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NotCranky.
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April 1, 2012 at 2:05 PM #740967April 1, 2012 at 2:08 PM #740968
Allan from Fallbrook
Participant[quote=briansd1]
Zimmerman is White. If you know Hispanic culture, you would understand. There are difference shades of Hispanics and a long history too.
[/quote]Brian: No, Zimmerman is not white. See Ruben Navarette’s article on the media creation of the “White Hispanic”: http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/29/opinion/navarrette-white-hispanic/index.html?hpt=op_t1
April 1, 2012 at 2:26 PM #740969Anonymous
Guest[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Obama CHOSE to involve himself in this situation and CHOSE to personalize it by remarking on how Trayvon looked like him. Doesn’t get more personal than that, does it? All the while remaining TOTALLY silent about the real scourge of blacks in America (which, BTW, isn’t dimwitted half-white neighborhood watch idiots).[/quote]
Wow, you just keep digging deeper, and have your facts completely wrong.
Yeah, when asked about this specific incident during a press conference with a completely unrelated subject (the IMF), you say Obama should have ignored the question and taken the opportunity to lecture his fellow brothas about not acting like punks.
God forbid he show a little empathy toward other parents.
Nah, I’m sure you are right, Obama had some underhanded motive. There’s just no way it could have simply been the natural reaction of a parent. I mean Obama’s not really an American, he’s not a Christian, he’s not legitimately the president, so I’m sure he’s not a caring father either.
Next time I hear a parent say “that could have been my child” about any tragic incident, I’ll know that they are probably just trying to score points.
Yup, it’s all a ploy to get votes. I have no idea how it could actually help win votes, but I’m sure your unstated news sources will provide you with a contrived explanation.
And let’s make sure we don’t talk about the actual story. Let’s keep talking about the people who are talking about the story.
April 1, 2012 at 2:47 PM #740970ocrenter
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=briansd1]
Zimmerman is White. If you know Hispanic culture, you would understand. There are difference shades of Hispanics and a long history too.
[/quote]Brian: No, Zimmerman is not white. See Ruben Navarette’s article on the media creation of the “White Hispanic”: http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/29/opinion/navarrette-white-hispanic/index.html?hpt=op_t1%5B/quote%5D
Of course there are white Hispanics, it is not a media creation, certainly it was not created by this event.
In Latin America, the white elite completely dominate every aspect of the society at large. Have you seen the Mexican soaps and the commercials? The actors and actresses are lilly white! The politicians too. This a very real and powerful group of minorities that have continued to subjugate their brown skinned countrymen for centuries.
Just because Hispanics immigrate to this country doesn’t mean that color divide goes away.
But again, we are off topic. This case does have a racial element, but the racial element involves the cops, not Zimmerman.
April 1, 2012 at 6:55 PM #740975CA renter
Participant[quote=zk][quote=svelte]This is not a clear cut case.
Rodney King, with the beating caught on tape, that was clear cut.
[/quote]
I wouldn’t call the Rodney King case clear cut at all. The beating was caught on tape, but not what led up to it. King throwing two officers at a time off his back and charging them. A strong, enraged, violent man on the attack. That wasn’t shown on the tape.[/quote]
Exactly. Believe it or not, the portion of the altercation that would have been in favor of the cops WAS on tape, but the media didn’t show it. I was living in LA at the time and followed this case very closely. 99.99999% of the time, you saw the footage that showed the cops beating on Rodney King. Only once did I see a longer clip that showed the entire incident in a VERY different light. It showed the cops desperately trying to restrain Rodney King, but King kept getting back up and lunging at the cops. This tape showed Rodney King rearing up (arching back, as he was face down on the ground) and literally throwing the cops off his body, then he turned and charged at them.
What was also not emphasized was that during the altercation, a female cop had her gun trained on RK, but Sgt. Koon told her to put away the gun because he didn’t want anyone getting shot.
Under no circumstances was the coverage of that case balanced in any way. While I agree that there are horrific cases of unjustifiable police brutality, this was not one of them, IMHO.
More:
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/lapdaccount.html
A play-by-play description of what was happening in the video:
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/kingvideo.html
Chief Gates:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/lapd/race/king.html
———————-What’s most astounding about the Rodney King incident is that the animals who beat and murdered totally innocent people during the riots (and then danced around and celebrated afterward), and those who torched the businesses of totally innocent people didn’t evoke the same kind of anger within the African-American community. They should have been at least as angry about these obviously racist actions as they were about the actions of the police officers who had some justification for their behavior. Rodney King was a violent, dangerous criminal, and has been nothing but trouble both before and after the incident; the innocent civilians and shopkeepers who were brutalized by these rioters were completely innocent, and they were victimized to a far greater extent than Rodney King.
