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  • November 26, 2012 at 11:48 AM #755288
    bearishgurl
    Participant

    [quote=UCGal]All I can say is on the Russ V BG discussion – I’m in the Russ camp.

    And I’m glad BG isn’t in my neighborhood – since we have several partially completed projects. After contractors burned us we are strictly DIY and stuff gets done as we have time. Progress is being made – but not on the pace it would be made if we’d hired someone.

    Thankfully – we have neighbors who like us and are fine with our pace of progress. Even if we are DIY – even for stucco.[/quote]

    I wouldn’t mind long-term “partially completed projects” and gaping holes in stucco in my midst either if I wasn’t considering putting my place on the market in ~18 months.

    UCGal, you’ve stated here a few times before that you will never sell. And you shouldn’t, IMHO, for obvious reasons. If I was in your shoes, I wouldn’t give a whit about what the neighbors did (or didn’t) do to their properties. I would enjoy the h@ll out of my low tax rate and just “retire.” And if I chose to move somewhere else for awhile, I would just lease the unit(s) out. If your property had been reassessed after the completion of your granny flat to, say $550-650K, you might have a completely different opinion on the matter 🙂

    Where we stand depends on where we sit.

    November 26, 2012 at 2:04 PM #755295
    UCGal
    Participant

    [quote=bearishgurl]
    Where we stand depends on where we sit.[/quote]

    I am planning on retiring here.
    It assessed slightly higher than the range you stated – but still put us well underwater on paper. Good thing we have very little debt in it.
    I do care what my neighbors think of me… friction with neighbors reduces your quality of life. But they like us despite our ongoing projects.

    November 29, 2012 at 1:40 PM #755478
    Wantoceanview
    Participant

    I’ve read all the above posts and just wanted to comment. My husband and I sold our house in Tierrasanta and moved to Bay Park because we wanted to be closer to the coast (a bay view would be nice!). Unfortunately, we are having to rent because of low inventory. And, when something does pop up that we want, it is immediately snatched up by flippers who can offer cash. We are Gen Xers who want to put our own sweat equity into a house. We have no intentions of buying and flipping a fixer. We want a fixer to fix as our own. It is so very frustrating for us! Flippers will get the fixers before we even have a chance, then flip it for more than we are willing to spend because we STILL have to fix it to our liking.

    Any advice? Or are we SOL…

    January 9, 2013 at 1:52 PM #757374
    SD Squatter
    Participant

    [quote=SD Squatter]With San Diego inventory at all time lows, I find it disturbing that short-sale flopping is still happening right in the open:

    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/10782-Viacha-Dr-92124/home/5403989

    • 1-minute midnight listing at way-below market price marked pending check!
    • Crappy pictures with discouraging description check!
    • Agent not answering phone, nor accepting other offers check!
    • Listing agent also representing the buyer check!
    • The bank not giving a … about it check!

    When will it stop?[/quote]

    Heh heh, guess what, the story doesn’t end there:

    Exquisite remodel by CT Homes from the Hit TV show “Flip This House”.
    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/10782-Viacha-Dr-92124/home/5403989

    Of course we have a 50% ($225,000) flipper premium. Or shall we call this the TV show premium? This is more than funny 🙂 Here is the link to the original flopped “sale”:

    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/10782-Viacha-Dr-92124/home/5403989/crmls-T12125981

    January 9, 2013 at 2:23 PM #757375
    paulflorez
    Participant

    That’s exactly what happened here:
    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3627-36th-St-San-Diego-CA-92104/16960138_zpid/

    Selling agent took offers, but told us to bid $250,000 specifically and that the bank was guaranteed to take it. After offer is accepted, zero contact. I eventually was able to contact him by leaving a message saying that I was interested in a property that he listed (he knew my agent but not me) and then telling him the property I was interested in I had already bid on and he wasn’t returning my agents calls. He was reassuring again.

    A week or so later, he emails telling us we didn’t get the offer. House sold for $250,000, shows up a week later as a listing again for $320,000 with the same selling agent.

    So much for a “free market”.

