Paying off Mello Roos

[all]

[quote=earlyretirement]
Yes, I am aware of the original plans for that Golf Course but as mentioned, I doubt that will ever happen. I do understand it was cancelled but I didn’t know if you were trying to imply it was a possibility for the future.

As far as the 300 room hotel. Where is that supposed to go? I’m not sure about the financing plan for 2013 but it’s already September 2013. Where do they propose to do that?[/quote]
No, I don’t think they will put the north golf course back in plan. If you look at the map you can see the intended location and it does not look like anything is replacing it.

2013 financing plan just lists the hotel as a TBD item, it was not supposed to be completed during 2013FY. The plan was last amended in 2009 and it is available here.
The senior center you mentioned earlier is in the plan – look at the map on p.34 and p.47. The employment center is supposed to go right next to the shopping center, all the way to the north.

I can’t locate the hotel on any of the maps. Based on the available info it will likely go in the far eastern corner of the north village – across the street from Ivy Gate and Oak Valley middle school.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=UCGal]BG –
Once again you assume that because it doesn’t fit your personal wishes/lifestyle/demographic – it’s invalid.

Yes – you’re a baby boomer looking towards retirement. Yes – you do a lot of work downtown. Yes – you’ve only got one child left at home – soon to fly the nest. So for you – southbay is a good fit for your needs. That doesn’t make it the ideal spot for others, with different needs.

Not everyone buying houses is a baby boomer nearing retirement. In fact, I would assume that many home buyers are folks with minor age children, or planning on having children in the future. Most baby boomers have already purchased their primary home… although some might be looking for retirement homes to downsize to.

BG – you need to remember there are job centers outside of downtown. Sorrento Valley/sorrento mesa is a huge employment center. Probably more folks working there than downtown. (Based on traffic I’m pretty certain this is true.) Carlsbad has quite a few businesses/industries. The I-15 corridor from Scripps Ranch up through Rancho Bernardo has a number of large employers. Folks who work in these areas would not be well served by having a commute to the southbay.

True – the legal stuff is downtown because of the courthouse and jails – and that’s the field you’re in. But there are other industries in San Diego county – so living close to downtown might not do anything for your commute if you work in Carlsbad.

Please try to remember that not all home buyers have the same needs/wants that you do. I get frustrated by the way you attack folks who have different views.[/quote]

Uhh, except that you yourself have minor children and chose not to buy within a CFD, UCGal. You’re one of many thousands of parents who chose not to voluntarily pay this tax. As KPBS keeps telling us, “Mello Roos is the tax you choose.” In fact, you have stated here repeatedly that you are sending your kids to those dreaded (gasp!) SD City Schools. That’s all I’ve been saying here. There are many, many areas for housing choices in SD County but the main posters here (defending the “corrupt” mgmt of their own CFD’s?) make it sound to the public as if one has minor children that they are “forced” to pay MR to “get good schools.” It would have been more accurate for them to state that they were “forced” to pay MR to “get new schools.” We all know that the age of a school has nothing to do with the quality of education offered within it.

UCGal, I don’t know where you are seeing anywhere on this forum that I have been trying to “sell” south county. There are newer-developed areas in South County which have the exact same problems as those in North County! I actually tell people to stay away from them!

I know exactly where all the job centers are. I was HERE when they were all but a twinkle in a developer’s eye and began with just one cul-de-sac, remember?

The whole jist of my posts on this thread were that every buyer has a different list of requirements for their next home. It was just the opposite of my own wants and needs (fwiw, I don’t need a 1/2 AC+ lot and only have one vehicle to park). A mcmansion located six feet from the next one in a high-priced subdivision encumbered with high MR and high HOA dues is NOT a one-size-fits-all solution for every buyer, not even for every buyer in the $1M+ range.

ER, correct me if I’m wrong, but I understood you to state here that you were SURE that EVERY prospective buyer in SD County in the $1M+ range would fall head over heels for your house when they became aware that you prepaid your MR and would be glad to compensate you in your sales price for your prepayment. And no matter where their target shopping area was located, they could be “drawn” and “led” by their agent/broker to your listing because of this fact.

***

I DO believe ER can get reimbursed for his MR prepayment NOW upon sale but I think if he has been getting unsolicited offers for over $300K more than he paid for the property (1.5 yrs ago?), then those offers have much more to do with his extensive (interior and exterior?) rehab of it and the fact that the market has gone up since he bought it than the fact that he prepaid his MR. In other words, he may have gotten some of the same offers if he DIDN’T prepay his MR strictly due to demand for SantaLuz and the dearth of current decent listings behind his gate.

