So I bought in DC.

[CA renter]

Awesome news, patb!!! 🙂

Congratulations on your new home!

May you have many, many years of happy memories there. You’ve waited a long time for this.

[Akula1992]

Patb,

Glad to hear that everything worked out well for you. My wife and I recently moved from SD to DC and our experience in buying a home here has been horrible. Permit me to share, if you will.

We started looking for a house in the middle of the summer. After many weeks of looking at houses that didn’t meet our list of desires we changed realtors. The new realtor was great and listened to what we wanted and really worked hard for us. That was the good news.

So we finally find a house in a great location, good schools, good commute, regular sale, etc, etc. I will call this house “A”. Put an offer in on the house, do a little negotiating and have a ratified contract. 2 days before closing my wife discovers a significant defect in the contract (County records are different from what the house was being sold as). Our realtor contact the listing agent(who is also the owner of the property) to work out the problem. The seller is in possession of records (septic cert) showing the discrepancy but refuses to submit them to the title company. Those records are required to be able to proceed to settlement. We agree to give the seller time to remedy the problem and extend the closing date approximately a week to expire at 1200 on the designated day. We have a second house, House “B”, in hot standby in case the contract falls through on house “A”. Noontime comes and goes on the second closing day and we can’t get a reply from the seller of house “A”. He finally responds late in the afternoon saying that he refuses our offer and declares the contract null and void. (Which he cannot do. There is a bunch more to this story and could be a stand alone post but I want to get to the rest of the houses)

We scramble to get the offer in on house “B” because we know there is another offer on that house. The seller agent knows the offer in coming in but decides to only submit the other(lower) offer to the sellers and go to bed early that night. In the absence of any other offer, the sellers take the lower offer. Our offer is never submitted to the sellers. SO the delay on the part of the seller/agent on house “A” causes our offer on house “B” to be delayed. Couple that with the professional negligence of the seller agent and we lose house “B” as well.

Next up is house “C”. Despite being on the market for a looooong time, we decide to put in an offer on it. As if by magic, this house becomes a hot property as soon as we show interest. There are 3 interested parties of which we are one. The first offer is a bit lower than asking price. We submit an offer that is over asking price because, at this point, we just want a dang house. Unbeknownst to us, the seller agent from house “B” knows the seller agent from house “C” and secretly tells her that we were really late in submitting an offer on house “B” and that she probably doesn’t want to deal with us. Really? Anyway, the seller agent on house “C” only submits the first offer to the seller ignoring the two higher offers from us and the other party. We lose house “C”.

On to house “D”. We put in an offer on this place and it looks like it might go through. One sticking point is that the sellers keep insisting that the house is being sold “as is”. Sorry there fella, but the VA does not do “as is”, my loan is a VA loan and the contract is contingent on the VA funding the loan. If you don’t like it you can put your house back on the market – hey, it’s only been an active listing for a little over 1000 days… your choice.

As it stands right now I think I have seen just about every breach of professional conduct that I ever wish to see from realtors. How hard can this be? You have a house you want to sell. I have a pile of money and funding to buy the dang thing. Let’s get the deal done. It almost seems that people are deliberately trying to make this as difficult and painful as possible. If house “D” falls through I think I will go back to renting.

[bearishgurl]

Akula, I have a few questions for you.

Why did your first agent show you a bunch of properties you were not interested in? In this day and age, we have the internet with multiple color photos. Why didn’t you just TELL HER which properties you were interested in seeing in person and ask her to check first if the seller would accept VA financing?

You state here that you have been making VA offers. Are you submitting them with an earnest money check? Do your offers specify you are putting down a percentage of the purchase price or borrowing 100% of it? Do your offers specify the seller assist with your closing costs?

What is your price range? In the four offers you made, were they all in the same immediate area/zip code? This would explain the “cronyism” among local agents you describe here.

From your post, I’m unclear why seller “A” would not register and file his/her “septic cert” if that’s all it took to fix the title and issue title ins to you. (I am aware this also has to be done in several counties in the state of CO.)

If you are currently active-duty military, isn’t there an abundance of military housing there to choose from?

And, just out of curiosity, how far of a daily commute would you and/or your spouse (if applic) have to make from the houses you placed offers on and lost? Were there any closer-in more desirable places you liked better? Or was the fact you were using VA financing hampering your choices of area and sellers?

The reason I asked you the last group of questions is because a buyer using VA financing would not have as large of a choice of properties, sellers and/or areas to choose from in SD County, CA, as would conventional buyers making offers indicating they were putting down a 20% downpayment. In other words, using VA financing could prove to be a detriment when making offers in the more desirable areas.

What I’m trying to state here is that a VA offer is not considered as strong of an offer as a conventional offer, even if both buyers are “pre-approved” for a mtg. If you HAVE a 20% downpayment, why not use conventional financing (which has far less closing costs than VA financing)? It’s also far less headache for the seller. This would strengthen your position and give you more housing choices.

