Schools keep Poway homes in high demand

[JJGittes]

Eh, six in one, half dozen in the other….it’s all circular. Bottom line for me, the API scores ain’t perfect, but they do reflect the prevelant values of the student body (and the families they come from) as a whole. The scores are what they are, and the underlying root causes for them don’t really concern me. Nature versus nurture, whatever. I want my kid to have every advantage possible, and that includes going to schools that have lots of kids oriented toward academics and who are doing well, for whatever reason. I’ll leave the “why” to social scientists to mull over between now and the next ice age.

[powayseller]

We moved to Poway in 1999 for the schools. The high API means more than just a high score. It means my kids are surrounded by other kids whose parents value education.

After moving to Poway, I found out what else is hidden in the API: the higher socieconomic group that implies a high API provides the PTA and Foundation money to buy computers, art teachers, PE teacfhers, music programs. Fewer kids left home alone after school means less bad kids to influence my kids. High API means classmates’ parents are educated and spend time to do volunteer work, teach their kids, give them opportunities, help in the classroom.

I also saw that the best teachers compete for the few openings in the Poway schools. Poway has the pick of the best teachers, and the San Diego magazine ranking was for the quality of Poway High teachers, with many having masters degrees. My son’s elementary school has many teachers near retirement age, with decades of teaching experience. New openings go to the cream of the crop. The good teachers don’t end up in National City. Sorry, but teachers have choices too, and they like to work at the schools where kids come with breakfast in their tummies. This is a better environment for *my* kids. So I give my kids the best environment, with a gifted program. I found all this at Poway schools, even though it is so underfunded, that I envy lostkitty.

In any case, people with kids who can afford Poway schools, come here. If they have no kids, they don’t care about schools yet and get a starter home elsewhere. If they cannot afford Poway, they convince themselves their kids can get a good education elsewhere. asianautica made the best of the Mira Mesa environment. Why didn’t his parents live in Poway? That’s what I would like to know. Also, how did he beat the odds in Mira Mesa? I think that colleges give an advantage to those poor districts, so he was given a few extra points in the admittance process for coming from a disadvantaged school. That may be another factor to keep in mind.

My sister in law is in the Chula Vista district, and they can’t seem to fine enough parents to help with anything down there.

Our Tierra Bonita Education Foundation raised $50K last year to replace the elementary school computers.

I will keep putting my kids in a high-scoring school, because I want to provide a high-learning environment. I got that, and I am grateful. My daughter compares herself with gifted kids, whose parents are physicist, lawyer, doctor, engineers, etc. Those are her peers. She wouldn’t have that in Chula Vista.

[sdrealtor]

“As an Asian American, I’m really sick of guys like you using the “they grew up in a non-English speaking household” argument to defend the Hispanics that have been here for 20 years and still speak no English. When at the same time most Asians grew up also in non-English speaking homes and end up being high income professionals.”

Sure you might have come from a non-english speaking household, but did you come from a household where your parents did not have a 3rd grade education? It’s a tough cycle to beat and those that do deserve all the credit in the world. If you are one from this background you really deserve all the success you will have. But this isnt my point and you taking me away from my point.

Bright kids will do well where ever they go as long as they come from good homes that value education. The API scores are averages that skew towards areas without economic diversity. In Encinitas some schools have higher API scores but take a good kid from a good family with involved parents and I question whether they will do any better or worse at the worst school or the best school in the district. My point is to take the time to look inside the data and not just take it for face value.

[powayseller]

Kids have better opportunities at high API schools. Poway High has the best band program in the County, Twin Peaks Middle School in Poway has the 2nd best PE program in CA for a middle school. Your kids will be surrounded by other high achieving kids, and the school will have donations for equipment and programs that the poor parents cannot provide. I stand by my assertion that kids are better off in high API scores.

If you send your kids to a low API school, you are busy justifying the decision. You didn’t want to pay the school premium, but put the money into a bigger house. I gave up square footage for a higher API.

[sdrealtor]

Still missing the point out there. I’m not talking about low API score schools. I’m talking about the second tier not those located in poor areas. The difference between the high API schools and second tier schools is about more diversity. Take a school like La Costa Canyon with API scores of 782. if you look at that you miss the point I am making. 6% of the students are english learners and their API scores average 493. These students are likely from long time families involved in agriculture. At Torrey pines which has an API of 821 only 3% are English leaners and their API scores average about 625. Thes estudents are likely from recent immigrants with well educated but not english speaking parents. Thats the biggest difference between these two schools.

[anxvariety]

This feels like a class warfare on eggshells thread! I see lots of baiting, but I’ve hijacked enough threads to take the bait.. I’ll make a positive contribution.