    January 9, 2013 at 2:27 PM #757376
    bearishgurl
    Participant

    [quote=SD Squatter][quote=SD Squatter]With San Diego inventory at all time lows, I find it disturbing that short-sale flopping is still happening right in the open:

    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/10782-Viacha-Dr-92124/home/5403989

    • 1-minute midnight listing at way-below market price marked pending check!
    • Crappy pictures with discouraging description check!
    • Agent not answering phone, nor accepting other offers check!
    • Listing agent also representing the buyer check!
    • The bank not giving a … about it check!

    When will it stop?[/quote]

    Heh heh, guess what, the story doesn’t end there:

    Exquisite remodel by CT Homes from the Hit TV show “Flip This House”.
    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/10782-Viacha-Dr-92124/home/5403989

    Of course we have a 50% ($225,000) flipper premium. Or shall we call this the TV show premium? This is more than funny 🙂 Here is the link to the original flopped “sale”:

    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/10782-Viacha-Dr-92124/home/5403989/crmls-T12125981%5B/quote%5D

    I’ve seen more of these “flipper remodels” here in SD County done by CT Homes. They usually take a horribly outdated home and ready it for market to appeal to the the “masses” … that is, the younger set (mostly Gen Y) that “needs” a turnkey property to move into because they feel they can’t do any work themselves.

    There wouldn’t be any profit out there for these “flipper teams” if young buyers who needed family homes would buy fixers … and … instead of moving all their household goods in right away, move in air mattresses and get to work. That’s the way it used to be.

    CT Homes seems to do all the “right things” to make a successful profit. Did you think they work for free, SD Squatter? You DO realize that within that $225K, they have to recoup the cost of labor, materials and closing costs on both transactions, right??

    It’s a free country, SD Squatter. You either think it’s worth the price they’re asking and make an “acceptable” offer … or you don’t.

    Your other option was to buy it last year “as-is” for $450K and pay the closing costs, while you lived somewhere else since then and do what flippers do. Take your pick.

    If you knew about the listing when it was “in the rough,” why didn’t you make an offer back then?

    ******************

    If CT Homes purchased this Tierrasanta listing as a “short-sale,” at least they were an “arm’s-length” buyer (unlike the “crooked” SS’s selling to “relatives”). CT paid was it was worth to them at the time and the bank approved the sale. They now have the good fortune of marketing it in rising market but likely did not know at the time of purchase they would be able to ask $675K.

    You can’t win if you don’t play.

    January 9, 2013 at 2:43 PM #757379
    no_such_reality
    Participant

    Don’t under estimate the effort and risk they took. You can see enough in the three cruddy old pictures to guesstimate the amount of work they did.

    Full kitchen remodel. Non-supporting wall removal. Wood flooring (looks like laminate). New bathrooms, new appliances, ceiling work, wall work, paint through-out.

    Basically, a new home.

    If the original purchase price was $450K and the new purchase price is at $675K, unless the buyer has the expertise, contacts and know-how, to do it all at once, I suspect they’d actually spend $200K to piecemeal the various remodels together with contractors and live in a construction zone for 2 years.

    January 9, 2013 at 2:47 PM #757378
    bearishgurl
    Participant

    [quote=paulflorez]That’s exactly what happened here:
    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3627-36th-St-San-Diego-CA-92104/16960138_zpid/

    Selling agent took offers, but told us to bid $250,000 specifically and that the bank was guaranteed to take it. After offer is accepted, zero contact. I eventually was able to contact him by leaving a message saying that I was interested in a property that he listed (he knew my agent but not me) and then telling him the property I was interested in I had already bid on and he wasn’t returning my agents calls. He was reassuring again.

    A week or so later, he emails telling us we didn’t get the offer. House sold for $250,000, shows up a week later as a listing again for $320,000 with the same selling agent.

    So much for a “free market”.[/quote]

    paulflorez, I didn’t research the property but have a couple of questions.

    How do you know it “sold” for $250K a week later?

    If it DID recently sell, was the listing agent, his broker or a “straw buyer” on behalf of either one the “buyer?”

    Did the listing agent or his broker have a financial interest in the property when it was bought in 10/09 for $320K (within the period of time of the local market “trough”).

    Did you ever ask why it was listed at $250K when it was bought only three years prior during a period of low MIR’s and low prices? If so, what story did the LA give you?

