OT: stocks today

[Coronita]

[quote=spdrun]Because I feel better owning property. Property is real. Property is an actual possession. Property can be lived in, touched, worked on with my two hands. And I enjoy working with my hands more than working with my brain. I’m primitive that way.

Index funds are dependent on the management of Wall Street scum that I don’t personally know and don’t trust (see also: Madoff). I like the control of real estate. It makes me feel safe to own multiple roofs.

*I* pick the tenants.
*I* pick the property.
*I* decide how to fix the property.
*I* can always live in the property if worse comes to worse.

It satisfies the selfish little kid in me to hoard physical possessions — kind of like the Kindergartener who wants all of the toys and woe to anyone who asks him to care and share.

Also, crashed property yields 8% or more, not 4-5%. In rents, not Monopoly money.[/quote]

[quote]
[quote=spdrun]Difference being, I’m looking for a very small piece of the pie, so it’s easier to steal it from under people’s noses.

I’m not looking to get rich, just to have all of my basic living expenses (housing, utilities, health insurance, food, medical, maybe car) paid by ATMs on the hoof (aka tenants).

Literally, I’m looking for 50-75k per year that I have to do minimum work for and not be beholden to a 8-6 job for. Beyond that, I have no interest in property — it’s not a means of growth for me, just a means to assure a basic level of subsistence, because I’m not creative enough to think of any other way of doing this.[/quote]
[/quote]

Again, you’re not being consistent here…..
Your exact words were you’re looking for 50-75k per year that you have to do minimum work for, not beholden to an 8-6 job…beyond which you don’t really care about property. Then, you also replied you wouldn’t mind working for an ahole for some time if it generated $50k/annually for the long term….And now, I’m saying you can generate your $50k/annually with presumedly your ultra thrift/saver you are had you just been camping out in index funds which have no fund manager that actively tries to trade and rack up those management fees that would have produced your $50k/annual amount you wanted… But for some reason, you have a problem with that, with “fees” (though with index funds, those fees are negligible being passive funds not actively managed funds….while meanwhile, you don’t mind paying fees such as “property taxes”, “hoa” and other costs associated with owning real estate….

I thought your entire purpose was to try to reach your $50-75k/year in passive income as quickly as you can, regardless of how you get there…provided it’s legal and to a lesser extent ethical…Right?

Also the 8% versus 4%-5% thing…You aren’t getting 8% on property because you didn’t max out on your property when it was at an all time low, so of course looking back on it, if you put all your eggs into property at the exact time when it was low, yes 8% (actually even better)…But you didn’t…Just like you aren’t going to pick the winning stock every single time. So reality is, you are really going to do that much better than the average return on the market over the long period of time….
Besides, if you can get your $50k out of 4-5% why would you want to take on increased risk just to get 8%+ when you really don’t need to, if your only goal is $50k/year in passive income?

Again, where does your personal biases, prejudices, preconceived notions, and opinions matter in generating passive income? Don’t you think that your perceptions and biases are costing you a huge opportunity cost that is actually hurting you more than helping you reach your goal?

[Anonymous]

Real estate can be passive income.

But that comes at a cost.

The cost is such that truly passive real-estate income really isn’t any different that passive dividend income, etc.

Markets have a way of finding equilibrium.

[Coronita]

My point is regardless of the asset class…It amazes me people still camp out waiting for the one shot once in a lifetime event. I don’t know, that to me seems to be an incredibly risky strategy. What if you’re wrong???

If folks made an annual $15k towards their 401k every year for 25 years, even with a less than stellar return of 5% , that’s slightly above $800k after 25 years.

You started working at 22-23, you’d be there around the time you were in your mid forties.. and that’s just with the 401k itself, not counting on any other investments elsewhere.

I fail to see why there is a need to bank your entire retirement strategy on one major catastrophe , other than self validation that you are right, everyone else is wrong, and that you are better than the average person.

[FlyerInHi]

The passive income benefit of real estate doesn’t really fly if you actively manage.
Since spdrun mentioned enjoying working on houses, there’s definitely is a sweat equity component. It’s like creating your own job without all the demands of a real business.

If you have wherewithal, you can work at your own pace and be your own boss.
It’s taken me months to remodel a property. I did it right and have great tenants. If you buy low, you don’t need to stress out about servicing your debt. Managing real estate is an art. It’s not for everybody, but I enjoy it.

[Anonymous]

[quote=flu]My point is regardless of the asset class…It amazes me people still camp out waiting for the one shot once in a lifetime event.[/quote]

Because some people value bragging rights over investment returns.

[Coronita]

But that’s not what spdrun suggested in any of his posts on both this stock thread and on the posted “what’s up with these opportunities” housing thread.

Basically, in short, both of his posts are

1. I want stock prices to crash so while most people get screwed, I can buy low and make a killing….(Meanwhile I’ll sit it out waiting indefinitely.)

2. I want housing prices to crash so while most people get screwed, I can buy low and make a killing…(Meanwhile I’ll sit it out waiting indefinitely.)

and in this thread

3. I only want investments to the point I can generate $50-75k in income so I don’t need to work at a daily job..

(#3) was totally achievable without any sort of “waiting for the big one” if one’s time horizon was 20-25 years, starting when you are in your twenties.

And wrto to property….Let’s take for example… Gzz. He recently bought a positive cash flow property on OB… No need for him to wait for a real estate crash to moving towards his retirement goal.

(#1) & (#2) is a hope that it will happen in your lifetime, at the moment you have the financial resources, and when you can recognize it. If that’s your retirement plan, sorry to say this, that’s a pretty shitty plan. Because it just seems like you’re giving up a lot of opportunity cost of what is happening right now waiting for that one time event that you’re hoping will make up for all those years you did nothing.

