OT: Will Future College Grads Be Prepared?

[scaredyclassic]

A law degree is more than 250k. Jobs are hard to come by at 50k.

Not worth it unless your kid is,dying to be a lawyer.

In general law is a bad idea

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Blogstar][quote=scaredyclassic][quote=Blogstar][quote=scaredyclassic]Smart kids are avoiding law. Lsat scores and bar passage rates are way down.

Law is shrinking. Not a good idea. No bueno.[/quote]
Unbundled services rock! Law needs a good smack down. Lawyers priced themselves out. Use sparingly.[/quote]

Just no middle class to pay them and no insyrance. Think about it. In the absence of med. Insurance, docs would be screwed too.[/quote]

So how to you feel about that fact that cost effective or timely access to the justice system doesn’t exist for so many citizens, unless as perpetrators of bloody crimes or as the victims? Even those last issues are kind of a long shots for many.[/quote]

Justice is too expensive for a citizenry as worthless as us I guess. As is law schooling.

[flyer]

Shockingly, only about 20% of new college grads are getting the jobs they want, where they want them, and the BLS predicts that will not change much in the future. Millions of jobs will be created going forward, but many will not require college degrees.

Here’s an interesting excerpt from the Washington Post that may shed some light on that development. . .

“If you’re a parent of a high-school senior or prospective college student, these findings might make you wonder if there is any hope for a good job after college graduation. There is, but whether a student launches after college depends largely on what they do while in school. Just getting the sheepskin no longer guarantees a good job.

Employers say that students who dedicate time and effort to their major or an outside-the-classroom activity, secure multiple internships during their four years, and take on leadership roles are more likely to possess the skills needed for the workforce than students who drift through college. The best skill that students can learn in college is actually the ability to learn.

There is too much emphasis these days on picking a practical field of study, which is why business is the most popular undergraduate major. But employers need people who are broadly educated and have practical skills. Too many colleges are failing to provide that guidance and those opportunities to students while saddling them with debt they won’t be able pay off in the unemployment line.

One of the country’s most-sought-after employers, Google, has found that it is increasingly hiring people without college degrees because the signal of the credential is no longer as clear as it used to be that someone is job ready.

If colleges don’t provide the mix of academic and practical experiences that students need and students fail to take advantage of them, pretty soon we’ll see other employers looking for alternatives to the college degree as well.”

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=scaredyclassic]A law degree is more than 250k. Jobs are hard to come by at 50k.

Not worth it unless your kid is,dying to be a lawyer.

In general law is a bad idea[/quote]

Doesn’t seem like that. I don’t see starving lawyers.
What would you say is the percentage is lawyers who earn an income worth the education and sacrifices. Better than actors, I’m sure.

My neighbor is a retired lawyer. He owns 5 condos in the building and a second home in Montana. Seems pretty set.

Also, lawyers have the status symbol which is worth something.

Interesting that, generally among people who highly value education, being a concert musician is a high status job. But only a tiny percent make much money. Good job if you have a trust fund.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=scaredyclassic]A law degree is more than 250k. Jobs are hard to come by at 50k.

Not worth it unless your kid is,dying to be a lawyer.

In general law is a bad idea[/quote]

Doesn’t seem like that. I don’t see starving lawyers.
What would you say is the percentage is lawyers who earn an income worth the education and sacrifices. Better than actors, I’m sure.

My neighbor is a retired lawyer. He owns 5 condos in the building and a second home in Montana. Seems pretty set.

Also, lawyers have the status symbol which is worth something.

Interesting that, generally among people who highly value education, being a concert musician is a high status job. But only a tiny percent make much money. Good job if you have a trust fund.[/quote]

Cause u old. Check in with post 2008 grads. They are starving.

http://Www.jdunderground.com

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=scaredyclassic]A law degree is more than 250k. Jobs are hard to come by at 50k.

Not worth it unless your kid is,dying to be a lawyer.

In general law is a bad idea[/quote]

Doesn’t seem like that. I don’t see starving lawyers.
What would you say is the percentage is lawyers who earn an income worth the education and sacrifices. Better than actors, I’m sure.

My neighbor is a retired lawyer. He owns 5 condos in the building and a second home in Montana. Seems pretty set.

Also, lawyers have the status symbol which is worth something.

Interesting that, generally among people who highly value education, being a concert musician is a high status job. But only a tiny percent make much money. Good job if you have a trust fund.[/quote]

Of all new lawyers less than half will do ok.