Who wouldn’t want to pick the “best” thing for their kids.. whether, people will actually take the steps necessary during crunch time?

Price elasticity of demand
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In economics, the price elasticity of demand (PED) is an elasticity that measures the nature and degree of the relationship between changes in quantity demanded of a good and changes in its price.

An example of a good with a highly inelastic demand curve is salt: people need salt, so for even relatively large changes in the price of salt, the amount demanded will not be significantly altered. Similarly, a product with a highly elastic demand curve is red cars: if the price of red cars went up even a small amount, demand is likely to go down since substitutes are readily available for purchase (cars of other colors).

[rankandfile]

I don’t think that race should be a factor in education, but we must understand that it is. Historically, caucasian and asian Americans have performed better in school…period. If I am racist for saying this, so be it. But if I am a racist, why are there “race-sensitive” admission policies at universities? (http://www.hooverdigest.org/993/sowell2.html)

Why some groups perform better than others is multifold and can’t be readily discussed within the scope of this post. Suffice it to say that yes, some bright people will perform well no matter the environment. Some bright people will also perform poorly no matter the environment. In general, however, we are only as good as our competition. Higher academic standards and greater academic competition will tend to produce better pupils. I hit .457 one summer on my men’s league baseball team. Do you think that if you suddenly transplanted me into the Major Leagues that I’d achieve similar results? There’s a possiblity that I would, but it is highly unlikely.

In terms of buying a home, I would not buy a home in any place where I felt that they did not have a good chance to learn as much as possible, regardless of the demographics of the school.

[CardiffBaseball]

As a newcomer to SD, and one living in the Cardiff/Encinitas areas I sense something different from people when speaking of Poway. I gather that people here look at Poway as kind of a slight step up from El Cajon but still redneckish.

Again this is anecdotal, but the grumbles I hear when we have to travel that way for a ball game make me think many west of El Camino Real don’t share the same amazing opinion of Poway. I guess it’s all a matter of perspective.

I lived in Mira Mesa/Scripps Ranch hotel (I-15 and Mira Mesa Blvd.) my first 6 months here in SD before the family arrived. There was no way I was going to stay. I used to go to the park to play a little basketball and there were some thugs out there.

sdrealtor:
I seem to recall when looking at demographics, LCC had the highest percentage of whites amongst the areas I was considering, though there is a growing latino population. I think the reason was that Torrey Pines, and Westview/Carmel Mountain Ranch schools simply have a higher percentage of Asians. Of course I only wound up in Cardiff because of a great deal in rent, in terms of commute, and schools I was looking in the area around Westview high because RB and Poway were just too far away. Everytime I nearly rented a place in Penasquitos, someone outbid me. However it all worked out as I enjoy living near the coast.

[blahblahblah]

Paying more for the best schools can sometimes be a bad idea. My parents stretched themselves back in the 70s to buy a home in the best school district they could afford, and the financial pressure (their mortgage payments doubled) drove my dad to the bottle. Soon after moving into the new house, my dad started spending more and more time at the bars and my mom finally filed for divorce. I had been a gifted kid, but my mom worked all the time so she didn’t notice when my grades began slipping and got kicked out of all of my honors classes. When it came time to apply for college, I didn’t even bother. Neither of my parents noticed, being too wrapped up in their careers and new relationships. I eventually ended up getting a degree from a state school and I have done well, however all of my teachers had predicted that I’d get an Ivy League education and become a famous doctor or scientist based on my early schoolwork and test scores. To make a long story short, being an active and involved parent and loving partner to your spouse are more important than what school district you choose to purchase a home in.

[Bugs]

“To make a long story short, being an active and involved parent and loving partner to your spouse are more important than what school district you choose to purchase a home in.”

That sums it up for me, too. Parental involvement and commitment to success is the defining factor in performance. I live in Carlsbad and although it’s a pretty good school district it has its share of lazy and apathetic teachers.

However, regardless of my personal opinion on the matter there remains the main question of this thread about how the market reacts to Poway’s schools. Even if I am right about family involvement being the key to success, if the average homebuyer thinks the schools are the attraction then the schools are the attraction. There are lots of people who don’t like living near the beach because of the gray and gloom of the marine layer, but that doesn’t mean that the market doesn’t value coastal proximity.

That said, there remains the data that demonstrates that the prices are slightly higher in RPQ/RB and much higher in Scripps, both of which are adjacent to Poway and both of which have lower rated and less popular schools. As far as I can see that pretty much shoots down the price-relates-to-school-quality theory.

There’s obviously another reason for why Poway’s June volumes are higher than they were in May. I have a couple ideas about that, but I’m going to have to break the data down by price ranges and physical attributes to see if those ideas pan out. The conclusions have to follow the data, not my personal opinions.

