SDGE cutting power

[moneymaker]

OT: My initial reaction was it is wrong for SDG$E to cut power in the east county when the Santa Ana winds are blowing. If on a property with a well and no electricity then you effectively have no water. So if even a small fire were to start there would be only dirt to put it out. So it seems to me that their logic is just a knee jerk reaction to the fines they incurred from 2007. Power has never been historically cut before and the Santa Ana winds come every year. What do you think?

[FlyerInHi]

SDGE is just a private business protecting itself from liability. The extra revenue is not worth it to them. Makes perfect sense to me.

[spdrun]

Hopefully the lawsuits from people left without water to fight fires will make them think twice next time.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=spdrun]Hopefully the lawsuits from people left without water to fight fires will make them think twice next time.[/quote]

Do homeowners use well water to fight fires? I don’t think it works that way.
People choose to live in the back country. They should know the pros and cons.

[Hatfield]

SDG&E was found liable for their power lines sparking the 2007 Witch Fire that burned 200,000 acres, destroyed 1600+ buildings and killed two people. I’d say cutting power to fire prone areas during Santa Ana conditions makes a lot of sense.

[CA renter]

[quote=Hatfield]SDG&E was found liable for their power lines sparking the 2007 Witch Fire that burned 200,000 acres, destroyed 1600+ buildings and killed two people. I’d say cutting power to fire prone areas during Santa Ana conditions makes a lot of sense.[/quote]

Exactly. There are pros and cons with whatever decisions they make, but after the 2007 fires, they came up with new procedures.

Personally, my DH and I love the beauty of the more rural parts of the county, and we were seriously looking at houses on acreage, even making a few offers. Ultimately, when we looked around at all the beautiful hillsides, oak trees, etc. that we so enjoyed, we decided that it would really, really suck to be stuck there in a fire. That’s why we ended up buying in the suburbs again.

If people choose to live in the back-country, they should try to find a way to have an off-grid backup system in place. An large generator, solar system, etc. that can be used off-grid should be standard out there.

[njtosd]

You’d have to have a heck of a well and pump to actually pump enough water to fight a fire. If you needed to rely on a well for water to use in case of a fire, you’d have a water tower where you’d pump water somewhat slowly and store it. In areas where people are on well and septic (such as NJ) there was piped in water to supply the hydrants. Of course, there were some places that didn’t have the piping and didn’t have hydrants – it was more expensive to get insurance there. But then, the firefighters and EMS people were all volunteer and not intensively trained, so I don’t know whether the water was really the issue. . .

In terms of SDGE – you can’t have it both ways. Opposite courses of action cannot both be considered negligent. This sounds like a circumstance where there should be some sort of policy and then publicly funded insurance for whatever poor outcome arises (like vaccines).

[moneymaker]

I believe the pine hills area near Julian has the hydrants. Perhaps the best course of action is to clear brush 100′ around the house and not have a flammable roof. But it would still suck to be without electricity for extended periods of time. If this idea was put forth 6 months to a year ago I could see people preparing for it with solar and backup power (battery/generators), I was not affected but I feel sorry for those that were. Did they shut off the high tension wires? or just the smart meters?

[spdrun]

I assume the HT wires, which are more of a fire risk than individual homes at 120/240V. If it were smart meters and the meters contained an off switch, seems like it would be easy to bypass — exigent circumstances justify extreme action/”theft.”

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=moneymaker]I believe the pine hills area near Julian has the hydrants. Perhaps the best course of action is to clear brush 100′ around the house and not have a flammable roof. But it would still suck to be without electricity for extended periods of time. If this idea was put forth 6 months to a year ago I could see people preparing for it with solar and backup power (battery/generators), I was not affected but I feel sorry for those that were. Did they shut off the high tension wires? or just the smart meters?[/quote]

SDGE is replacing wood poles for metals poles at multi billion dollar cost. I think the rate payers are all paying. I have seen the SDGE crews working.

