The end of the world (or at least the US middle class) as we know it….

[peterb]

Bottom line is that home equity played a big part in the illusion of wealth in America. I think that was the last illusion available. So now it’s all reality based living. Pay check to pay check for many people. And oh, that pay check aint enough. But pay attention as deflation hits. If demand destruction is bringing down oil, it can bring a lot of things down.

[peterb]

Bottom line is that home equity played a big part in the illusion of wealth in America. I think that was the last illusion available. So now it’s all reality based living. Pay check to pay check for many people. And oh, that pay check aint enough. But pay attention as deflation hits. If demand destruction is bringing down oil, it can bring a lot of things down.

[Aecetia]

The fact that health care is putting a huge dent in so many wallets, increased taxes (progressive or not), child care (if applicable) etc. were all part of the discussion. I think the cost of housing and health care examples were at least worth listening to. The illusion of wealth is now the delusion of wealth.

[Aecetia]

The fact that health care is putting a huge dent in so many wallets, increased taxes (progressive or not), child care (if applicable) etc. were all part of the discussion. I think the cost of housing and health care examples were at least worth listening to. The illusion of wealth is now the delusion of wealth.

[Aecetia]

The fact that health care is putting a huge dent in so many wallets, increased taxes (progressive or not), child care (if applicable) etc. were all part of the discussion. I think the cost of housing and health care examples were at least worth listening to. The illusion of wealth is now the delusion of wealth.

[Aecetia]

The fact that health care is putting a huge dent in so many wallets, increased taxes (progressive or not), child care (if applicable) etc. were all part of the discussion. I think the cost of housing and health care examples were at least worth listening to. The illusion of wealth is now the delusion of wealth.

[Aecetia]

The fact that health care is putting a huge dent in so many wallets, increased taxes (progressive or not), child care (if applicable) etc. were all part of the discussion. I think the cost of housing and health care examples were at least worth listening to. The illusion of wealth is now the delusion of wealth.

[bjensen]

I have spent years in Brazil, and assure you, we do not want to be their demographic twin. If you join the upper class, you better bulletproof your car. If you join the lower class, prepare for poverty and violence.

I would like to think that Americans would revolt before it got to that point.

As a younger poster than most of this board, I feel like I have a somewhat unique perspective.

I think the current paradigm that education equals success works great. It is great for lowering unemployment numbers as it reduces the total workforce. It also works great for private companies who saddle students with debts that cannot be discharged. It doesn’t work so well for the students who incur huge debts to attend only to enter a job market that pays less and less each year. (Education bubble?)

I read recently that census data showed that the only educational class who saw increased earnings adjusted for inflation between 200-2007 were the professional class (Doctors/Lawyers). As some may remember, I actually solicited advice from this forum about attending law school, and am currently in the process of applying. However, through my own research, I have found that the increased earnings among lawyers have by no means been distributed evenly.

Young lawyers out of the top 14 or so schools have a great chance of paying down their loans and securing a spot in the upper middle class. The lawyers graduating from the top 50 schools have a decent chance at a middle class lifestyle. 50-100 are kind of a crap shoot. The bottom 100 schools have many graduates working as temps making barely enough to pay their school loan payments. And above and beyond this, the bar association just drafted an opinion that legal work can be outsourced to places like India, no bar passage necessary. Even a school in China is seeking American Bar Association approval.

If a country run by lawyers won’t even seek to protect their own profession/industry, can you expect them to protect any others?

I spend far to much time explaining to in-laws and my own parents that my college education is worth what their high school education was when they bought their first homes at 20-23 years of age. When I told him I was going to law school, my father in law asked me why I didn’t just get a good job and support my family. It’s difficult to explain why that’s IMPOSSIBLE to do so and live a middle class lifestyle on one income with just a bachelors degree, when he did it with a high school education just a few short decades ago.

It seems everyone thinks that everyone else is making more money than they are. Well go to http://www.glassdoor.com . It may shock you to see how low incomes really are.

I have many friends and family around the same age as myself. We were all educated at Top 100 universities like Wake Forest, BYU, KU, UCI, etc. some of us already have advance degrees. We studied diverse subjects including communications, education, business, psychology, economics among others, and we are ALL struggling financially. None of us own homes.

This has turned into quite the rant. I don’t look to complain. I am working on acceptance into a top law school. I will get where I want to go. I just want to add some of my observations from on the ground.

This is THE issue that will determine who I vote for this election cycle.

[bjensen]

I have spent years in Brazil, and assure you, we do not want to be their demographic twin. If you join the upper class, you better bulletproof your car. If you join the lower class, prepare for poverty and violence.

I would like to think that Americans would revolt before it got to that point.

As a younger poster than most of this board, I feel like I have a somewhat unique perspective.