[Anonymous]

[quote=flyer]Shockingly, only about 20% of new college grads are getting the jobs they want, where they want them, and the BLS predicts that will not change much in the future.[/quote]

Why is that shocking?

What should the number be?

Personally, I’m not surprised by that vague statistic. Four of five people don’t receive fulfilling careers immediately after obtaining an undergraduate degree? Sounds like real life.

[joec]

I think the concern with college grads is with your chosen college degree, probably 80% is not using anything at all or related to what they studied.

This means to me, that 80% of grad should have simply not gone to college since that money was a total waste.

I think that’s the scary or depressing statistic.

Maybe too many people have useless majors or people simply aren’t hiring, but with automation, outsourcing, building r&d internationally, I think there are just less jobs overall and many larger companies are cutting back (QCOM, old tech, banks cutting a lot)…

As great as all the tech companies are, I’ve heard/read that they hire a relatively few number of people for however much profits/revenue they generate.

This leads to much larger unemployment among young people leading to mo problems.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=harvey][quote=flyer]Shockingly, only about 20% of new college grads are getting the jobs they want, where they want them, and the BLS predicts that will not change much in the future.[/quote]

Why is that shocking?

What should the number be?

Personally, I’m not surprised by that vague statistic. Four of five people don’t receive fulfilling careers immediately after obtaining an undergraduate degree? Sounds like real life.[/quote]

Yeah, it shouldn’t be shocking. College is more education than job training.

The outlook of going to college, get married, have a nice life is 20th century middle-class entitlement. However, America was built on hardwork and enterprise, not following a preset path (mostly made by corporations, like the salarymen of Japan).

America is still the land of opportunity. Nobody has to live in an expensive market like San Diego and feel like they’re not making it. High expectations can lead to disappointment.

My carpet guy in Vegas (well, not my carpet guy but a guy whom I call upon sometimes to do work for me), 20yo from a poor Mexican family. His parents can barely read and write, but he’s been installing carpet with his dad since he was 14. Now, he’s got a good job with a big contractor doing work in hotels. He will go to Wisconsin or wherever out of state to work for weeks at a time to save money. He’s very enterprising and knows where to get good deals on carpet, so he can operate a tiny business on the side, on his spare time.

At 20, he has one more year before he can pay cash for a 2/2 condo (about $90k for a foreclosure/fixer/damaged unit) in a good school district area (a little north of Seven Hills if anyone is interested). Then he can get married and have kids. He will be debt free, continue to save, and do well. And I’m sure his kids will do much better. So there we go, 3 generations of moving on up. No college and no stress.

[flyer]

No question there are many people doing well without college as you described, FIH, and, as noted in the excerpt I mentioned below,

“One of the country’s most-sought-after employers, Google, has found that it is increasingly hiring people without college degrees because the signal of the credential is no longer as clear as it used to be that someone is job ready.

If colleges don’t provide the mix of academic and practical experiences that students need and students fail to take advantage of them, pretty soon we’ll see other employers looking for alternatives to the college degree as well.”

All of that is great, but, wrt to those who do attend college, it has been my experience having raised three kids who graduated from college, that around 100% of the kids who are planning for college, are in college, or have completed college, believe they will get exactly what they want when they graduate, and, from what we’ve seen, many seem to be completely amazed when it doesn’t work out that way. This has even been the case for many with advanced degrees.

Guess I shouldn’t be shocked, but I have to admit,
I was surprised to see these stats. Apparently, there is a huge disconnect somewhere between perception and reality for many when it comes to this issue.

[Anonymous]

[quote=flyer]”One of the country’s most-sought-after employers, Google, has found that it is increasingly hiring people without college degrees because the signal of the credential is no longer as clear as it used to be that someone is job ready.[/quote]

I really doubt that claim. It is misleading.

A small percentage of Google employees may not have college degrees, but they likely have many years of experience. These roles are mostly IT technicians with specialized skills.

The big tech companies do pick up a few young uneducated “hacker” types that have somehow have gained visibility, perhaps by creating some popular app, etc. But these are exceptional cases.

If one wants to work for Google when they are in their early 20s, they’d best get a college degree.

As for the statistics that show many college grads are disillusioned by the options after graduating, I think that has more to do with the naivete of youth than any economic phenomenon.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=flyer]No question there are many people doing well without college as you described, FIH, and, as noted in the excerpt I mentioned below,

“One of the country’s most-sought-after employers, Google, has found that it is increasingly hiring people without college degrees because the signal of the credential is no longer as clear as it used to be that someone is job ready.