Oh, and btw, folks, there are several threads on this forum detailing the travails of homeowners lamenting their continuous reptile encroachment in that “outer-lizardia” (spdrun’s words, however fitting) bastion here in SD County known as Stonebridge.

I have a suggestion. Maybe that nice local power station y’all have out there can serve double-duty as a reptile eradicator. Just gather all your reptiles up from your neighbors one by one in plastic trash cans, drop them at the base of the station, crack open a cold one and sit and watch them fry while they crawl up the pipes!

zzzzzzzzzz

That’s your “free” solution, that is, until a whole new crop of them hatch and the cycle repeats, lol.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=UCGal]BG –

ER, correct me if I’m wrong, but I understood you to state here that you were SURE that EVERY prospective buyer in SD County in the $1M+ range would fall head over heels for your house when they became aware that you prepaid your MR and would be glad to compensate you in your sales price for your prepayment. And no matter where their target shopping area was located, they could be “drawn” and “led” by their agent/broker to your listing because of this fact.

.[/quote]

No, that’s not what I said nor implied. Not even close.

[quote=all]

No, I don’t think they will put the north golf course back in plan. If you look at the map you can see the intended location and it does not look like anything is replacing it.

2013 financing plan just lists the hotel as a TBD item, it was not supposed to be completed during 2013FY. The plan was last amended in 2009 and it is available here.
The senior center you mentioned earlier is in the plan – look at the map on p.34 and p.47. The employment center is supposed to go right next to the shopping center, all the way to the north.

I can’t locate the hotel on any of the maps. Based on the available info it will likely go in the far eastern corner of the north village – across the street from Ivy Gate and Oak Valley middle school.[/quote]

I still say that hotel probably never ever happens. I could be wrong but I just can’t see it. It IS amazing watching the growth of new home developments in that area. Wow, the recovery was sure quick and I know several people that bought 2nd properties in that back development and in Del Sur. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Yes, that senior center has always been zoned for that type of facility. Actually I think it could be a good idea because many families in the area have older parents and they might not want them living with them but want them very close.

Plus that plot of land isn’t too big and there aren’t too many options there and the field is just empty and ugly with weeds growing on. It’s sitting right next to the school (Willow Grove). Of course I need to hear more about it and get some specific questions answered but I don’t think it’s a bad idea and could even possibly be interested in the far future in utilizing it for family.

I think an even better use of that land however would be for Willow Grove to expand and build some more classrooms. There is HUGE demand for enrollment there and always more kids that want to get in and more and more young families moving to the area. Something like 53 kids didn’t get into Kindergarten here this school year. And there are already 5 Kindergarten classes there now.

I get sick when I read about OUR CFD taxes that we pay being used in schools in NON-CFD areas! If PUSD has a problem spending the money, they could investigate the feasibility of getting this land and expanding the school. That would be a GREAT use of funds!

I’m not sure how feasible it would be (probably impossible) but I think a better use of this land would be to expand Willow Grove so more families that live in the area can send their kids to school here rather than drive to other areas. The school is amazing and one of the BEST Elementary schools in the State. I can’t tell you how thrilled I am with that school.

Quick question for those of you that have been living here for a while? That back road on Winecreek Road, was it always a gated community? I don’t recall a few years ago there being a gate around the community. Is that new or has that always been there?

I remember back in 2010 there were many houses in severe distress back there and the sales prices were very low relative to the lot and home sizes. I believe that is where Romney’s son bought a place. Has that always been gated? I tried driving around there the other day and saw it gated. Is that new? Thanks in advance.

[all]

[quote=earlyretirement]
Quick question for those of you that have been living here for a while? That back road on Winecreek Road, was it always a gated community? I don’t recall a few years ago there being a gate around the community. Is that new or has that always been there?

I remember back in 2010 there were many houses in severe distress back there and the sales prices were very low relative to the lot and home sizes. I believe that is where Romney’s son bought a place. Has that always been gated? I tried driving around there the other day and saw it gated. Is that new? Thanks in advance.[/quote]

The subdivision is named Ivy Gate. Yes, it was gated since the day one. Romney (Matt?) owns there. Another son of Mitt’s lives in the area, possibly the same subdivision and they have few relatives in 4S.

