OT: The nail is on the coffin…UAW leader says no more concessions

[TheBreeze]

It looks like the UAW is making a stand. They are tired of making all the concessions while the management fat cats who have managed the company poorly get rich. Seems like a reasonable position to me. Let the management fat cats take cuts to their salary/benefits in order to save the company.

Alternatively, maybe the UAW president has been in touch with some politicians who have assured him a bailout is coming so he comes out firing in order to take the initiative. Negotiating 101.

[an]

[quote=TheBreeze]It looks like the UAW is making a stand. They are tired of making all the concessions while the management fat cats who have managed the company poorly get rich. Seems like a reasonable position to me. Let the management fat cats take cuts to their salary/benefits in order to save the company.

Alternatively, maybe the UAW president has been in touch with some politicians who have assured him a bailout is coming so he comes out firing in order to take the initiative. Negotiating 101.[/quote]
You would have thought UAW would have learned from the Teamster and Performance Transportation Services fiasco recently. Linky for those who are not familiar with it. The gist of it is, Performance Transportation Services went out of business and layoff everyone because Teamster “made a stand”.

If you’re talking about fat cats, you should look at the average wages paid to UAW worker after benefits. $150k/year is by your definition, rich, since married couple working for GM, on average would make $300k/yr. Weren’t you the one who insisting on drawing the line of $250k/yr as rich. Rich = fat cats baby.

[an]

[quote=TheBreeze]It looks like the UAW is making a stand. They are tired of making all the concessions while the management fat cats who have managed the company poorly get rich. Seems like a reasonable position to me. Let the management fat cats take cuts to their salary/benefits in order to save the company.

Alternatively, maybe the UAW president has been in touch with some politicians who have assured him a bailout is coming so he comes out firing in order to take the initiative. Negotiating 101.[/quote]
You would have thought UAW would have learned from the Teamster and Performance Transportation Services fiasco recently. Linky for those who are not familiar with it. The gist of it is, Performance Transportation Services went out of business and layoff everyone because Teamster “made a stand”.

If you’re talking about fat cats, you should look at the average wages paid to UAW worker after benefits. $150k/year is by your definition, rich, since married couple working for GM, on average would make $300k/yr. Weren’t you the one who insisting on drawing the line of $250k/yr as rich. Rich = fat cats baby.

[an]

[quote=TheBreeze]It looks like the UAW is making a stand. They are tired of making all the concessions while the management fat cats who have managed the company poorly get rich. Seems like a reasonable position to me. Let the management fat cats take cuts to their salary/benefits in order to save the company.

Alternatively, maybe the UAW president has been in touch with some politicians who have assured him a bailout is coming so he comes out firing in order to take the initiative. Negotiating 101.[/quote]
You would have thought UAW would have learned from the Teamster and Performance Transportation Services fiasco recently. Linky for those who are not familiar with it. The gist of it is, Performance Transportation Services went out of business and layoff everyone because Teamster “made a stand”.

If you’re talking about fat cats, you should look at the average wages paid to UAW worker after benefits. $150k/year is by your definition, rich, since married couple working for GM, on average would make $300k/yr. Weren’t you the one who insisting on drawing the line of $250k/yr as rich. Rich = fat cats baby.

[an]

[quote=TheBreeze]It looks like the UAW is making a stand. They are tired of making all the concessions while the management fat cats who have managed the company poorly get rich. Seems like a reasonable position to me. Let the management fat cats take cuts to their salary/benefits in order to save the company.

Alternatively, maybe the UAW president has been in touch with some politicians who have assured him a bailout is coming so he comes out firing in order to take the initiative. Negotiating 101.[/quote]
You would have thought UAW would have learned from the Teamster and Performance Transportation Services fiasco recently. Linky for those who are not familiar with it. The gist of it is, Performance Transportation Services went out of business and layoff everyone because Teamster “made a stand”.

If you’re talking about fat cats, you should look at the average wages paid to UAW worker after benefits. $150k/year is by your definition, rich, since married couple working for GM, on average would make $300k/yr. Weren’t you the one who insisting on drawing the line of $250k/yr as rich. Rich = fat cats baby.

[an]

[quote=TheBreeze]It looks like the UAW is making a stand. They are tired of making all the concessions while the management fat cats who have managed the company poorly get rich. Seems like a reasonable position to me. Let the management fat cats take cuts to their salary/benefits in order to save the company.

Alternatively, maybe the UAW president has been in touch with some politicians who have assured him a bailout is coming so he comes out firing in order to take the initiative. Negotiating 101.[/quote]
You would have thought UAW would have learned from the Teamster and Performance Transportation Services fiasco recently. Linky for those who are not familiar with it. The gist of it is, Performance Transportation Services went out of business and layoff everyone because Teamster “made a stand”.