I don’t feel sorry for the residents of the back country.. People out in the boonies are not entitled to the same services as the more populated areas with higher economies of scale. Simple economics.

[Hobie]

Very compassionate of you Brian. As mentioned, the residents had nothing to do with the cause of the wildland fires and were receiving ‘services’ just like everyone else, yet they will suffer due to legal issues.

If you were true to your ideology, you would be pitching for forcing the electric monopoly to underground all of their services. Same school of thought as requiring them to have a specific amount of energy generated with green tech. Not economical, but politically favorable.

Does your ‘boonies’ statement hold up to the folks living on a ranch or in the middle of a farm growing the food you eat? No electric for them either?

.don’t answer please.

[FlyerInHi]

I have changed. My ideology is now money, money, money, win, win, win, me, me, me. It’s ok because my economics professor said individual greed results in the greater good.

Anyway, rates payers in all of SDGE s territory shouldn’t pay for a few residents to underground or replace poles. Is there such thing as a special utility assessment? I know that water or sewer districts can assess one area only for upgrades.

Also gotta admire SDGE s smart business acumen. As as a result of the previous fire, they hired two meteorologists to advise them and coordinate with local agencies and news organizations. If they are forced to keep electricity on they can avoid liability if a new fire occurs since, as njtosd said, opposites courses of action cannot both be considered negligent. Gotta admire smart!

Green tech is economical in the long term because of the potential for free or nearly free energy.

[ucodegen]

[quote=spdrun]Hopefully the lawsuits from people left without water to fight fires will make them think twice next time.[/quote]
The problem is sparking power lines have caused some very serious forest fires. Shutting down the power is a safety measure to prevent powerline sparking from starting another fire. Many people in the back-country do have backup generators, backup batteries and even their own small gas powered fire pumps. They will not fight fire directly from wells because wells do not flow the rate of water needed to fight a fire. They will use stored water. They will also use their own tractors/dozers to create layers of protection.

There is a significant amount of time that occurs before firefighting equipment can make it to the scene in the back-country. Not all the access is on paved roads.

NOTE: Water supply in the back country does not operate directly from a well. The well recharges a water storage tank as well as a diaphram based ‘pressurizer’. The pressurizer is used so that a pump does not have to run 24/7 to have line pressure within the house. City water also works on the same principle. Water is pumped to large tanks located higher than the residents (in the hills). Pumps only need to be run to recharge/refill these tanks. You can see them on Google maps. Here is one of them: Mostly inground for Carmel Valley Where it is flat, you get these water towers. There are a few of these in San Diego.
http://sohosandiego.org/main/event_uhwatertower031013b.htm
tin man

another one:

Brown mushroom water tower is cloudy but seen for miles

brown mushroom

The relationship between height and pressure for water is about 0.4psi per foot of altitude.

[spdrun]

I’m aware. I’m also aware that typical pressure tanks only have 50-100 gal capacity, some of which can’t be used once the pump stops due to pressure drop in the tank as water is used.

[ucodegen]

[quote=spdrun]I’m aware. I’m also aware that typical pressure tanks only have 50-100 gal capacity, some of which can’t be used once the pump stops due to pressure drop in the tank as water is used.[/quote]
True, but there is also the main storage tank which is often as large as 500gal or more. Add a gas powered pump and you have a reasonable ability to deal with some of the brush fires. Fire trucks carry around 250 to 500 gal of water on board. Water trucks from the fire department carry more.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200418131_200418131

On a related note: I have been watching the growth of the Thomas Fire. I have relatives in the middle of it. I am really surprised at its spread. The fire even doubled back on itself, which makes me wonder what is going on. Fire does not like to burn or ‘re-burn’ over area that it has already burned. Fire started at Santa Paula and headed west.. then about 5 days into it, reversed direction going back through Santa Paula… here is the fire map for the still burning Thomas Fire.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1CePU2TdEh86nmBDBfPOAXf8Hp7NlpVpA&ll=34.53306454088723%2C-119.29924313999027&z=10

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