The hotel probably makes less sense with no golf course, but they will try to build something and I am not sure how easy it is to make major changes in the plan.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=all][quote=earlyretirement]
Quick question for those of you that have been living here for a while? That back road on Winecreek Road, was it always a gated community? I don’t recall a few years ago there being a gate around the community. Is that new or has that always been there?

I remember back in 2010 there were many houses in severe distress back there and the sales prices were very low relative to the lot and home sizes. I believe that is where Romney’s son bought a place. Has that always been gated? I tried driving around there the other day and saw it gated. Is that new? Thanks in advance.[/quote]

The subdivision is named Ivy Gate. Yes, it was gated since the day one. Romney (Matt?) owns there. Another son of Mitt’s lives in the area, possibly the same subdivision and they have few relatives in 4S.

The hotel probably makes less sense with no golf course, but they will try to build something and I am not sure how easy it is to make major changes in the plan.[/quote]

Thanks all for taking the time to answer. Ah ok that’s good to know it’s always been gated. I was always curious how it was back there. Because during the downfall I remember looking at Google Maps and even some for sale listings had these HUGE yards and the owners couldn’t even afford to landscape them! I remember back in 2009 and 2010 there were listings for them with barren lots.

There were some STEALS back then. I remember seeing some HUGE houses in the $1 million range. People that picked them up at the lows must be happy. The area is really great but I was always curious how it was back there.

Here are a few houses I remember seeing for sale but I never got a chance to check them out because I found a property.

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/10239-Winecreek-Ct-92127/home/7524615

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/10239-Winecreek-Ct-San-Diego-CA-92127/69022036_zpid/

5,361 sq. feet Sold on May 13, 2011 for $1,050,000. Previous sale was July 11, 2006 for $1,583,000.

It was a short sale. Zillow’s estimate has it worth $1.7+ million now!

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/9910-Winecrest-Rd-92127/home/12153529

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/9910-Winecrest-Rd-San-Diego-CA-92127/79570051_zpid/

4,205 sq. feet. Sold on July 28, 2011 for $1.1 million. Previous sale was March 2, 2007 for $1.463 million.

Zillow estimate for $1.493 million now.

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/10240-Winecreek-Ct-92127/home/7524625

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/10240-Winecreek-Ct-San-Diego-CA-92127/69022044_zpid/

Zillow Estimate now $1.319 million.

Exactly correct about the NO hotel without the golf course. I just don’t see the hotel happening. Not now not ever.

[all]

[quote=earlyretirement]
There were some STEALS back then. I remember seeing some HUGE houses in the $1 million range. People that picked them up at the lows must be happy. The area is really great but I was always curious how it was back there. [/quote]

I made a couple of offers in 2008-2009. The lady of the house thought we would be stretching, the area is not walkable and it would be too much hassle to maintain the house and the yard, so I gave up.

[bearishgurl]

ER, you’ve made my point for me. If “zillow” values are actually correct, the old listings the on three links you just posted are now almost equal to (or beyond) “millenium boom prices,” regardless of the amount of MR still owed on them. They went back up because their micromarket shot up in price in the ensuing couple of years. This (partially) explains the amounts of your recent unsolicited offers.

A property being sold way below market as a short sale also has a tendency to shoot up in value after purchased/cleaned up a little.

Congrats, ER! MR paid off or not, you apparently purchased in an area of high demand. It will be interesting to see if this level of demand keeps up if the majority of properties begin listing (and selling) for OVER $1.5M and stay there.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=all][quote=earlyretirement]
There were some STEALS back then. I remember seeing some HUGE houses in the $1 million range. People that picked them up at the lows must be happy. The area is really great but I was always curious how it was back there. [/quote]

I made a couple of offers in 2008-2009. The lady of the house thought we would be stretching, the area is not walkable and it would be too much hassle to maintain the house and the yard, so I gave up.[/quote]

Yeah, I agree about the area not being too walkable. We do enjoy riding our bikes quite a bit. The things that turned me off was the proximity to the school there. I imagined that traffic would back up in the afternoon on Carmel Valley Road/Bernardo Center Drive and indeed I do notice that there are TONS of cars at the end of the day when parents are picking up their kids.

Also, I did NOT want or need a HUGE lot like that. Some of those houses are on 1/2 to 1 acre spreads and that was actually a huge turn off to me to have to maintain a yard like that. To me more important was access and close proximately to great parks and playgrounds so Santaluz worked out PERFECTLY for my family.

The weather is pretty incredible in this area however as you avoid the marine layering yet you avoid the hotter temperatures a bit further beyond passing I-15. Best as I can tell those people that bought did VERY well. Picking up houses like that at the time and the prices they did will pay for a lot of water to water the huge yards. LOL.

