any of the various real estate industries (NAR, developers, construction, mortgage banking, etc.) have helped fund pro-illegal immigration groups or activities. Follow the money trail.

[LookoutBelow]

The problem will correct itself, when the economy slows down….Wayyyy down and those jobs become sought after again. It wont be rosy forever.

[anxvariety]

sakina96,

Some/most illegal immigrants will argue that they are the ones being taken advantage of.. I sort of agree, but I doubt they would agree with my proposition to fix the problem!

Personally I don’t agree with using things in ways different than they were intended.. Allowing illegal citizens access to the systems that are designed for citizens(SS, healthcare, welfare) is a problem that will poke it’s head out later when it’s more expensive and difficult to fix.. aka the elite have run off with all the money

In my opinion this is an integrity problem that exists in the DNA of all politicians(joke?). The systems you and I pay taxes into are working overtime to keep the raft afloat even though it’s got holes everywhere.. I’d bet everything I have that someone on the high-up(cheap labor?) is benefiting most from this – because no way in America does the lowest class get anything for free!!

Warning I have no idea what I’m talking about.. I guess this should go at the beggining?? 🙂

[contentrenter]

Kudos to everyone! You’re all restoring my faith.

The posts in this thread show that you can be (1) fiscally aware and even (2) fiscally conservative while being (c) compassionate, and aware that most of those here illegally are simply trying to achieve what we all want — some financial security for their families.

[rankandfile]

It’s not about not embracing illegals and accepting their differences in culture. It’s more a matter of principle about coming here under the radar and exploiting the altruism of our society. Illegals are fully aware that they can come here, have a baby for free that can then be used as a reason to bring more family members in from Mexico. Once here, they are fully aware of the various medical, educational, and other programs that are available that they can exploit. A perfect example are programs such as affirmative action that give preference to someone that is of a non-white nationality. You think they do not know about this?! This is the type of stuff they tell their fellow countrypeople in Mexico who hate their own country! “Come to America. You get free healtcare, a free education, and when your kid goes to college or applies for a job, they’ll get preferential treatment because they are a minority!” The funny thing is that Latinos are actually the majority, not the minority, in many SoCal cities (ex. Los Angeles).

Of course not all immigrants think this way. Many come here and play by the rules. I personally think that the net effect on home prices, 20-30 years from now, will be negative. We are already experiencing a decline in the aging infrastructure in many SoCal cities. Just drive through some cities and you’ll think you’re in Tijuana.

Many legal immigrants who came here legally are pissed as well. They say that they came here to get away from a hole like Mexico. Now they are bringing Mexico to America.

[Beach Rat]

What it comes down to is that we are going to try to punish people in order to make America look less attractive? Short of cutting off peoples feet for running across the border this isn’t going to work. The punishments only work if the illegals get caught. Then what? They face deportation and make another go at it. Build all the walls you want it isn’t going to fix the problem, it may slow the leak. Even without construction there are plenty of jobs. Farming, gardening, cleaning, family run restaurants, drugs… . has anyone asked for their maids/gardeners SS card? The fix for the problem is to “Fix” Mexico. As long as a huge difference exists between the two, any barrier legal or physical will be over come. Maybe after we are done in Iraq we can start making Mexico a better place. Then once TJ is as nice as SD or SD is as bad as TJ we won’t have an immigration problem.

If there is a recession caused by the housing industry I doubt that anyone with enough money to afford a house with a lawn in San Diego will be so strapped for cash as to fire their gardener and do their own yard work. Will there be some job losses yes, but people legal or not will find something else to do.

[Carlsbadliving]

Powayseller,

I don’t think you can generalize that we don’t have good inspectors because a single vent was missed in your attic. As I said earlier, $8/hr will get you a laborer that can dig, cleanup, move lumber, etc. $12-14/hr will get you a production framer. I’m not talking about workers to do some work on an individual house, or guys that you might pick up on a street corner. I’m talking about large developments built by large builders. They have production framing crews that do the same work on each tract home. It’s the equivalent to the assembly line. They are trained, fast, and efficient. They are supervised by a skilled supervisor and their work is inspected by the City/County. Many of them have 10+ years of experience here and in Mexico. The majority of them know what they are doing.

As for your friend in Ramona. Obviously if you’re going to hire a crew to build your own house, you might want some recommendations or maybe check a reference or two.

As for the builders hiring their own inspectors in Florida: apparently Florida law allows that. I’m unaware of a similar law in Calif.

[blahblahblah]

I was talking to a friend that works in INS. He told me that INS has collected a huge list of SSNs that are being used illegally, and that the INS has presented this list to both the SSA and IRS with a request that these numbers be closed and no longer used for collection of revenue or payroll taxes. Now here’s the kicker — the IRS and SSA KNOW that these numbers are illegal but they refuse to close them because the money contributed into these accounts is essentially providing a huge free revenue stream for the US government! Meaning they know they’ll never pay out on it, so why not just accept it? Apparently the INS is pretty angry about this. Ain’t government wonderful!

[North County Jim]

If there is a recession caused by the housing industry I doubt that anyone with enough money to afford a house with a lawn in San Diego will be so strapped for cash as to fire their gardener and do their own yard work.

I must beg to differ Beach Rat. With ARM resets, foolish HELOCs used to fund prior consumption and income reduction ahead for many in housing-related employment, we’re most likely looking at a significant number of people in some sort of financial distress.

Should that occur, won’t a lot of people cut expenses to the bone in order to survive the storm? If I were in that situation, the gardener would be one of the first to go.

I’ve seen evidence of this already. My neighbor, who is in construction, recently stopped using outside gardening services. As an aside, he also mentioned that the atmosphere on job sites has gotten noticeably chillier.

While getting my hair cut the other day, the woman cutting my hair remarked about how she’s cut back on expenses as a result of gas prices. These cutbacks include gardening, maids, satellite, etc. She claims that she and her husband have cut nearly $600 in monthly expenses.

Unnecessary expenses are always the first to be cut when times get tough.

[lindismith]

CONCHO, did your source have any idea what the value of that revenue is per year? It’s got to be HUGE!

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