I think the current paradigm that education equals success works great. It is great for lowering unemployment numbers as it reduces the total workforce. It also works great for private companies who saddle students with debts that cannot be discharged. It doesn’t work so well for the students who incur huge debts to attend only to enter a job market that pays less and less each year. (Education bubble?)

I read recently that census data showed that the only educational class who saw increased earnings adjusted for inflation between 200-2007 were the professional class (Doctors/Lawyers). As some may remember, I actually solicited advice from this forum about attending law school, and am currently in the process of applying. However, through my own research, I have found that the increased earnings among lawyers have by no means been distributed evenly.

Young lawyers out of the top 14 or so schools have a great chance of paying down their loans and securing a spot in the upper middle class. The lawyers graduating from the top 50 schools have a decent chance at a middle class lifestyle. 50-100 are kind of a crap shoot. The bottom 100 schools have many graduates working as temps making barely enough to pay their school loan payments. And above and beyond this, the bar association just drafted an opinion that legal work can be outsourced to places like India, no bar passage necessary. Even a school in China is seeking American Bar Association approval.

If a country run by lawyers won’t even seek to protect their own profession/industry, can you expect them to protect any others?

I spend far to much time explaining to in-laws and my own parents that my college education is worth what their high school education was when they bought their first homes at 20-23 years of age. When I told him I was going to law school, my father in law asked me why I didn’t just get a good job and support my family. It’s difficult to explain why that’s IMPOSSIBLE to do so and live a middle class lifestyle on one income with just a bachelors degree, when he did it with a high school education just a few short decades ago.

It seems everyone thinks that everyone else is making more money than they are. Well go to http://www.glassdoor.com . It may shock you to see how low incomes really are.

I have many friends and family around the same age as myself. We were all educated at Top 100 universities like Wake Forest, BYU, KU, UCI, etc. some of us already have advance degrees. We studied diverse subjects including communications, education, business, psychology, economics among others, and we are ALL struggling financially. None of us own homes.

This has turned into quite the rant. I don’t look to complain. I am working on acceptance into a top law school. I will get where I want to go. I just want to add some of my observations from on the ground.

This is THE issue that will determine who I vote for this election cycle.

[bjensen]

I have spent years in Brazil, and assure you, we do not want to be their demographic twin. If you join the upper class, you better bulletproof your car. If you join the lower class, prepare for poverty and violence.

I would like to think that Americans would revolt before it got to that point.

As a younger poster than most of this board, I feel like I have a somewhat unique perspective.

I think the current paradigm that education equals success works great. It is great for lowering unemployment numbers as it reduces the total workforce. It also works great for private companies who saddle students with debts that cannot be discharged. It doesn’t work so well for the students who incur huge debts to attend only to enter a job market that pays less and less each year. (Education bubble?)

I read recently that census data showed that the only educational class who saw increased earnings adjusted for inflation between 200-2007 were the professional class (Doctors/Lawyers). As some may remember, I actually solicited advice from this forum about attending law school, and am currently in the process of applying. However, through my own research, I have found that the increased earnings among lawyers have by no means been distributed evenly.

Young lawyers out of the top 14 or so schools have a great chance of paying down their loans and securing a spot in the upper middle class. The lawyers graduating from the top 50 schools have a decent chance at a middle class lifestyle. 50-100 are kind of a crap shoot. The bottom 100 schools have many graduates working as temps making barely enough to pay their school loan payments. And above and beyond this, the bar association just drafted an opinion that legal work can be outsourced to places like India, no bar passage necessary. Even a school in China is seeking American Bar Association approval.

If a country run by lawyers won’t even seek to protect their own profession/industry, can you expect them to protect any others?

I spend far to much time explaining to in-laws and my own parents that my college education is worth what their high school education was when they bought their first homes at 20-23 years of age. When I told him I was going to law school, my father in law asked me why I didn’t just get a good job and support my family. It’s difficult to explain why that’s IMPOSSIBLE to do so and live a middle class lifestyle on one income with just a bachelors degree, when he did it with a high school education just a few short decades ago.

It seems everyone thinks that everyone else is making more money than they are. Well go to http://www.glassdoor.com . It may shock you to see how low incomes really are.

I have many friends and family around the same age as myself. We were all educated at Top 100 universities like Wake Forest, BYU, KU, UCI, etc. some of us already have advance degrees. We studied diverse subjects including communications, education, business, psychology, economics among others, and we are ALL struggling financially. None of us own homes.

This has turned into quite the rant. I don’t look to complain. I am working on acceptance into a top law school. I will get where I want to go. I just want to add some of my observations from on the ground.

This is THE issue that will determine who I vote for this election cycle.

[bjensen]

I have spent years in Brazil, and assure you, we do not want to be their demographic twin. If you join the upper class, you better bulletproof your car. If you join the lower class, prepare for poverty and violence.

I would like to think that Americans would revolt before it got to that point.