If you’re talking about fat cats, you should look at the average wages paid to UAW worker after benefits. $150k/year is by your definition, rich, since married couple working for GM, on average would make $300k/yr. Weren’t you the one who insisting on drawing the line of $250k/yr as rich. Rich = fat cats baby.

[cooperthedog]

[quote=asianautica]If you’re talking about fat cats, you should look at the average wages paid to UAW worker after benefits. $150k/year is by your definition, rich, since married couple working for GM, on average would make $300k/yr. Weren’t you the one who insisting on drawing the line of $250k/yr as rich. Rich = fat cats baby.[/quote]

150k a year? That can’t be right.

I did some research and the actual wage of an assembler is 28/hr or ~60k a year. Which is good, but nowhere near 150k a year.

It appears that GM quotes the total cost of labor, which includes overtime pay, FICA and other taxes that all employers pay. But the biggest factor is the underfunded accounts for healthcare and retirement. From what I can tell these accounts were dipped into by GM over the years and they are adding the cost of the shortfall as a labor expense (otherwise the annual healthcare premiums for each current employee would be 40k). I find this deceiptive and misleading.

This is akin to blaming all US workers for the upcoming social security deficit. The “cost” per current US worker is really high when you factor in all the underfunded and gov’t raided retirement and healthcare accounts. The mgmt (politicians) aren’t to blame, its the citizens fault – so what if the USG spent the entitlement funds and managed the country so poorly. The real problem is the enormous cost per citizen for all the debt the USG racked up. In light of this, citizens make/keep too much of their income, so we need to raise FICA/taxes so the US can become more competitive… [sarcasm off]

[cooperthedog]

[quote=asianautica]If you’re talking about fat cats, you should look at the average wages paid to UAW worker after benefits. $150k/year is by your definition, rich, since married couple working for GM, on average would make $300k/yr. Weren’t you the one who insisting on drawing the line of $250k/yr as rich. Rich = fat cats baby.[/quote]

150k a year? That can’t be right.

I did some research and the actual wage of an assembler is 28/hr or ~60k a year. Which is good, but nowhere near 150k a year.

It appears that GM quotes the total cost of labor, which includes overtime pay, FICA and other taxes that all employers pay. But the biggest factor is the underfunded accounts for healthcare and retirement. From what I can tell these accounts were dipped into by GM over the years and they are adding the cost of the shortfall as a labor expense (otherwise the annual healthcare premiums for each current employee would be 40k). I find this deceiptive and misleading.

This is akin to blaming all US workers for the upcoming social security deficit. The “cost” per current US worker is really high when you factor in all the underfunded and gov’t raided retirement and healthcare accounts. The mgmt (politicians) aren’t to blame, its the citizens fault – so what if the USG spent the entitlement funds and managed the country so poorly. The real problem is the enormous cost per citizen for all the debt the USG racked up. In light of this, citizens make/keep too much of their income, so we need to raise FICA/taxes so the US can become more competitive… [sarcasm off]

[cooperthedog]

[quote=asianautica]If you’re talking about fat cats, you should look at the average wages paid to UAW worker after benefits. $150k/year is by your definition, rich, since married couple working for GM, on average would make $300k/yr. Weren’t you the one who insisting on drawing the line of $250k/yr as rich. Rich = fat cats baby.[/quote]

150k a year? That can’t be right.

I did some research and the actual wage of an assembler is 28/hr or ~60k a year. Which is good, but nowhere near 150k a year.

It appears that GM quotes the total cost of labor, which includes overtime pay, FICA and other taxes that all employers pay. But the biggest factor is the underfunded accounts for healthcare and retirement. From what I can tell these accounts were dipped into by GM over the years and they are adding the cost of the shortfall as a labor expense (otherwise the annual healthcare premiums for each current employee would be 40k). I find this deceiptive and misleading.

This is akin to blaming all US workers for the upcoming social security deficit. The “cost” per current US worker is really high when you factor in all the underfunded and gov’t raided retirement and healthcare accounts. The mgmt (politicians) aren’t to blame, its the citizens fault – so what if the USG spent the entitlement funds and managed the country so poorly. The real problem is the enormous cost per citizen for all the debt the USG racked up. In light of this, citizens make/keep too much of their income, so we need to raise FICA/taxes so the US can become more competitive… [sarcasm off]

[cooperthedog]

[quote=asianautica]If you’re talking about fat cats, you should look at the average wages paid to UAW worker after benefits. $150k/year is by your definition, rich, since married couple working for GM, on average would make $300k/yr. Weren’t you the one who insisting on drawing the line of $250k/yr as rich. Rich = fat cats baby.[/quote]

150k a year? That can’t be right.

