Properly Incentivizing Buyer’s Agent

[UCGal]

[quote=XBoxBoy][quote=ljinvestor]IMO, you just need to find a buyers agent you can trust and let them collect the 2-3%[/quote]

This might be a bit harsh, but… I don’t think the OP needs to find someone they can trust. What they do need to do is to firmly understand there are four sets of interest in any real estate transaction. The seller’s interests, the seller’s agent’s interests, the buyer’s agent’s interests, and the buyer’s interests. At no time should anyone really “trust” the other to look out for their interests. Each party needs to look out for their own interests.

As a buyer that means becoming knowledgeable about the market you’re looking in, comps, expenses, etc. Gain as much knowledge about what the stages of escrow are as you can, etc.

But a buyer should not trust their agent with all that they are thinking. For instance, a buyer shouldn’t tell their agent, “heck, I’d go another 10k without walking away.” As a buyer you want everyone in the transaction to be aware that you can and will walk away if you don’t get a deal you feel is fair.

Lastly, if you really feel you want to trust other parties in the deal, trust them to look out for their interests. So, yes if your agent thinks you are going to walk away from the deal, then I think it’s fair to trust that your agent will do whatever he can to make the deal happen, even if it means a slightly reduced commission. But trusting your agent to represent your interests doesn’t seem that wise to me.

XBoxBoy[/quote]
Like, +1, whatever. I agree with this.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=ucodegen][quote=bearishgurl][quote=sdrealtor] . . . CRazy huh?[/quote]

Not a psychologist but there is just one word (acronym) to describe this “phenomenon” . . . “NPD” (formerly DSM-IV-TR 301.81‎).[/quote]Actually, Narcissistic Personality Disorder does not fit. NPD people don’t compete, or have to win. They feel that they should win by default.. since they are so special. They don’t have to put out any effort. Excessive competitive can actually be the reverse of narcissism/NPD, in that they feel that they have to prove it continually. If you remember back to when this board first talked about NPD and about a certain individual, this individual didn’t feel they had to put forth an effort.. they were special, the ‘ideas’ person… and went promptly into a hole for over $1Mil, bringing the wife down with them.

The competitive, have to win, personality is a type-A.

NOTE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder is not equivalent to having some Narcissistic attributes. There are also two forms of ‘Narcissism’. ‘Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder'(CNPD) could fit hyper competitive individuals.

PS: btw, the need to respond to sdrealtors post in this manner could mirror the need to put down others… also listed under NPD and CNPD. Kettle, pot…[/quote]

uco, if you have been paying attention here, you will realize that it is/was actually sdr who has taken every opportunity over the years to publicly insult me and put ME down, that is, until Rich (wisely) gave him the option of “ignoring me” late last year. It worked (for awhile) until he recently “fell off the wagon.”

As you know, one of THE main traits of NPD is:

“Reacts to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

I have never insulted sdr or called him names as he has repeatedly done to me. Knowing full well that he could not help himself due to NPD and that this “condition” is incurable, I am “okay with all of that” as this is an online blog. Having studied this phenomenon “in depth” due to having to deal with several persons in my lifetime who were and are textbook “N’s,” my skillset allows me to deal with them in an effective manner.

As you have previously posted, uco, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know when they are dealing with an “N.” It’s pretty self-explanatory.

[quote=bearishgurl on May 18, 2011 – 1:24 pm]…The study of NPD is indeed fascinating.[/quote]

see: http://piggington.com/totally_ot_governator_sires_child_with_home_worker?page=3

[ucodegen]

As I said: Kettle, pot.
[quote bearishgurl]uco, if you have been paying attention here, you will realize that it is/was actually sdr who has taken every opportunity over the years to publicly insult me and put ME down, [/quote]And you have taken several opportunities to do likewise.. and put much effort into ‘correcting’ the situation instead of letting it blow over.
[quote bearishgurl]I have never insulted sdr or called him names as he has repeatedly done to me. [/quote] What do you call [quote=bearishgurl][quote=sdrealtor] . . . CRazy huh?[/quote]

Not a psychologist but there is just one word (acronym) to describe this “phenomenon” . . . “NPD” (formerly DSM-IV-TR 301.81‎).[/quote]You just couldn’t let his comment about himself alone.. you had to add something – add your own little dig.