How was the quality of construction of the houses all? Was any of it custom homes or was it lower end nothing special stuff like some of what is in 4S Ranch? From some of the listings I remember the houses look like they used good materials and they looked really nice. Quality of construction looked solid although I didn’t see any of the houses in person so I was always curious. It didn’t appear to be the cookie cutter type house that so much of the area has.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=bearishgurl]ER, you’ve made my point for me. If “zillow” values are actually correct, the old listings the on three links you just posted are now almost equal to (or beyond) “millenium boom prices,” regardless of the amount of MR still owed on them. They went back up because their micromarket shot up in price in the ensuing couple of years. This (partially) explains the amounts of your recent unsolicited offers.

A property being sold way below market as a short sale also has a tendency to shoot up in value after purchased/cleaned up a little.

Congrats, ER! MR paid off or not, you apparently purchased in an area of high demand. It will be interesting to see if this level of demand keeps up if the majority of properties begin listing (and selling) for OVER $1.5M and stay there.[/quote]

Hi BG. If anything many houses in my area the Zillow prices are actually low. For example, a recent house in my area sold in a few hours and they sold it $150,000 more than the Zillow estimate.

The recent unsolicited offers for my house do NOT account for the $150,000 I spent in renovations. One of the people that offered on it actually saw it while it was for sale before I bought it. They since had another baby. But the other 2 never saw the inside of it and never will as the house was never for sale while I owned it. The person that did see it never saw it with all the renovations we did in it.

I’m not sure how prices will do in the future. But honestly I don’t really care too much. They could fall back down and I wouldn’t really care as I plan to stay in the house. It could also go up to $2 million and I still wouldn’t sell as we have the house perfect how we want it.

I don’t want to move again for a long long time. 🙂 But if we ever see a downfall like we saw before I won’t make the mistake again of not picking up another house or 2 for investment properties. That was one of the dumbest moves that I didn’t take advantage of.

I KNEW property values would go back up but I missed out. I did make a few offers on properties in Carmel Valley but I wasn’t going to get into a bidding war or pay more than asking prices. I got beat on a few with cash offers.

Oh well..hindsight is 20/20 as they say. I guess you can’t win them all. I’ve done extremely well over the years with real estate plays and timing the real estate market.

[bearishgurl]

Oh, I understand all that, ER. You’ve stated here repeatedly that your current residence will likely be your “forever home.”

I wasn’t sure whether your improvements were visible from the exterior of your property … or not. I surmised you had spent at least $100K on them because of your various descriptions here on what you installed.

My point is (as I stated much earlier in this thread), that I don’t think anyone can really predict whether paid-off MR will actually improve the ultimate sales price of a property over recent comparable sales. In any case, buyers who have to get mortgages have lenders who will have appraisals done and if the agreed-upon sales price exceeds the appraisal, the lender will only loan the buyer(s) what they are qualified to borrow and only up to a certain LTV. So these buyers may very well have to make up the difference to the sellers from their pockets if seller won’t lower their price down to their buyer’s appraisal amt. If they cannot do so, they will have to back out.

Prepaid MR might make a property more saleable and sell much faster than the sea of listings around them which still owe MR. Whether or not that translates into any more money for sellers who prepaid MR is anyone’s guess.

In your case, it doesn’t matter because your pay-off was deeply discounted from what you would have had to pay your CFD(s) over the long haul had you not retired your MRs. And you will certainly own the property longer than the break-even point which I think you stated was ~10 years. So you prepaid you MRs strictly to benefit yourself.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=bearishgurl]Oh, I understand all that, ER. You’ve stated here repeatedly that your current residence will likely be your “forever home.”

I wasn’t sure whether your improvements were visible from the exterior of your property … or not. I surmised you had spent at least $100K on them because of your various descriptions here on what you installed.

My point is (as I stated much earlier in this thread), that I don’t think anyone can really predict whether paid-off MR will actually improve the ultimate sales price of a property over recent comparable sales. In any case, buyers who have to get mortgages have lenders who will have appraisals done and if the agreed-upon sales price exceeds the appraisal, the lender will only loan the buyer(s) what they are qualified to borrow and only up to a certain LTV. So these buyers may very well have to make up the difference to the sellers from their pockets if seller won’t lower their price down to their buyer’s appraisal amt. If they cannot do so, they will have to back out.

