People who can’t afford their house but get to keep it?!

[markmax33]

I have a buddy in the Sacramento area that has refused to move out of his house. The bank has screwed up several times. In California, if you stay in the house for 5 years you get squater’s rights and get to keep the home! He’s really close. I wonder how this will start to force the foreclosure process to come to a head in a few years as more of these people start to approach the 5 year mark!

[sdrealtor]

Tell your friend Casey we said hi

[Coronita]

hi

[briansd1]

[quote=bearishgurl] [quote=briansd1]The “special treatment” you mentioned was made possible by irrational exuberance, the blind faith that markets were rational in the aggregate, and the belief that banks had institutional controls setup to prevent fraud.[/quote]

I disagree. The special treatment was made possible by political decisions from TPTB to fund the Big Banks and other institutional lenders so they could afford to “coddle” into oblivion the most irresponsible borrowers under the guise of “allowing them to remain in their homes,” even if those homes were clearly out of their league both now and at the time of purchase.

[/quote]

Bailing out the banks was the main goal.

The facts that homeowners who bought or refinanced at the peak got some concessions is just collateral damage.

Banks are holding properties off the market to prevent prices from cratering further. The banks are really serving themselves.

Since you’re worried about your own property value, you should be grateful.

[briansd1]

[quote=markmax33]I have a buddy in the Sacramento area that has refused to move out of his house. The bank has screwed up several times. In California, if you stay in the house for 5 years you get squater’s rights and get to keep the home! He’s really close. I wonder how this will start to force the foreclosure process to come to a head in a few years as more of these people start to approach the 5 year mark![/quote]

Tell him that to get adverse possession in California, he has to pay the property taxes on a timely basis for 5 years. The law is different in different states.

[markmax33]

yeah he’s been doing that. He has to do like 4 things including taxes, improve the property, etc.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=UCGal]An actual example that fits your criteria. A friend had a horse property near escondido. (literally right outside the city bounds). They improved the barn and corrals. They put on a new roof on the house. They never took money out. When they got divorced and needed to sell, the market wasn’t good (mid 90’s). But they were divorcing and the property needed to be disposed of. They had to bring cash to closing. They lost their down payment and their investment (corals, barn, new roof).[/quote]

This doesn’t fit my “criteria.” It was clearly a “distress sale” in a down market (mid 90’s). These sellers didn’t have a choice. They HAD to sell their property at that time. The owners I’m discussing here DO have choices.

[quote=UCGal]Sellers either are willing to price to market and sell, or are pricing to high and have it not sell.
There’s a home for sale on my street. It’s been on the market since spring. It’s not selling because the equity sellers are pricing too high. They have made nice improvements (new roof, windows, landscaping, cosmetic stuff inside.) They want to pull out their investment and won’t sell for less than that. It’s been on the market a while and is not moving.[/quote]

Exactly. It’s not moving because these sellers obviously have a choice. They have “tested the current market” and are not satisfied with the offers that came in. Their languishing “test-listing” is not hurting anyone and they are free to remove it from the market and likely will. That’s what I’m talking about here. Piggs who think they’re going to “steal” a well-maintained, well-located property with equity such as your neighbor’s are delusional. The vast majority of these “would-be sellers” can last into oblivion and re-list when market conditions suit them.

[quote=UCGal]There’s distress in my zip. But it’s mostly in condos. The bubble drove prices up (and down) everywhere. There was a short sale across the street from me. Previous owners had heloc’d the heck out of the house. There are no exempt areas.[/quote]

Agree there are no exempt areas but condos in your area are NOT competition for your SFR. The ONE SS you mention here was a “distress sale.” Again, these sellers had NO CHOICE but to sell short or lose the property to foreclosure.

[quote=UCGal]Not that it’s any of your business… I paid MARKET value for my house. If you had known my dad you’d know that this is the way he worked. The advantage I got was the prop 13. I will not deny that.

Since then I’ve been aggressively putting money towards retiring our mortgage. My debt reduction is not “my money”. It’s not cash. It’s not spendable. I made a choice to exchange money (liquid) towards retiring my mortgage on an illiquid asset. But I will have a fully paid for asset that provides shelter for my family. It may turn out to be a bad decision if hyper inflation happens. I will accept that.[/quote]

I understand, UCGal. I have a few relatives just like your dad :=0

However, you must admit that saving roughly $6K per year in property taxes enables you to retire your mtg much sooner! Not sure how long you have owned your current residence but multiply that many years by +/-$6K and that’s how much you had available to retire your mtg sooner, if you wished. The rest of us poor shmucks (who don’t have Prop 13 treatment on our assessment) are currently trying to cobble together our tax installments for this Monday based upon a current “market rate” assessment.

It is what it is. I don’t begrudge people who get this benefit. My 88-yr old neighbors (house pd off a few decades now) are able to afford a weekly landscaper and a new tall fence this year because of their “Prop 13” assessment. I appreciate looking at their well-carved shrubbery and their frontage is an asset to the neighborhood. They are a shining example of what Prop 13 was originally enacted to help :=]

[quote=UCGal]I understand you’re frustrated. But you need to understand that “your money” was gone when you entered escrow. You have title to a house that is only worth what it is worth. Fair or not, that is fact. External factors DO impact the price. That is life.[/quote]

I’m not disagreeing with any of this. The point I’m trying to make here is that the “choice” properties in the “best hands” are not going to move in the near future if their values are artificially held down by the mistakes and greed of the irresponsible masses.

Why is this?? Because the longtime, responsible owners have “choices” on when to sell and whether to sell. If the “squat failed-mod” and “squat failed-SS” inventory isn’t cleared up soon and resold by lenders forthwith for whatever prices it will bear so we can begin to rise up out of this abyss, the only inventory a “working-stiff” buyer will have to choose from will be distressed inventory (not usually the most well-located and heavily encumbered with MR and/or HOA).