BTW, SDRealtor’s comments about the MLS Sold numbers increasing after the 1st of the month are absolutely correct. Most of the zip areas show a couple more sales now than they did when I first looked them up. Not enough to change the trend of a declining June vs. May, but it did reduce the percentages. It seems some of the realty agents really are a bit slow to update their listings after they close.

[sdrealtor]

BUgs and Concho,
I’m with you on the schools. I attended one of the Top 50 high schools in the country. We had about 800 students of which about 100 went on to attend Ivy League Schools and 90+% went onto to 4 year universities. When I got to college there were plenty of kids from lower rated schools that kicked my butt because of the work ethic and level of commitment instilled by their parents. There were also plenty of spoiled rich kids who amounted to nothing.

As for the MLS numbers, anecdotally you can expect the numbers to rise another 10% or so when all is said and done. I agree that it still doesnt change the trend decline. There are alot of hurting agents out there and will be more. I hear lots of grumbling from inspectors, pest control companies, appraisers, escrow, title and particularly mortgage folks. I look forward to the winnowing out of the weaker fish that is coming.

[ocrenter]

Sure you might have come from a non-english speaking household, but did you come from a household where your parents did not have a 3rd grade education?

of course not. that’s why I stated it is all about socioeconomic circumstances, not whether English is spoken at home or not. Schools in Diamond Bar and Rowland Heights consistantly score very high despite drawing from mostly recent Asian immigrants.

I know you agree this really just comes down to socioeconomic factors and really, English spoken at home or not really doesn’t play into it that much. You just don’t like to admit you are wrong with that initial comment. Nor do you like to admit that getting hotheaded and start calling folks names is just childish.

why don’t you just appologize and we can all move on.

[sdrealtor]

No you simply thread skim. I said it was socioeconomic but that data is not available so looking at the English as a 2nd language data serves as a good surrogate data point in the Encinitas area where they are predominantly hispanic households working in agriculture.

You were the one ranting about the 20 year residents not speaking English. Why dont you just apologize for taking my comments out of context and running in a different direction than what I said?

[ocrenter]

A big factor in API scores is the demographics. The API scores are available by ethnicity and what you frequently find is the middle class caucasian/asian kids scores are very similar from school to school. When you have hispanic kids growing up in homes that english is the second language you will naturally see lower API scores for them that will pull down the schools average. Thus High API scores is often as much a factor of a lack of diversity as anything else.

oh no you don’t. there’s no thread skimming here. You stated that growing up in homes where english is the 2nd language “naturally” will see kids with lower API schore. There was no implied or direct comment that you are using this as a surrogate data point.

stick to the facts, guy. you jumped the gun and called people names first. that fits with your reputation here. enuff said.

[powayseller]

Interesting point, Bugs. Perhaps Poway’s reputation as “best schools” is more marketing hype than reality. Somehow people think that Poway schools are the best, and are more anxious to move here. Scripps Ranch prices are higher, according to what you said (and hs mentioned before the rents are higher there too). RP and RB are part of the Poway school district, so again people are paying a premium for the schools.

My thesis is that houses in the Poway school district cost more for sq foot than other inland areas like Mira Mesa, due to the desirability of the schools. Families will pay the Poway prices, if they can. Whether that gives their kids a better education is questionable, based on the input I read here.

I would need to defer to you Bugs, in whether my thesis is correct. If not, the prices in Poway and Mira Mesa should be similar.

I am also interested in how this perception of Poway schools got started.

ocrenter, I understand your dilemna. I was at the receiving end of this many times. As an outsider to the misunderstanding, I can see why I got no sympathy: the attacks are not noticeable to others, but hit strongly to the person to whom they are addressed. Another interesting think I am learning about forums. In any case, I learned English at age 9, and I skipped 7th grade. There is an ethnic bias against education among Mexicans, because they don’t value education as much as whites or Asians. Mexicans value family and hard work. They tend to be really loving, hard working, and close as a family. Important qualities. Their culture doesn’t value education, so they have a low chance of ever being like Japan or China in the global economy. That is not racist, it is an observation.

There is a difference between being racist/sexist and making an observation. Remeber the feminists who screamed at data showing boys were better at math, that their brains are wired to process logic? They said this kind of study should not be done, because it is sexist. So we should deny the biology of our brains so as to not offend the feminists? Boys are better at math than girls, in general. Girls are better at nurturing and communication. People get defensive at these facts because they are insecure.

Likewise, areas with higher concentrations of Hispanics have more reduced-fee lunches, higher drop-out rates, lower APIs. sdrealtor is right that the API just follows the demographics. You could eliminate the API and just publish the demographics, and you will know the school’s test scores. But that would be politically incorrect.

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