Just because you have a Certificate of Eligibility from the VA doesn’t mean it is the best financing to use. It all depends on WHERE you are buying and HOW LONG you plan on owning the property.

[Akula1992]

[quote=bearishgurl]Akula, I have a few questions for you.

Why did your first agent show you a bunch of properties you were not interested in? In this day and age, we have the internet with multiple color photos. Why didn’t you just TELL HER which properties you were interested in seeing in person and ask her to check first if the seller would accept VA financing?[/quote]

Fair question. She was trying to find us what we were looking for and we did spend a lot of time looking online prior to going out and looking at houses in person. Truthfully, it is difficult to get the flavor of a house from just the pictures and sometimes houses 10 feet from the next house and you could not tell that from the pictures. Often, it was what the pictures did not show that was a dealbreaker. Usually when we went to a house it was the first time that the agent had seen the house so she was unable to give us anything other than what we had already seen online.

[quote]You state here that you have been making VA offers. Are you submitting them with an earnest money check? Do your offers specify you are putting down a percentage of the purchase price or borrowing 100% of it? Do your offers specify the seller assist with your closing costs?[/quote]

I don’t think we ever stated explicitly that they were VA offers, at least in the initial stages. We really don’t need to use a VA loan and have been playing around with the numbers. Depending on the length of time we plan to stay there it can be a slight advantage or a wash. Every offer was submitted with an earnest money check for 5K. We will be putting down between 5-10% in cash. We could do more but based on the number soup of VA vs non-VA, Mortgage insurance vs. no PMI, PITI calcs, points etc. it doesn’t do us a lot of good to go the full 20%. We have asked for closing assistance on the first offer but we have been turned down every single time. No biggie as it is not a dealbreaker for us.

[quote]What is your price range? In the four offers you made, were they all in the same immediate area/zip code? This would explain the “cronyism” among local agents you describe here.[/quote]

We wanted under 600K but have gone up a little over 700K to get what we want. Not all in the same ZIP but close. We are looking in Fairfax/Mantua area.

[quote]From your post, I’m unclear why seller “A” would not register and file his/her “septic cert” if that’s all it took to fix the title and issue title ins to you. (I am aware this also has to be done in several counties in the state of CO.)[/quote]

He listed the house for sale as a four bedroom. It was registered with the county as a septic system supporting a 3 bedroom. The septic cert reflected it as being a 3 bedroom. I can only guess that he did not want to submit the official paperwork that might prove that he had misrepresented the house. He has never submitted the paperwork and has been in breach of contract since the second closing date because of that. I am in possession of numerous e-mails advising him that he needed to submit the paperwork and also have a copy of the paperwork that was sent to him from the county. I think he just wanted us to break the contract of our own volition, forfeit the earnest money and allow him to sell the house to someone else for more money.

[quote]If you are currently active-duty military, isn’t there an abundance of military housing there to choose from?[/quote]

Yes, I am active duty but no, there is a limited amount of housing available. For my rank the wait for available housing is over 2 years. Also, I plan to retire at the end of the tour so we wanted to buy a house and put down roots.

[quote]And, just out of curiosity, how far of a daily commute would you and/or your spouse (if applic) have to make from the houses you placed offers on and lost? Were there any closer-in more desirable places you liked better? Or was the fact you were using VA financing hampering your choices of area and sellers?[/quote]

Daily commute would be about 35 minutes if there are no accidents/road closures, etc. This area balances our desires the best: Great schools(Woodson school pyramid), Great neighborhood, access to 495, commute distance, distance to Ft. Belvoir among others. I don’t think VA financing has been an impediment to our search.

[quote]The reason I asked you the last group of questions is because a buyer using VA financing would not have as large of a choice of properties, sellers and/or areas to choose from in SD County, CA, as would conventional buyers making offers indicating they were putting down a 20% downpayment. In other words, using VA financing could prove to be a detriment when making offers in the more desirable areas.

What I’m trying to state here is that a VA offer is not considered as strong of an offer as a conventional offer, even if both buyers are “pre-approved” for a mtg. If you HAVE a 20% downpayment, why not use conventional financing (which has far less closing costs than VA financing)? It’s also far less headache for the seller. This would strengthen your position and give you more housing choices.

Just because you have a Certificate of Eligibility from the VA doesn’t mean it is the best financing to use. It all depends on WHERE you are buying and HOW LONG you plan on owning the property.[/quote]

Roger, copy all. Nobody has mentioned it as being an issue and our realtor knows that we are not locked into using a VA loan. It would, as I mentioned earlier, not be a dealbreaker for us to use conventional.

I hope I have answered your questions adequately. Really, it was just kind of cathartic to get my recent frustration off my chest.