As a younger poster than most of this board, I feel like I have a somewhat unique perspective.

I think the current paradigm that education equals success works great. It is great for lowering unemployment numbers as it reduces the total workforce. It also works great for private companies who saddle students with debts that cannot be discharged. It doesn’t work so well for the students who incur huge debts to attend only to enter a job market that pays less and less each year. (Education bubble?)

I read recently that census data showed that the only educational class who saw increased earnings adjusted for inflation between 200-2007 were the professional class (Doctors/Lawyers). As some may remember, I actually solicited advice from this forum about attending law school, and am currently in the process of applying. However, through my own research, I have found that the increased earnings among lawyers have by no means been distributed evenly.

Young lawyers out of the top 14 or so schools have a great chance of paying down their loans and securing a spot in the upper middle class. The lawyers graduating from the top 50 schools have a decent chance at a middle class lifestyle. 50-100 are kind of a crap shoot. The bottom 100 schools have many graduates working as temps making barely enough to pay their school loan payments. And above and beyond this, the bar association just drafted an opinion that legal work can be outsourced to places like India, no bar passage necessary. Even a school in China is seeking American Bar Association approval.

If a country run by lawyers won’t even seek to protect their own profession/industry, can you expect them to protect any others?

I spend far to much time explaining to in-laws and my own parents that my college education is worth what their high school education was when they bought their first homes at 20-23 years of age. When I told him I was going to law school, my father in law asked me why I didn’t just get a good job and support my family. It’s difficult to explain why that’s IMPOSSIBLE to do so and live a middle class lifestyle on one income with just a bachelors degree, when he did it with a high school education just a few short decades ago.

It seems everyone thinks that everyone else is making more money than they are. Well go to http://www.glassdoor.com . It may shock you to see how low incomes really are.

I have many friends and family around the same age as myself. We were all educated at Top 100 universities like Wake Forest, BYU, KU, UCI, etc. some of us already have advance degrees. We studied diverse subjects including communications, education, business, psychology, economics among others, and we are ALL struggling financially. None of us own homes.

This has turned into quite the rant. I don’t look to complain. I am working on acceptance into a top law school. I will get where I want to go. I just want to add some of my observations from on the ground.

This is THE issue that will determine who I vote for this election cycle.

[bjensen]

I have spent years in Brazil, and assure you, we do not want to be their demographic twin. If you join the upper class, you better bulletproof your car. If you join the lower class, prepare for poverty and violence.

I would like to think that Americans would revolt before it got to that point.

As a younger poster than most of this board, I feel like I have a somewhat unique perspective.

I think the current paradigm that education equals success works great. It is great for lowering unemployment numbers as it reduces the total workforce. It also works great for private companies who saddle students with debts that cannot be discharged. It doesn’t work so well for the students who incur huge debts to attend only to enter a job market that pays less and less each year. (Education bubble?)

I read recently that census data showed that the only educational class who saw increased earnings adjusted for inflation between 200-2007 were the professional class (Doctors/Lawyers). As some may remember, I actually solicited advice from this forum about attending law school, and am currently in the process of applying. However, through my own research, I have found that the increased earnings among lawyers have by no means been distributed evenly.

Young lawyers out of the top 14 or so schools have a great chance of paying down their loans and securing a spot in the upper middle class. The lawyers graduating from the top 50 schools have a decent chance at a middle class lifestyle. 50-100 are kind of a crap shoot. The bottom 100 schools have many graduates working as temps making barely enough to pay their school loan payments. And above and beyond this, the bar association just drafted an opinion that legal work can be outsourced to places like India, no bar passage necessary. Even a school in China is seeking American Bar Association approval.

If a country run by lawyers won’t even seek to protect their own profession/industry, can you expect them to protect any others?

I spend far to much time explaining to in-laws and my own parents that my college education is worth what their high school education was when they bought their first homes at 20-23 years of age. When I told him I was going to law school, my father in law asked me why I didn’t just get a good job and support my family. It’s difficult to explain why that’s IMPOSSIBLE to do so and live a middle class lifestyle on one income with just a bachelors degree, when he did it with a high school education just a few short decades ago.

It seems everyone thinks that everyone else is making more money than they are. Well go to http://www.glassdoor.com . It may shock you to see how low incomes really are.

I have many friends and family around the same age as myself. We were all educated at Top 100 universities like Wake Forest, BYU, KU, UCI, etc. some of us already have advance degrees. We studied diverse subjects including communications, education, business, psychology, economics among others, and we are ALL struggling financially. None of us own homes.

This has turned into quite the rant. I don’t look to complain. I am working on acceptance into a top law school. I will get where I want to go. I just want to add some of my observations from on the ground.

This is THE issue that will determine who I vote for this election cycle.