    Hopefully, you may know the answers to any of the above three questions, which would shed a lot of light on your “experience” with the LA.

    edit: see bolded portion

    paulflorez, could YOUR agent actually have bought the property (under a spouse or relative’s name?) or gotten a straw buyer on his behalf before the short lender to purchase the property for $250K cash in order to effectively eliminate the higher debt on it. Could it be that he had his “bid” considered in lieu of yours in exchange for a another listing to the SS LA upon closing?

    Stranger things have happened.

    January 9, 2013 at 3:23 PM #757380
    SD Squatter
    Participant

    [quote=bearishgurl][quote=SD Squatter][quote=SD Squatter]With San Diego inventory at all time lows, I find it disturbing that short-sale flopping is still happening right in the open:

    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/10782-Viacha-Dr-92124/home/5403989

    • 1-minute midnight listing at way-below market price marked pending check!
    • Crappy pictures with discouraging description check!
    • Agent not answering phone, nor accepting other offers check!
    • Listing agent also representing the buyer check!
    • The bank not giving a … about it check!

    When will it stop?[/quote]
    (…)
    CT Homes seems to do all the “right things” to make a successful profit. Did you think they work for free, SD Squatter? You DO realize that within that $225K, they have to recoup the cost of labor, materials and closing costs on both transactions, right??

    It’s a free country, SD Squatter. You either think it’s worth the price they’re asking and make an “acceptable” offer … or you don’t.

    [/quote]

    You obviously misunderstood the point I was making, bearishgurl. I have absolutely nothing against fixing and flipping houses for profit. It’s beneficial for the neighborhood and if there are people willing to pay someone for that, that’s great.

    [quote=bearishgurl]
    Your other option was to buy it last year “as-is” for $450K and pay the closing costs, while you lived somewhere else since then and do what flippers do. Take your pick.

    If you knew about the listing when it was “in the rough,” why didn’t you make an offer back then?

    ******************

    If CT Homes purchased this Tierrasanta listing as a “short-sale,” at least they were an “arm’s-length” buyer (unlike the “crooked” SS’s selling to “relatives”). CT paid was it was worth to them at the time and the bank approved the sale. They now have the good fortune of marketing it in rising market but likely did not know at the time of purchase they would be able to ask $675K.

    You can’t win if you don’t play.[/quote]

    The point I was trying to make was that the original sale was not really an “arm’s-length”, obviously you’ve missed that part (see my check list in the original post). So no, it was not really possible to purchase the house back then and CT Homes did not really pay the market price, since the house was never in the open market. Here is the original listing again including fabulous photos of that flop that went pending the same day it was listed:

    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/10782-Viacha-Dr-92124/home/5403989/crmls-T12125981

    Sold 9 days later.

    You can’t win if you don’t get a chance to play.

    January 9, 2013 at 3:50 PM #757381
    bearishgurl
    Participant

    [quote=SD Squatter]The point I was trying to make was that the original sale was not really an “arm’s-length”, obviously you’ve missed that part (see my check list in the original post). So no, it was not really possible to purchase the house back then and CT Homes did not really pay the market price, since the house was never in the open market. Here is the original listing again including fabulous photos of that flop that went pending the same day it was listed:

    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/10782-Viacha-Dr-92124/home/5403989/crmls-T12125981

    Sold 9 days later.

    You can’t win if you don’t get a chance to play.[/quote]

    I saw the (dated) listing, SD Squatter.

    CT Homes obviously had all cash and paid $20K over asking. Perhaps CT’s agent had a tacit “first dibs” agreement with several local brokers when a “jewel-in-the-rough” listing came in (such as this one). Are you intimating here that CT principals were relatives of the seller or Listing Agent, Mirna Arenas or principals of Listing Broker, Full Realty Svcs, Inc?

    Was this property a short sale?

    It looked to me as if the listing may have been occupied by a fixed-income senior citizen who had not done anything with the property in many years (very typical).

    “Traditional Sale” listings are MUCH easier to sell a little below market if they are owned outright (free and clear of liens).

    Note: I haven’t done any research on this property.