As a result, you proved my statement.. “Kettle, pot”, not only your added dig against sdr, but having to respond to my post in indignation

“Reacts to criticism with anger, shame, or humiliation”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

. As for the study of NPD, I am quite familiar with it. I had to live with a parent afflicted with the disorder, which if you check back, I did post about.

I would also suggest you apprise yourself of the following comment and why it was said:[quote=SD Realtor]wait for it….[/quote]
Personally, I am tired of the side/back/around-the-back handed digs. He said something effacing of himself… but you had to add your own little dig – so unnecessary!

[bearishgurl]

[quote=ucodegen] . . . As for the study of NPD, I am quite familiar with it. I had to live with a parent afflicted with the disorder, which if you check back, I did post about. . . .[/quote]

I wouldn’t be able to find the post you speak of, uco, but this statement speaks volumes about your current “mindset.” I didn’t have a parent with NPD but I could well imagine it must have been a “hard row to hoe” for you, especially while a minor. Have you ever heard of “inverted narcissism?”

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency

Truly, I understand your position, now …. you likely felt you had no choice but to take whatever treatment was dished out to you all those years.

I’m very sorry for what you had to go thru, uco.

Could I just ask you though, if the shoe were on the other foot . . . that is, if YOU were receiving dozens of repeated unsolicited, overt and blatant insults by ONE individual, whether personally or online, how would YOU handle it??

I will concede that narcissism is a legal set of behaviors and that it affects an unknown but good percentage of the population.

I was taught a few valuable concepts early on, however, which have served me well throughout life: Those are:

* To call a spade a spade (person, place or thing). It is what it is, nothing more or less. Persons who have an innate need to continually “sugar-coat” another person, idea, place or thing are automatically suspect and are covering something up. That something is usually the elephant in the room.

* If one wants to fully understand what (or who) they are actually looking at or considering getting involved in, they would be best served by knowing what (or who) it was. If they don’t have this information, it is best to ask someone who does know. Otherwise, they risk making very bad decisions that could affect them for a long time. Again, this applies to a person, place or thing.

* Unless mentally or developmentally disabled, all adults bear personal responsibility for their own behavior.

I have no anger here. If I was “angry,” as you imply, I wouldn’t be participating on this forum and would be doing something else, instead.

I wish you well, uco.

[ucodegen]

[quote bearishgurl]I wouldn’t be able to find the post you speak of, uco, but this statement speaks volumes about your current “mindset.” I didn’t have a parent with NPD but I could well imagine it must have been a “hard row to hoe” for you, especially while a minor. Have you ever heard of “inverted narcissism?”[/quote]If find it quite amusing that you throw out all these accusations of mental disorders to those that may disagree with you, and in the process avoid the issue, which was:

You adding in a dig against someone who was making a self effacing comment. Their comment was in no way addressed to offend you. On the other hand, your comment of

Not a psychologist but there is just one word (acronym) to describe this “phenomenon” . . . “NPD” (formerly DSM-IV-TR 301.81‎).

was specifically targeted at that individual. It was uncalled for, and did not add anything to the posting or discussion thread. As such, the only purpose would be to bait that individual, possibly making yourself feel better in the process. Your seeming justification was:

It worked (for awhile) until he recently “fell off the wagon.”

or

it is/was actually sdr who has taken every opportunity over the years to publicly insult me and put ME down..

But considering the posting, it looked like it was you who fell off the wagon.

I don’t know if you have had children, but there are two phrases that come to mind in the scenario where one child is caught doing something they shouldn’t and proceeds to say: “Well he did it first!”.
1) “That may be, but I caught you doing it just now.”
2) “Two wrongs don’t make a right” – real oldie there.

In the past, both you and sdrealtor “gave as you got”.. no real winner. There is no point in baiting now. You ask what I would do if the shoe was reversed? Certainly not try to ‘bait’ them by insinuating that they have NPD. I would de-fuse and redirect their statements, or ignore them altogether. The end result is that if they give repeated insults etc, they end up impeaching their own character through their actions. I certainly would not return with “Global Thermonuclear War” – a game in which neither win.

You state:

I was taught a few valuable concepts early on, however, which have served me well throughout life: Those are:

* To call a spade a spade (person, place or thing).