[Coronita]

[quote=harvey][quote=flu]My point is regardless of the asset class…It amazes me people still camp out waiting for the one shot once in a lifetime event.[/quote]

Because some people value bragging rights over investment returns.[/quote]

But, it seems it’s a little more than that….

This is more like… “I hope the stock market and real estate market crashes so that people get screwed and hurt, and I come out ahead of them because I’m smart and they are dumb”……

Achieving that $50k/year financial goal don’t require the first part…But it’s almost as if, for some, there’s a sense of victory and pleasure only if the first part happens…hence what motivates one to bank a majority of the financial decisions on that one and only outcome. That’s the decision process that I find fascinating.

[Anonymous]

Meh, semantics.

[Coronita]

[quote=harvey]Meh, semantics.[/quote]

Maybe. My financial goals are to maximize my profits, not requiring to maximize other people’s pain.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=flu]

Maybe. My financial goals are to maximize my profits, not requiring to maximize other people’s pain.[/quote]

I agree and that’s where the win-win comes in.

In defense of spdrun, maybe he’s taking advantage of opportunities today while preparing for a future crash. Perhaps, in wishing for a crash, spdrun wants what he believes is a rotten system that values growth and profits over human happiness to fail.

A system that is work, work, work, money, money, money, growth, growth, growth. requires constant keeping up, lest you fall behind. That’s hard on someone who is an admitted slacker. A good recession resets things and punishes people who just go with the flow.

At least spdrun is honest and not blaming immigrants. A lot of people who don’t participate during the boom years still think of themselves as smart and they look for scapegoats to justify their failures or feelings they may be passed over. Lots of permabears are like that.

[moneymaker]

Another problem with waiting for a crash is do you buy real estate or stock? I’m not a salesman so I love the fact that I can buy and sell stock without any social interaction. As Robert Kiyosaki says a house is a liability. How many houses do you need? If I was Trump I would get rid of any housing tax breaks that multiple home owners are using, unfortunately the only way to do that might involve getting rid of mortgage deductions altogether, which I would not be for. I’ve had really good luck with stocks but am not currently a holder, I have a house so I’m good there too. Currently putting excess money into 401-K (ok I guess I do really own stock sorta) but have no idea what is coming economically down the road. When my crystal ball clears I will post again.

[Coronita]

[quote=moneymaker]Another problem with waiting for a crash is do you buy real estate or stock? I’m not a salesman so I love the fact that I can buy and sell stock without any social interaction. As Robert Kiyosaki says a house is a liability. How many houses do you need? If I was Trump I would get rid of any housing tax breaks that multiple home owners are using, unfortunately the only way to do that might involve getting rid of mortgage deductions altogether, which I would not be for. I’ve had really good luck with stocks but am not currently a holder, I have a house so I’m good there too. Currently putting excess money into 401-K (ok I guess I do really own stock sorta) but have no idea what is coming economically down the road. When my crystal ball clears I will post again.[/quote]

I don’t think subscribing to either ends of the fridges of uber bear or perma bear really helps one meet one’s financial goals. It’s more of a emotional decision, with subsequently looking for facts to somehow support your emotional decision. At least, that’s what I learned with the my fiasco of pulling out my 401k on the eve of the trump win. I never touched my 401k before…And had I just left it sit all alone as I’ve always have been, it would be been better in the long run anyway….Even getting back in 70% in January in conservative index splits between domestic and international, it’s done 7% this year, which isn’t bad for a set it and forget it thing…

I’m not touching my 401k again. I have other investments that I can touch and try to manage ( and fvck up…). And I don’t want to camp out in the most aggressive investment options in my 401k anymore… Like I said, why take unnecessary risks if your financial goals can be met with lower risk things? Most financial advice Ive seen mentions that as you get older and closer to retirement, you should be rebalancing your holdings to assume less risk (and I guess since risk goes hand in hand with returns, have lower returns)…because you have less time to recover if things do end up in the crapper.

Also, I’ll retire when I’m no longer employable. Fundamentally, I like to work and like what I do.

[The-Shoveler]

[quote=flu]
Also, I’ll retire when I’m no longer employable. Fundamentally, I like to work and like what I do.[/quote]

Yes grasshopper but how does one find his true meaning in life LOL.
My plan/goal is to never fully retire.

[Coronita]

[quote=The-Shoveler][quote=flu]
Also, I’ll retire when I’m no longer employable. Fundamentally, I like to work and like what I do.[/quote]

Yes grasshopper but how does one find his true meaning in life LOL.
My plan/goal is to never fully retire.[/quote]

For most people, life is meaningless. For most people, what you do while you are here does didly squat for the rest of society….Stopping kidding yourself that what you do benefits society. In all likelihood, if you weren’t here, someone else would be doing the same exact thing in your place….And what you do is insignificant to the rest of the world.

And that’s a good thing… Because if it really had meaning, you probably wouldn’t be too happy because you would be too busy doing what you were chosen to do for the greater good of the rest of us to enjoy and miserable yourself…

So yes, most of us have no purpose in life while we are here…And once you’ve come to terms with this epiphany, you will suddenly realize you have the freedom to do whatever the heck you want, provided it’s legal and ethical.

So in between work, family, some friends, and hobbies lending towards automotive, that’s all there is to my own life….It couldn’t be any more simple….

I’m not chosen to save the world, and I wouldn’t want that responsibility.

[FlyerInHi]

Why is being ethical an issue if life has no meaning. Isn’t legal enough?

[Author]

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