Prepaid MR might make a property more saleable and sell much faster than the sea of listings around them which still owe MR. Whether or not that translates into any more money for sellers who prepaid MR is anyone’s guess.

In your case, it doesn’t matter because your pay-off was deeply discounted from what you would have had to pay your CFD(s) over the long haul had you not retired your MRs. And you will certainly own the property longer than the break-even point which I think you stated was ~10 years. So you prepaid you MRs strictly to benefit yourself.[/quote]

Hi BG. The only thing you could spot from the outside is we totally re landscaped our yard so you can see that. But I live in a gated community so it’s not like anyone from the public could even see it. Everything else was all done inside.

And interestingly enough, before Google Maps had Street View of the streets here as I think a Google car snuck in. But complaints to Google got them TOTALLY removed so you can’t see the street view anymore from the streets in my community.

When I bought my house a few years ago I COULD see the street view which was really a great benefit. But so many people in my hood complained to Google for privacy reasons and legally they should NOT have entered so they had to remove it.

Oh yeah, we actually did quite a bit of work. My wife is glad to be done. I’m always wanting to do more! I just decided I will renovate the interior of the garage to make it really nice. That is one thing she doesn’t mind! I’m having California Closets come out next week to give a quote on really getting it super organized.

I actually TOTALLY agree with you that NO ONE should be paying off their Mello Roos to try to improve their resale value or in the hopes of more easily selling their house. That I don’t agree with at all. I think it only makes sense for pure ROI principles.

I totally agree with you there. There are NO guarantees at all about that. What I am guaranteed is that I have a good and guaranteed ROI paying off my CFD’s and totally remove the possibility that I’ll get stuck dealing with extensions in the future. It’s a great feeling to me and well worth it.

[Clueless]

We try to pay off our MR with an address at CV but the answer we got today was that we can’t prepaid. It was a 30 yr bond with a mature year in 2033 and potential extension into 2043. We want to pay off now since we plan to stay here forever. Very unhappy with how the bond was structured.

Early retirement- you seems to know a lot about MR payoff. Could we contact you to get some advice?

[earlyretirement]

[quote=Clueless]We try to pay off our MR with an address at CV but the answer we got today was that we can’t prepaid. It was a 30 yr bond with a mature year in 2033 and potential extension into 2043. We want to pay off now since we plan to stay here forever. Very unhappy with how the bond was structured.

Early retirement- you seems to know a lot about MR payoff. Could we contact you to get some advice?[/quote]

Clueless,

Which specific CFD # was it? Who did you call about it? Who did you talk to specifically?

I wouldn’t say I know a lot about Mello Roos taxes. I did prepay it off and happy to help if I can in anyway. But I’d ask you to also post about it here so others can benefit from the information and your experience.

Feel free to PM me but can you also answer here which CFD # it is and those other answers to those questions?

[Clueless]

CFD 99-1 for carmel valley schools is the one I try to pay off.

Dolinka Group answered my request timely and sent me the doc without charge. They were very good in returning my call. I checked on website and found John Addleman should be the contact person, but an associate answered me instead. In the doc, there is a prevision on prepaid term. One has to do it before the house was built. Does not make any sense to me. That is why I want to get your expert’s opinion.

I will PM you tomorrow.

Thanks.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=Clueless]CFD 99-1 for carmel valley schools is the one I try to pay off.

Dolinka Group answered my request timely and sent me the doc without charge. They were very good in returning my call. I checked on website and found John Addleman should be the contact person, but an associate answered me instead. In the doc, there is a prevision on prepaid term. One has to do it before the house was built. Does not make any sense to me. That is why I want to get your expert’s opinion.

I will PM you tomorrow.

Thanks.[/quote]

When you say “they sent you the doc” which document are you referring to? I assume you mean, he sent you instructions to pay off your CFD? Or did he send you some other paperwork referring to CFD #99-1?

Can you cite the exact provision regarding the prepayment term? Or was that only something he told you verbally? If he told you verbally, call back and ask them to cite the exact verbage and clause regarding the prepayment. As well, ask them to cite exactly which paragraph it is located at. If you have that, PM me and I’ll take a look at it.

I’ve been mentioning here for a while that I do believe that some of the various CFD’s will ban prepayment in the future. And ultimately if you look at that it’s because it’s for THEIR advantage….NOT ours as taxpayers. Which in and of itself tells you quite a bit regarding if you should pay it off or not.

“Potential extension until 2043”. Yeah right! No Thanks!!!

[Author]

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