I did some research and the actual wage of an assembler is 28/hr or ~60k a year. Which is good, but nowhere near 150k a year.

It appears that GM quotes the total cost of labor, which includes overtime pay, FICA and other taxes that all employers pay. But the biggest factor is the underfunded accounts for healthcare and retirement. From what I can tell these accounts were dipped into by GM over the years and they are adding the cost of the shortfall as a labor expense (otherwise the annual healthcare premiums for each current employee would be 40k). I find this deceiptive and misleading.

This is akin to blaming all US workers for the upcoming social security deficit. The “cost” per current US worker is really high when you factor in all the underfunded and gov’t raided retirement and healthcare accounts. The mgmt (politicians) aren’t to blame, its the citizens fault – so what if the USG spent the entitlement funds and managed the country so poorly. The real problem is the enormous cost per citizen for all the debt the USG racked up. In light of this, citizens make/keep too much of their income, so we need to raise FICA/taxes so the US can become more competitive… [sarcasm off]

[cooperthedog]

[quote=asianautica]If you’re talking about fat cats, you should look at the average wages paid to UAW worker after benefits. $150k/year is by your definition, rich, since married couple working for GM, on average would make $300k/yr. Weren’t you the one who insisting on drawing the line of $250k/yr as rich. Rich = fat cats baby.[/quote]

150k a year? That can’t be right.

I did some research and the actual wage of an assembler is 28/hr or ~60k a year. Which is good, but nowhere near 150k a year.

It appears that GM quotes the total cost of labor, which includes overtime pay, FICA and other taxes that all employers pay. But the biggest factor is the underfunded accounts for healthcare and retirement. From what I can tell these accounts were dipped into by GM over the years and they are adding the cost of the shortfall as a labor expense (otherwise the annual healthcare premiums for each current employee would be 40k). I find this deceiptive and misleading.

This is akin to blaming all US workers for the upcoming social security deficit. The “cost” per current US worker is really high when you factor in all the underfunded and gov’t raided retirement and healthcare accounts. The mgmt (politicians) aren’t to blame, its the citizens fault – so what if the USG spent the entitlement funds and managed the country so poorly. The real problem is the enormous cost per citizen for all the debt the USG racked up. In light of this, citizens make/keep too much of their income, so we need to raise FICA/taxes so the US can become more competitive… [sarcasm off]

[an]

[quote=cooperthedog][quote=asianautica]If you’re talking about fat cats, you should look at the average wages paid to UAW worker after benefits. $150k/year is by your definition, rich, since married couple working for GM, on average would make $300k/yr. Weren’t you the one who insisting on drawing the line of $250k/yr as rich. Rich = fat cats baby.[/quote]

150k a year? That can’t be right.

I did some research and the actual wage of an assembler is 28/hr or ~60k a year. Which is good, but nowhere near 150k a year.

It appears that GM quotes the total cost of labor, which includes overtime pay, FICA and other taxes that all employers pay. But the biggest factor is the underfunded accounts for healthcare and retirement. From what I can tell these accounts were dipped into by GM over the years and they are adding the cost of the shortfall as a labor expense (otherwise the annual healthcare premiums for each current employee would be 40k). I find this deceiptive and misleading.

This is akin to blaming all US workers for the upcoming social security deficit. The “cost” per current US worker is really high when you factor in all the underfunded and gov’t raided retirement and healthcare accounts. The mgmt (politicians) aren’t to blame, its the citizens fault – so what if the USG spent the entitlement funds and managed the country so poorly. The real problem is the enormous cost per citizen for all the debt the USG racked up. In light of this, citizens make/keep too much of their income, so we need to raise FICA/taxes so the US can become more competitive… [sarcasm off]
[/quote]
So, you’re rich if you make $150k/yr as a contractor w/out benefit, but you’re not rich if you make $60k in W2 but $90k in benefits? I’m not blaming UAW for this, I just think it’s foolish to do what Teamster did. The big 3 are down. I don’t think it’s very smart of kick them when they’re already down.

[an]

[quote=cooperthedog][quote=asianautica]If you’re talking about fat cats, you should look at the average wages paid to UAW worker after benefits. $150k/year is by your definition, rich, since married couple working for GM, on average would make $300k/yr. Weren’t you the one who insisting on drawing the line of $250k/yr as rich. Rich = fat cats baby.[/quote]

150k a year? That can’t be right.