    January 9, 2013 at 4:28 PM #757382
    no_such_reality
    Participant

    [quote=SD Squatter]With San Diego inventory at all time lows, I find it disturbing that short-sale flopping is still happening right in the open:

    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/10782-Viacha-Dr-92124/home/5403989

    • 1-minute midnight listing at way-below market price marked pending check!
    • Crappy pictures with discouraging description check!
    • Agent not answering phone, nor accepting other offers check!
    • Listing agent also representing the buyer check!
    • The bank not giving a … about it check!

    When will it stop?[/quote]

    let’s re-examine this. What’s a one minute midnight listing? That fact that the thing goes live on MLS at 12:01AM data X/Y/Z? That’s when they go live. or are you saying, it was up for one minute?

    Way below market price? Not really, it looks to be about 15-20% below already rehabbed sales that occurred. That’s not way below, that’s reality on being 30 years dated.

    crappy pictures and discouraging description. IMHO, I can see plenty in the crappy pictures to guess this is a vintage 1978 home. Jewel in the rough, IMHO, is likely a compliment.

    Agent not accepting other offers. Can’t help you there, when did you call and how much cash were you throwing? Frankly, a smart agent would know this home and seller really need a seasoned rehabber to sell.

    bank not caring. Actually, not a bank sale would be my guess. There’s no way it would sell in 9 days if it was. likely was an equity seller.

    When we bought a little over two years ago, I saw so many of these homes in my ‘hood where the buyers were just waiting on top dollar.

    I’d walked through, talk with the wife. Purchase price $x.

    Kitchen remodel: $35K
    Master bathroom, remodel from 1960/70 to today. $15K.
    Bathroom #2 remodel: $8K.
    Bathroom #3 remodel: $3-8K
    Flooring 2600 SF, take your pick: $12-$30K.
    Paint (everything): $5K
    Lightning rehab:$1-$5K
    Windows/Patio Doors: $5-15K
    Roof: $0-$30K (Don’t know if they’ve got a new roof or not, photos look retouched so no telling, this one looks like about $10K)
    De-popcorn the ceiling: $5K
    Closet organizers:$1-5K.
    Removing 40 years of smoker/dog/old person smell… $0 just all the above.
    Landscaping $0-$30K.

    I’d pull up and just shudder when I saw the original shake roofs.

    January 10, 2013 at 2:33 PM #757481
    UCGal
    Participant

    I was curious so I went to CT homes website to see what they were up to.
    http://www.cthomesllc.com/home/homes-for-sale/

    Looks like they’ve been busy busy busy in San Diego.

    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/5375-Adams-Ave-92115/home/5466602

    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/4421-Felton-St-92116/home/5323551

    It appears they took on the risk of one of the homes in the La Jolla landslide area.
    http://www.redfin.com/CA/La-Jolla/5748-Desert-View-Dr-92037/home/4940718
    http://www.cthomesllc.com/home/homes-for-sale/desert-view-drive-la-jolla-ca-92037/

    January 11, 2013 at 5:08 PM #757571
    paulflorez
    Participant

    [quote=bearishgurl]How do you know it “sold” for $250K a week later?[/quote]

    It’s been a while, but I believe I went to the county records office to lookup the sale information. Either that or I did google-fu to find out who bought it and who was selling it and who was the new listing agent. I am sure the listing agent was the same person who sold it both times though. On Zillow it shows it sold for $245k and the last sale was $320k and both were in the same month, and I remember seeing one listing go away and a new one pop up. In fact, our realtor told us it was back on the market for $300+ and asked if we wanted to make an offer, but that was just the last straw for us as for buying a house.

    [quote=bearishgurl]If it DID recently sell, was the listing agent, his broker or a “straw buyer” on behalf of either one the “buyer?”[/quote]

    I’m not sure I understand. The listing agent was the same agent when it sold for $245k as a short sale and then sold again for $300k+ as a traditional sale. The name of the buyer in the first sale was the same name as the person who owned/sold it in the second sale.

    [quote=bearishgurl]Did the listing agent or his broker have a financial interest in the property when it was bought in 10/09 for $320K (within the period of time of the local market “trough”).[/quote]

    I have no idea. From what I recall he was listed only as the listing agent. He was not listed as an owner of the property in any way in the first or second sale, as far as I can remember.