If colleges don’t provide the mix of academic and practical experiences that students need and students fail to take advantage of them, pretty soon we’ll see other employers looking for alternatives to the college degree as well.”

All of that is great, but, wrt to those who do attend college, it has been my experience having raised three kids who graduated from college, that around 100% of the kids who are planning for college, are in college, or have completed college, believe they will get exactly what they want when they graduate, and, from what we’ve seen, many seem to be completely amazed when it doesn’t work out that way. This has even been the case for many with advanced degrees.

Guess I shouldn’t be shocked, but I have to admit,
I was surprised to see these stats. Apparently, there is a huge disconnect somewhere between perception and reality for many when it comes to this issue.[/quote]

flyer, my youngest is a college sophomore majoring in accounting and just received a perfectly decent current black suit from a sibling who bought it at a designer consignment shop in SF. I’m getting them a very nice leather designer accessory to go with that black suit for x-mas as they will be going out on interviews for internships (start-date next fall) in the first half of 2016. The school they attend is heavy on internships beginning in the junior year and utilizes a “learn by doing” philosophy in the classroom. Besides doing well in upper-division courses, part of that “learn by doing” is developing “presence” by looking, walking and talking the part, looking like you’re “worth it,” developing credible interview skills and getting early internship experience. Indoctrination into a Greek organization also helps a college student get a “leg up” on chances for valuable internships because of the work they do out in the community. In addition, this school has placement services and very well-connected longtime professors (as does Cal State Northridge and SFSU). At least four of the CSU’s (and maybe more) do NOT use TA’s to teach a class … only full professors.

A good friend’s 23-yo daughter is graduating with a dual-degree (BS & MS) in accounting in ten days from a state university and has already passed two out of four sections of the CPA exam. She secured a position at THE biggest accounting firm in the state back in June, with a reporting date of 1/11/16 and already has a 1 br apt lined up less than a mile from work. A lot of universities around the country are now offering the BS/MS option or BS/MBA option in their business schools to be completed in 5.5 or 6 years (utilizing summer term(s)) with ONE graduation ceremony. Business students who sign up for this option receive their 500-level (Master’s level classes) at the same tuition price as their undergrad classes and can take them simultaneously with undergrad classes. It’s a great option for serious business students who want to graduate with a career.

There IS value in graduating from a CA public university but it’s dependent on what the student makes of their time there. I have a neighbor who graduated 1.5 years ago from UCSD with a microbiology degree (who I helped get on Medi-Cal) and cannot find a job (doesn’t want to leave SD) and thus is working part time locally for $13 hr.

And, in business, personality, presence and connections have a lot to do with success, especially to get that first foot in the door starting out.

[The-Shoveler]

IMO they are just forcing the issue too much.

Everyone is now being strongly advised to go to a 4 year college (primed from grade school on).

It used to not be that way and I expect there are a number who really would be better off not incurring the expense and time of college.

Before I think only those who were really inclined would go.

[bearishgurl]

A lot of college students seem to be too tatooed and have fallen down on their grooming and dress to present themselves correctly for an interview. That may be why some of your friends’ kids can’t find a job in their (professional) field. That and their refusal to leave their (comfy) parents’ home (inside the convenant?) to interview up in the likes of Sac, Fresno, or wherever an opening they’re qualified for presents itself.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=The-Shoveler]IMO they are just forcing the issue too much.

Everyone is now being strongly advised to go to a 4 year college (primed from grade school on).

It used to not be that way and I expect there are a number who really would be better off not incurring the expense and time of college.

Before I think only those who were really inclined would go.[/quote]

Your last statement was true back in “my day.” However, one didn’t need a college degree to land a job which was good enough to get married, begin raising a family and qualify for a home loan back then. And we were happy to buy an older 3/2 SFR in an aging area where today’s millenials (at least in SD) are not.

In my youngest kids’ case, I will only be out $30K to $35K for their 4-5 years of college (all room and board expense). All their other expenses are taken care of by a state tuition-only waiver and a scholarship of $5850 to $7350 annually, depending on if they attend summer term or not. If they graduate with a BS or BS/MS with experience from internships and get study materials and assistance with studying for the CPA exam from the business dept, it will be totally worth it.

[Author]

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