If you watch the short CNBC video I provided here you will note that this “artificial depression of values” is currently happening in well-established areas of many major cities throughout the US, NOT just SD County. Lender malaise is the sole reason why.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=sdrealtor]Tell your friend Casey we said hi[/quote]

LOL…

[bearishgurl]

[quote=sdrealtor]What are you talking about? You asked me to name tracts built in the last decade in top school districts and I answered your question. Then you twist off on some tangent. The properties in NCC built during that era havent held their values….they have soared in value. If that home in Lexington was built 2 years earlier (10 yrs ago) it would have sold for closer to 700K and would have doubled by now. …

Even homes in SEH built in 2001 and 2002 which is not a top school district, has big MR and has HOA fees but you get nothing but some common areas with signage on them have not lost value…[/quote]

You referred to $1M+ property in Carmel Valley. That isn’t in “Nirvana.” Unlike “Gridlocked Nirvana,” Carmel Valley is actually conveniently located.

SEH is also not in “Nirvana.” However, I will concede that its public schools scored as good or better than “Nirvana” in the 10/11 STAR and CAHSEE exams …

[Anonymous]

Can adverse possession be used to obtain a property you already own?

I doubt it.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=briansd1]…Since you’re worried about your own property value, you should be grateful.[/quote]

Well, brian, it’s not quite time for me to “worry” yet. The fat lady still has to give her encores. I’m finding myself NOT grateful because this “failed debacle” has been going on for far too long. A crash in ’07/08 with subsequent mass REO’s being marketed would have taken care of 90% of this problem in short order. At that time, all the bottom-fishing REITs and other private investors would have swarmed in and bought up multiple SFR and condo properties in the same area and would have been able to house many of these “former squatters” so they didn’t even have to leave their neighborhood of choice! Instead, it is nearly 4 yrs later and here we are! Still fvcking around with all these properties titled in the wrong hands. It doesn’t bode well for anyone’s property values who either owns property nearby huge swaths of these “distressed” areas or the properties in these heavily distressed areas are in direct competition for buyers with their more stable, established area.

[briansd1]

[quote=pri_dk]Can adverse possession be used to obtain a property you already own?

I doubt it.[/quote]

Good point.

I believe that in California the statute of limitation on debt collection is 4 years from the date of breach.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=sdrealtor]Cant beleive I missed this crazy thought. Who cares what kind of windows you put in and how much you paid. Have you forgotten your RE mantra….location, location, location. Thats what determines value. Put those windows and gold plate them on a house in Detroit and tell me you should get that money back.[/quote]

Have you actually read my posts???

[quote=]…Owners don’t expect to recoup all their home-improvement monies. They expect improvements to help them sell faster and expect to recoup a portion of “prudent” improvements (that is, improvements made that are appropriate for the area’s values)…[/quote]

[quote=]…One could posture from this opinion that ALL properties first sold PRIOR to the “FB era” and were not intentionally overmortgaged by their longtime owners should sell for enough to recover the money their owners put in them, given their improvements were “appropriate” for their areas…[/quote]

In the case of “Andersen wood windows,” the words “appropriate” and “prudent” means the property is located in MH …. or PL, for example. For the record, I have (top-quality) vinyl windows.

sdr, why don’t you do us all a favor and go and recycle all those empty “two-buck chuck” bottles lying around your office and switch to black coffee today, ‘kay? Just look outside your door … That “regular” dude with his shopping cart is standing outside waiting to collect …

[briansd1]

[quote=bearishgurl] The point I’m trying to make here is that the “choice” properties in the “best hands” are not going to move in the near future if their values are artificially held down by the mistakes and greed of the irresponsible masses. [/quote]

I disagree that any market price is “artificial”. It’s the real price at that time.

There is a price to pay for waiting. First, you’re not getting any younger and the money you could have accessed to enjoy life is locked up, so you have to restrain yourself in other areas.

Look at Japan, 21 years after their peak, the Japanese vigor is gone. Many areas outside the urban cores have not recovered in value. The Nikkei’s peak was 38,000. Now it’s at about 8,700.

You don’t see Japanese tourists traveling the world and enjoying life as much anymore. The Japanese signs have disappeared in favor of Chinese.

I’m not saying that America will suffer the same fate, but we could experience an extended malaise.

[sdrealtor]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=sdrealtor]What are you talking about? You asked me to name tracts built in the last decade in top school districts and I answered your question. Then you twist off on some tangent. The properties in NCC built during that era havent held their values….they have soared in value. If that home in Lexington was built 2 years earlier (10 yrs ago) it would have sold for closer to 700K and would have doubled by now. …

Even homes in SEH built in 2001 and 2002 which is not a top school district, has big MR and has HOA fees but you get nothing but some common areas with signage on them have not lost value…[/quote]

You referred to $1M+ property in Carmel Valley. That isn’t in “Nirvana.” Unlike “Gridlocked Nirvana,” Carmel Valley is actually conveniently located.

SEH is also not in “Nirvana.” However, I will concede that its public schools scored as good or better than “Nirvana” in the 10/11 STAR and CAHSEE exams …[/quote]

Its not the buyers who are delusional, its the SELLERS!!! The values are determined by current market conditions which arent great. The sellers are deluding themselves that their house is worth more because it once was but it may not be again in their lifetimes.

Like I said, I could provide examples all day. Here is another from the heart of my gridlocked nirvana. 3040 Camino Serbal just closed for $1M in September. They paid 633k in 2001 (that the last decade). Not much put into it other than landscaping. Lets be generous and call it 50K so cost base of 688K. Thats a 45% appreciation on another higher end home. The elementary school is the top one in NCC. It has both MR and an HOA. How many more do you want to see?

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