April 1, 2012 at 7:36 PM #740976Aecetia
ParticipantBrian,
“The Trayvon Marting killing is interesting.” I have read enough of your posts to know what you are saying, but I think I would call it tragic, more than interesting. No good can come from this. I think what is interesting is all the commentators on both sides of the aisle and the various and assorted folks who actually profit from something like this by ginning up donations to their causes. I think it is a sick way to make a living.April 1, 2012 at 8:36 PM #740977
svelteParticipant[quote=CA renter]
(wrt Rodney King)
…Under no circumstances was the coverage of that case balanced in any way. While I agree that there are horrific cases of unjustifiable police brutality, this was not one of them, IMHO.
[/quote]From Wikipedia:
After the riots, the United States Department of Justice reinstated the investigation and obtained an indictment of violations of federal civil rights against the four officers. The federal trial focused more on the evidence as to the training of officers instead of just relying on the videotape of the incident… The jury found Officer Laurence Powell and Sergeant Stacey Koon guilty, and they were subsequently sentenced to 30 months in prison, while Timothy Wind and Theodore Briseño were acquitted of all charges.In other words, CA Renter, you are saying the conviction of the police in court was wrong.
And while I absolutely agree that the rioters should be held accountable also, law officers are granted special status and protection under the law (as they should) and with that comes a higher standard for their behavior.
April 1, 2012 at 8:41 PM #740979CardiffBaseball
ParticipantRandom points (errr incoherent ramblings)
– Friday a young black man, who no doubt could be Obama’s son, was put away for life. His crime was executing a couple of British Tourists who happened to get lost and drove down the wrong street. The parents of these young men blasted Obama for saying nothing despite three different letters having been sent.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/321429/20120329/murdered-british-tourists-attack-obama-parents.htm
– We have another young black man who was killed in Orlando, and trust me none of these grandstanders give a shit. Not a peep. How was he killed? Hazing incident back in November at the Citrus Bowl. 4-5 months now, nobody has been arrested, and you don’t see race hustlers asking why.
The Sanford chapter of the NAACP basically said Sharpton was an idiot today after his calls for increased levels of civil disobedience. The locals are saying get the F out of here, this will get resolved.
April 1, 2012 at 9:23 PM #740981Participant[quote=CardiffBaseball]Random points (errr incoherent ramblings)
– Friday a young black man, who no doubt could be Obama’s son, was put away for life. His crime was executing a couple of British Tourists who happened to get lost and drove down the wrong street. The parents of these young men blasted Obama for saying nothing despite three different letters having been sent.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/321429/20120329/murdered-british-tourists-attack-obama-parents.htm
– We have another young black man who was killed in Orlando, and trust me none of these grandstanders give a shit. Not a peep. How was he killed? Hazing incident back in November at the Citrus Bowl. 4-5 months now, nobody has been arrested, and you don’t see race hustlers asking why.
The Sanford chapter of the NAACP basically said Sharpton was an idiot today after his calls for increased levels of civil disobedience. The locals are saying get the F out of here, this will get resolved.
Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have always been loudmouthed and opportunistic @holes that do more to hurt the African American cause.
Regarding the death of the gay black student. That’s just it. These civil rights “fighters” are the worse hypocrites. In fact polls after polls consistantly show blacks and Hispanics are the worse when it comes to prejudice against the gay population. Proving time and time again victims of prejudice often become the perpetrators just so they can feel they are at least “better” than someone else.
Lastly, not sure why Obama needs to comment on the death of couple of tourists.
April 1, 2012 at 9:34 PM #740982KSMountain
Participant[quote=svelte][quote=CA renter]
(wrt Rodney King)
…Under no circumstances was the coverage of that case balanced in any way. While I agree that there are horrific cases of unjustifiable police brutality, this was not one of them, IMHO.
[/quote]From Wikipedia:
After the riots, the United States Department of Justice reinstated the investigation and obtained an indictment of violations of federal civil rights against the four officers. The federal trial focused more on the evidence as to the training of officers instead of just relying on the videotape of the incident… The jury found Officer Laurence Powell and Sergeant Stacey Koon guilty, and they were subsequently sentenced to 30 months in prison, while Timothy Wind and Theodore Briseño were acquitted of all charges.In other words, CA Renter, you are saying the conviction of the police in court was wrong.
And while I absolutely agree that the rioters should be held accountable also, law officers are granted special status and protection under the law (as they should) and with that comes a higher standard for their behavior.[/quote]
Svelte, I read the Wikipedia entry this morning in its entirety. I also skimmed the report of the independent commission (which was highly critical of LAPD). I have to say you pulled quite selectively from the wikipedia page in order to make your point.
You left out:
– King was traveling between 90 and 117 MPH westbound on the 210
– King then drove between 50 and 80 MPH on residential streets while his passengers asked him to slow down.