I did some research and the actual wage of an assembler is 28/hr or ~60k a year. Which is good, but nowhere near 150k a year.

It appears that GM quotes the total cost of labor, which includes overtime pay, FICA and other taxes that all employers pay. But the biggest factor is the underfunded accounts for healthcare and retirement. From what I can tell these accounts were dipped into by GM over the years and they are adding the cost of the shortfall as a labor expense (otherwise the annual healthcare premiums for each current employee would be 40k). I find this deceiptive and misleading.

This is akin to blaming all US workers for the upcoming social security deficit. The “cost” per current US worker is really high when you factor in all the underfunded and gov’t raided retirement and healthcare accounts. The mgmt (politicians) aren’t to blame, its the citizens fault – so what if the USG spent the entitlement funds and managed the country so poorly. The real problem is the enormous cost per citizen for all the debt the USG racked up. In light of this, citizens make/keep too much of their income, so we need to raise FICA/taxes so the US can become more competitive… [sarcasm off]
[/quote]
So, you’re rich if you make $150k/yr as a contractor w/out benefit, but you’re not rich if you make $60k in W2 but $90k in benefits? I’m not blaming UAW for this, I just think it’s foolish to do what Teamster did. The big 3 are down. I don’t think it’s very smart of kick them when they’re already down.

[an]

[quote=cooperthedog][quote=asianautica]If you’re talking about fat cats, you should look at the average wages paid to UAW worker after benefits. $150k/year is by your definition, rich, since married couple working for GM, on average would make $300k/yr. Weren’t you the one who insisting on drawing the line of $250k/yr as rich. Rich = fat cats baby.[/quote]

150k a year? That can’t be right.

I did some research and the actual wage of an assembler is 28/hr or ~60k a year. Which is good, but nowhere near 150k a year.

It appears that GM quotes the total cost of labor, which includes overtime pay, FICA and other taxes that all employers pay. But the biggest factor is the underfunded accounts for healthcare and retirement. From what I can tell these accounts were dipped into by GM over the years and they are adding the cost of the shortfall as a labor expense (otherwise the annual healthcare premiums for each current employee would be 40k). I find this deceiptive and misleading.

This is akin to blaming all US workers for the upcoming social security deficit. The “cost” per current US worker is really high when you factor in all the underfunded and gov’t raided retirement and healthcare accounts. The mgmt (politicians) aren’t to blame, its the citizens fault – so what if the USG spent the entitlement funds and managed the country so poorly. The real problem is the enormous cost per citizen for all the debt the USG racked up. In light of this, citizens make/keep too much of their income, so we need to raise FICA/taxes so the US can become more competitive… [sarcasm off]
[/quote]
So, you’re rich if you make $150k/yr as a contractor w/out benefit, but you’re not rich if you make $60k in W2 but $90k in benefits? I’m not blaming UAW for this, I just think it’s foolish to do what Teamster did. The big 3 are down. I don’t think it’s very smart of kick them when they’re already down.

[an]

[quote=cooperthedog][quote=asianautica]If you’re talking about fat cats, you should look at the average wages paid to UAW worker after benefits. $150k/year is by your definition, rich, since married couple working for GM, on average would make $300k/yr. Weren’t you the one who insisting on drawing the line of $250k/yr as rich. Rich = fat cats baby.[/quote]

150k a year? That can’t be right.

I did some research and the actual wage of an assembler is 28/hr or ~60k a year. Which is good, but nowhere near 150k a year.

It appears that GM quotes the total cost of labor, which includes overtime pay, FICA and other taxes that all employers pay. But the biggest factor is the underfunded accounts for healthcare and retirement. From what I can tell these accounts were dipped into by GM over the years and they are adding the cost of the shortfall as a labor expense (otherwise the annual healthcare premiums for each current employee would be 40k). I find this deceiptive and misleading.

This is akin to blaming all US workers for the upcoming social security deficit. The “cost” per current US worker is really high when you factor in all the underfunded and gov’t raided retirement and healthcare accounts. The mgmt (politicians) aren’t to blame, its the citizens fault – so what if the USG spent the entitlement funds and managed the country so poorly. The real problem is the enormous cost per citizen for all the debt the USG racked up. In light of this, citizens make/keep too much of their income, so we need to raise FICA/taxes so the US can become more competitive… [sarcasm off]
[/quote]
So, you’re rich if you make $150k/yr as a contractor w/out benefit, but you’re not rich if you make $60k in W2 but $90k in benefits? I’m not blaming UAW for this, I just think it’s foolish to do what Teamster did. The big 3 are down. I don’t think it’s very smart of kick them when they’re already down.

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