And that is exactly what I was doing when I addressed your first post about NPD on this thread. It was, and is, uncalled for. By doing it, you only stoop to what you perceive is sdrealtors level. ie: Kettle, pot.. which comes from the phrase: A kettle calling the Pot black.

And note that sdrealtor’s post after yours was:

Lol. I actually checked wiki for the NPD definition. Some of it fit but most didn’t. The biggest part is I don’t do it for admiration from others it is all internal motivation.

. Not even an ounce of personal attack against you.

[urbanrealtor]

Its interesting how much misunderstanding exists regarding the commission structure.
At one point a year or so ago, I was drinking coffee with a real estate journalist I respect very much.
This individual thought
a: that a buyer going through a listing agent saved a seller money and
b: that buyer agents pushed for higher purchase prices to get a higher commission.

Now a) is just not true (commissions for buyer side is establised at time of listing and is almost always paid whether or not there is a separate buyer agent) and b) has such a low return rate as a perverse incentive structure that it is not a big issue.
I won’t go so far as to say that it never happens. I am sure it does. Somewhere. With really stupid agents.

A way around this is to simply name a buyer-side commission for the agent. If the offered commission is high, the difference comes as a buyer rebate. If the commission is low, then the buyer gets to pony up.

If I know the commission is $10k no matter what, I am going to push for $380k because I know that is more likely to get the deal done (and me paid) than if the price is $420k.

My 2 bits

[Fearful]

[quote=urbanrealtor]If I know the commission is $10k no matter what, I am going to push for $380k because I know that is more likely to get the deal done (and me paid) than if the price is $420k.[quote]

Yes and no. You don’t want to push for too low of a price, because then the deal won’t get done because the seller will refuse. You don’t want to push for too high a price because the buyer may refuse.

Buyer’s agents walk the fine line between the two. They try to talk the seller down and the buyer up, to varying degrees depending on the individual.

The best buyer’s agents strike a wise balance, knowing that the true benefit to their actions comes from future sales from referrals.

Sadly there are plenty of not-so-wise buyer’s agents. I dealt with one that constantly pressured me to compromise my position in order to get the deal done.

However, they generally do not push for higher price to earn more commission. If anything, they push for higher price in order to get any commission at all!

[Fearful]

[quote=urbanrealtor]If I know the commission is $10k no matter what, I am going to push for $380k because I know that is more likely to get the deal done (and me paid) than if the price is $420k.[/quote]

You don’t want to push for too low of a price, because then the deal won’t get done because the seller will refuse. You don’t want to push for too high a price because the buyer may refuse.

Buyer’s agents walk the fine line between the two. They try to talk the seller down and the buyer up, to varying degrees depending on the individual.

The best buyer’s agents strike a wise balance, knowing that the true benefit to their actions comes from future sales from referrals.

Sadly there are plenty of not-so-wise buyer’s agents. I dealt with one that constantly pressured me to compromise my position in order to get the deal done.

However, they generally do not push for higher price to earn more commission. If anything, they push for higher price in order to get any commission at all!

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Fearful][quote=urbanrealtor]If I know the commission is $10k no matter what, I am going to push for $380k because I know that is more likely to get the deal done (and me paid) than if the price is $420k.[/quote]

You don’t want to push for too low of a price, because then the deal won’t get done because the seller will refuse. You don’t want to push for too high a price because the buyer may refuse.

Buyer’s agents walk the fine line between the two. They try to talk the seller down and the buyer up, to varying degrees depending on the individual.

The best buyer’s agents strike a wise balance, knowing that the true benefit to their actions comes from future sales from referrals.

Sadly there are plenty of not-so-wise buyer’s agents. I dealt with one that constantly pressured me to compromise my position in order to get the deal done.

However, they generally do not push for higher price to earn more commission. If anything, they push for higher price in order to get any commission at all![/quote]
Your points are well-taken. Recently, I was brought in by a buyer who was firing his agent. In the end, he told several mutual acquaintances (we know each other socially) that I was not aggressive enough. This was frustrating to me because I never had the chance to negotiate. I was brought in after the deal was fully in contract. The buyer wanted to walk it back significantly but there really is no way to do that barring the foundation being powder. It definitely taught me a lesson about managing expectations.

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