– King’s BAC was 0.07% 2.5 *hours* after his arrest
– King’s two passengers exited the vehicle, complied with officers instructions, laid spreadeagle on the ground, and were released that night without incident.
– King continued to get up after being Tased. Imagine your concern as an officer. What would YOU do? Should an officer have to risk injury to deal with this person and his poor, endangering decisions?
– There were 23 officers at the scene. 4 were indicted in the federal case. 2 were convicted.On a separate but related note: the morons who threw bricks on Reginald Denny’s head at Florence and Normandy didn’t even know about the King verdict. Their parents still defended them though, with signs calling them “the Denny Six” as if they had suffered some injustice.
April 1, 2012 at 10:23 PM #740983Participant[quote=KSMountain][quote=svelte]
…but once a person is in submission, the beating should not continue. Secure him and haul him in. End of story.[/quote]
King did not submit. Watch the tape (not to mention what you *can’t* see on the tape). They tell him to stay down and still so they can handcuff him and he *keeps* getting up, multiple times.I don’t support police administering a beating for “contempt of cop” or due to their own adrenaline or lack of professionalism or ego or cruelty or bravado.
But what I recall seeing on the tape is that King does NOT follow their instructions.
Multiple taser strikes might have helped, but if King died due to that there would be those who would wail in outrage.
Bottom line, if King didn’t do what he did in the hours/minutes preceding the incident, the incident would not have occurred.[/quote]
Ah, but he WAS tased…and he kept coming after the cops, unaffected. Can you imagine being a cop in those circumstances?
That’s precisely the point: the cops DID try to subdue him and cuff him, but he was violently fighting back, and kept getting up after being tased and after being hit in ways that would have taken most people down. There was ample reason for the cops to believe he was on PCP, and his behavior would most certainly justify an escalation of force.
His criminal history:
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/kingarrests.html
—————-
It’s also important to note that the two passengers in Rodney King’s car (also black) were not beaten at all…because they actually did what the cops told them to do.
April 1, 2012 at 10:59 PM #740984GH
ParticipantI am going to go long on this one.
1. Zimmerman is no more a white latino than Obama is a white black president.
2. The press appears determined to make rodney king riots look like a scuffle compared to what this could bring on if Zimmerman is not hung out to dry.
3. Many black folk simply do not relate to the banger he killed and do not understand why a more recent photo is not being displayed. Why not a baby picture?April 2, 2012 at 12:03 AM #740987Participant[quote=svelte][quote=CA renter]
(wrt Rodney King)
…Under no circumstances was the coverage of that case balanced in any way. While I agree that there are horrific cases of unjustifiable police brutality, this was not one of them, IMHO.
[/quote]From Wikipedia:
After the riots, the United States Department of Justice reinstated the investigation and obtained an indictment of violations of federal civil rights against the four officers. The federal trial focused more on the evidence as to the training of officers instead of just relying on the videotape of the incident… The jury found Officer Laurence Powell and Sergeant Stacey Koon guilty, and they were subsequently sentenced to 30 months in prison, while Timothy Wind and Theodore Briseño were acquitted of all charges.In other words, CA Renter, you are saying the conviction of the police in court was wrong.
And while I absolutely agree that the rioters should be held accountable also, law officers are granted special status and protection under the law (as they should) and with that comes a higher standard for their behavior.[/quote]
Yes, absolutely, I belive the conviction was wrong. This trial was 100% political, and came about as a result of the riots. I agree with the verdicts in the Simi Valley trial, not this one where everyone and everything was emotionally charged as a result of thousands of thugs who were hell-bent on destroying LA and destroying any possibility of these officers getting a fair trial.
Everybody knew full well that the jury had no choice but to find them guilty, or there would be another riot on their hands.
Don’t get me wrong, I believe some of the officers used extreme force, probably more force than I would have liked; but given the circumstances, they did not act criminally, IMHO.
April 2, 2012 at 7:21 AM #740993svelteParticipant[quote=CA renter]
Don’t get me wrong, I believe some of the officers used extreme force, probably more force than I would have liked; but given the circumstances, they did not act criminally, IMHO.[/quote]I might be able to agree with that – would have to watch the full tape again. I just remember thinking it was excessive.
Which goes back to my original statement:
[quote=svelte]
Rodney King, with the beating caught on tape, that was clear cut.
[/quote]To which you’ve now agreed was caught on tape and was more force than you would have liked.
April 2, 2012 at 7:32 AM #740995briansd1
GuestCa renter has a tendency to defend public workers no matter what.
Are the police professionals or are they vengeful savages? I’m glad the beating was caught on tape and I’m glad the “polical” trial sent a message that it’s not acceptable behavior by the police.
ca renter, you like to compare us to northern Europe and the benefits that the state there bestows on public employees. Public employees there are much more respectful of their follow citizens.
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