[DWCAP]

bjenson,

Some interesting points. I tend to agree with some of it, namly that a BS is not what it use to be. The push to get everyone into college has led to a college education not being worth as much. I have only 1 friend without a BS, and he has an AA and 9 years navy, AND is working on his BS. If everyone applying for a job has a college education, does it really give you an advantage anymore? I would agree that an MS is the old BS.

As for not being able to make it as a late 20’s professional; I disagree. I have numerous friends who are doing very well, and some who even own their own homes. None are in California. I mean that litterally, NONE of the obviously successful ones are in CA, but they are doing very well in Las Vegas, Texas, Baltimore, New Jersey,the Twin Cities, Chicago, and a few other cities. The ones who have stayed in CA are either obviously trying to save money and skimping on everything dreaming of massive depreciation, or spending like pimps but have nothing of any real value.

Plus I kinda think the definition of middle class has changed alot since your inlaws were young. European vacations were something to enjoy as a reward at the beginning of retirment, not a high school graduation gift. Vacations were camping, or going to visit Uncle Joe at his house, or a day at the beach and a BBQ. Purses never were worth more than the money found inside them, and a Cadalliac was something you rewarded yourself with at age 50, not a BMW at age 30. People had a TV per house, not a room per TV.

I guess my point is that the trappings of the middle class have changed. I once had a co-worker 6 months out of college tell me difinitivly that anything less than 100K PER Person (ie 200K per couple) was the MINIMUM you needed to make to be OK. Her dad was a plumber, her mom a teacher before she had kids. She was not born into wealth, but she sure had the idea that anything less than name brand and 4 star was sluming it.

[DWCAP]

bjenson,

Some interesting points. I tend to agree with some of it, namly that a BS is not what it use to be. The push to get everyone into college has led to a college education not being worth as much. I have only 1 friend without a BS, and he has an AA and 9 years navy, AND is working on his BS. If everyone applying for a job has a college education, does it really give you an advantage anymore? I would agree that an MS is the old BS.

As for not being able to make it as a late 20’s professional; I disagree. I have numerous friends who are doing very well, and some who even own their own homes. None are in California. I mean that litterally, NONE of the obviously successful ones are in CA, but they are doing very well in Las Vegas, Texas, Baltimore, New Jersey,the Twin Cities, Chicago, and a few other cities. The ones who have stayed in CA are either obviously trying to save money and skimping on everything dreaming of massive depreciation, or spending like pimps but have nothing of any real value.

Plus I kinda think the definition of middle class has changed alot since your inlaws were young. European vacations were something to enjoy as a reward at the beginning of retirment, not a high school graduation gift. Vacations were camping, or going to visit Uncle Joe at his house, or a day at the beach and a BBQ. Purses never were worth more than the money found inside them, and a Cadalliac was something you rewarded yourself with at age 50, not a BMW at age 30. People had a TV per house, not a room per TV.

I guess my point is that the trappings of the middle class have changed. I once had a co-worker 6 months out of college tell me difinitivly that anything less than 100K PER Person (ie 200K per couple) was the MINIMUM you needed to make to be OK. Her dad was a plumber, her mom a teacher before she had kids. She was not born into wealth, but she sure had the idea that anything less than name brand and 4 star was sluming it.

[DWCAP]

bjenson,

Some interesting points. I tend to agree with some of it, namly that a BS is not what it use to be. The push to get everyone into college has led to a college education not being worth as much. I have only 1 friend without a BS, and he has an AA and 9 years navy, AND is working on his BS. If everyone applying for a job has a college education, does it really give you an advantage anymore? I would agree that an MS is the old BS.

As for not being able to make it as a late 20’s professional; I disagree. I have numerous friends who are doing very well, and some who even own their own homes. None are in California. I mean that litterally, NONE of the obviously successful ones are in CA, but they are doing very well in Las Vegas, Texas, Baltimore, New Jersey,the Twin Cities, Chicago, and a few other cities. The ones who have stayed in CA are either obviously trying to save money and skimping on everything dreaming of massive depreciation, or spending like pimps but have nothing of any real value.

Plus I kinda think the definition of middle class has changed alot since your inlaws were young. European vacations were something to enjoy as a reward at the beginning of retirment, not a high school graduation gift. Vacations were camping, or going to visit Uncle Joe at his house, or a day at the beach and a BBQ. Purses never were worth more than the money found inside them, and a Cadalliac was something you rewarded yourself with at age 50, not a BMW at age 30. People had a TV per house, not a room per TV.

I guess my point is that the trappings of the middle class have changed. I once had a co-worker 6 months out of college tell me difinitivly that anything less than 100K PER Person (ie 200K per couple) was the MINIMUM you needed to make to be OK. Her dad was a plumber, her mom a teacher before she had kids. She was not born into wealth, but she sure had the idea that anything less than name brand and 4 star was sluming it.

[Author]

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