[bearishgurl]

Thank you, Akula. Nearly all of that area that you are shopping in is one that is “coveted” by homebuyers and residents. Perhaps the Northern VA area is more “friendly” to VA buyers than SD County is. Even though you state here, “(your) realtor knows (you) can go either way,” the offers you have been writing included VA financing with little or no money down, no? A seller only sees the offer you have submitted to them or hears the terms of that offer telephonically from their agent. They have no idea “what your realtor knows.” If you REALLY WANT a property, make sure your offer is as clean as possible.

Why don’t you find out if Seller A actually sold their property for a higher price than you offered? Talk is cheap. He will have the same problem (with the unregistered cert) with any other buyer who goes into escrow on his property. Perhaps he has fixed it by now and the property is still listed. Sellers’ egos sometimes get in the way and they get into a huff and make things difficult when what they REALLY want to do is sell. Perhaps you could approach him again with a cleaner offer and a different agent

Akula, it sounds like you are serious buyers and I hope you are successful on the purchase of a home. Most of Fairfax County is a very good permanent choice to settle in, even AFTER you leave active duty :=)

[patb]

akula

well don’t worry on closing day, the listing agent
was trying to get me arrested.

personally i think he’s both insane and a bigot.

[CA renter]

[quote=Akula1992]Patb,

Glad to hear that everything worked out well for you. My wife and I recently moved from SD to DC and our experience in buying a home here has been horrible. Permit me to share, if you will.

We started looking for a house in the middle of the summer. After many weeks of looking at houses that didn’t meet our list of desires we changed realtors. The new realtor was great and listened to what we wanted and really worked hard for us. That was the good news.

So we finally find a house in a great location, good schools, good commute, regular sale, etc, etc. I will call this house “A”. Put an offer in on the house, do a little negotiating and have a ratified contract. 2 days before closing my wife discovers a significant defect in the contract (County records are different from what the house was being sold as). Our realtor contact the listing agent(who is also the owner of the property) to work out the problem. The seller is in possession of records (septic cert) showing the discrepancy but refuses to submit them to the title company. Those records are required to be able to proceed to settlement. We agree to give the seller time to remedy the problem and extend the closing date approximately a week to expire at 1200 on the designated day. We have a second house, House “B”, in hot standby in case the contract falls through on house “A”. Noontime comes and goes on the second closing day and we can’t get a reply from the seller of house “A”. He finally responds late in the afternoon saying that he refuses our offer and declares the contract null and void. (Which he cannot do. There is a bunch more to this story and could be a stand alone post but I want to get to the rest of the houses)

We scramble to get the offer in on house “B” because we know there is another offer on that house. The seller agent knows the offer in coming in but decides to only submit the other(lower) offer to the sellers and go to bed early that night. In the absence of any other offer, the sellers take the lower offer. Our offer is never submitted to the sellers. SO the delay on the part of the seller/agent on house “A” causes our offer on house “B” to be delayed. Couple that with the professional negligence of the seller agent and we lose house “B” as well.

Next up is house “C”. Despite being on the market for a looooong time, we decide to put in an offer on it. As if by magic, this house becomes a hot property as soon as we show interest. There are 3 interested parties of which we are one. The first offer is a bit lower than asking price. We submit an offer that is over asking price because, at this point, we just want a dang house. Unbeknownst to us, the seller agent from house “B” knows the seller agent from house “C” and secretly tells her that we were really late in submitting an offer on house “B” and that she probably doesn’t want to deal with us. Really? Anyway, the seller agent on house “C” only submits the first offer to the seller ignoring the two higher offers from us and the other party. We lose house “C”.

On to house “D”. We put in an offer on this place and it looks like it might go through. One sticking point is that the sellers keep insisting that the house is being sold “as is”. Sorry there fella, but the VA does not do “as is”, my loan is a VA loan and the contract is contingent on the VA funding the loan. If you don’t like it you can put your house back on the market – hey, it’s only been an active listing for a little over 1000 days… your choice.

As it stands right now I think I have seen just about every breach of professional conduct that I ever wish to see from realtors. How hard can this be? You have a house you want to sell. I have a pile of money and funding to buy the dang thing. Let’s get the deal done. It almost seems that people are deliberately trying to make this as difficult and painful as possible. If house “D” falls through I think I will go back to renting.[/quote]

Akula,

We’ve dealt with the same issues in SD that you’ve mentioned here — especially the listing agent not submitting the offer, even though it was higher/better than their “perferred” offer. Because of this, we decided that we would personally submit every offer directly to the sellers. That way, at least you know that the seller saw your offer. If they decide to take a lower offer for whatever reason, at least you know you got a fair chance.

This is what we eventually did on the house we purchased. I went directly to the seller before saying anything to the listing or selling agents. Only after I had negotiated everything with the seller did we have the agent write it up and submit it per our specifications. Though the agents might not like it, that doesn’t really matter. They have destroyed their reputations so badly by these unethical deals (like not submitting ALL offers, which they are legally required to do), that no buyer or seller should ever feel obligated to do things by the “realtor rules” in a transaction. Get a good attorney, if you feel the need, but remember that you are the only one representing your own best interests.

Best of luck to you!

[Author]

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