    [quote=bearishgurl]Did you ever ask why it was listed at $250K when it was bought only three years prior during a period of low MIR’s and low prices? If so, what story did the LA give you?[/quote]

    Basically, the story was the bank had already approved the short-sale at that price and if we bid on this house we would get it. Not only did my agent tell me that the listing agent told him this, but the listing agent also told me this directly when I was finally able to get him to call me. We actually wanted to bid a higher price to have a better chance of getting it, but our agent said he didn’t want us to pay more than we had to and that we risk the bank doing something different with the short sale if it gets a higher price than what its already approved.

    [quote=bearishgurl]paulflorez, could YOUR agent actually have bought the property (under a spouse or relative’s name?) or gotten a straw buyer on his behalf before the short lender to purchase the property for $250K cash in order to effectively eliminate the higher debt on it. Could it be that he had his “bid” considered in lieu of yours in exchange for a another listing to the SS LA upon closing?[/quote]

    This is as much as possibility as the listing agent working with someone else to get the house via short sale at a very low price and then at the higher price. Either way, the listing agent gets commission twice on the same house in one month. Additional kickbacks may have been involved, who knows. What bothers me the most is that the listing agent encouraged us to bid $245k and, even more upsetting, our agent discouraged us from being more competitive in our bidding. I don’t know if it would have made any difference though, if the intent was that they get it at the lower price and they are in control of who it is sold to, they would have found a way to disqualify our bid.

    January 11, 2013 at 10:07 PM #757582
    bearishgurl
    Participant

    paul florez, from your responses, it seems to me that the LA had the buyer already picked out from the get go, but had to “list” the property for a minute and a half to “appease” the SS (stiffed) lender in effort to make them more amenable to accepting a low offer.

    Without looking at the record myself, I would have no way of knowing whether the buyer was related to the LA or LB. And even then, it is difficult to truly know. But it DOES appear that the buyer had an agreement with the LA to use her again in the quick-turnaround resale of the property for closer to its market price (for a quick profit).

    Ask yourself why a buyer in October of 2009 would need a “short sale” three years later in a VERY established neighborhood less than three miles from dtn SD. And why would a lender be duped into such a scam (unless there was a structural problem discovered AFTER the 10/09 sale)?

    January 16, 2013 at 12:06 AM #757790
    SD Squatter
    Participant

    [quote=no_such_reality][quote=SD Squatter]With San Diego inventory at all time lows, I find it disturbing that short-sale flopping is still happening right in the open:

    http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/10782-Viacha-Dr-92124/home/5403989

    • 1-minute midnight listing at way-below market price marked pending check!
    • Crappy pictures with discouraging description check!
    • Agent not answering phone, nor accepting other offers check!
    • Listing agent also representing the buyer check!
    • The bank not giving a … about it check!

    When will it stop?[/quote]

    let’s re-examine this. What’s a one minute midnight listing? That fact that the thing goes live on MLS at 12:01AM data X/Y/Z? That’s when they go live. or are you saying, it was up for one minute?
    [/quote]

    It was listed and immediately marked pending.

    [quote]
    Way below market price? Not really, it looks to be about 15-20% below already rehabbed sales that occurred. That’s not way below, that’s reality on being 30 years dated.
    [/quote]

    The “reality” should be discovered by the open market, this is just speculation. But this was not to be.

    [quote]
    crappy pictures and discouraging description. IMHO, I can see plenty in the crappy pictures to guess this is a vintage 1978 home. Jewel in the rough, IMHO, is likely a compliment.
    [/quote]

    Posting crappy pictures is also a good short-sale strategy to discourage bothersome potential buyers.

    [quote]
    Agent not accepting other offers. Can’t help you there, when did you call and how much cash were you throwing? Frankly, a smart agent would know this home and seller really need a seasoned rehabber to sell.
    [/quote]

    Voicemail full (over several days, starting the day it was listed). Finally:
    “Sorry, we are not accepting any more offers.”

    [quote]
    bank not caring. Actually, not a bank sale would be my guess. There’s no way it would sell in 9 days if it was. likely was an equity seller.
    [/quote]

    I guess the equity seller didn’t care much about the equity, but still cared enough, that he forced the agent to bother making a crappy listing just to pretend that the seller did care.

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