OT: So the debt grows…

[Rich Toscano]

[quote=pri_dk]The fact that there once was a bubble in the price of one type of asset doesn’t tell us anything about whether some another asset is in a bubble today.
[/quote]

Nor did I suggest as such. My point was that financial market prices shouldn’t ever be used in an attempt to “prove” any macroeconomic statement, because financial markets are often wrong. I mentioned housing in 2005 because at the time, many people were citing rising home prices as proof of housing’s great fundamentals.

As for people paying “a lot” for government bonds: rates are at multi-generational lows, so it really isn’t debatable that people are, relatively speaking, paying a lot.

[briansd1]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=nocommonsense]It’s this same “thug” logic that the communist countries used to rob the “rich” to give to the “poor”.[/quote]

Most government spending goes toward Social Security and Medicare. There is no means test to receive these – both the rich and poor receive benefits. The basic qualification is simply to have paid into the programs and to be old.

Any increase in the marginal tax rate above $250K won’t go toward these programs anyway. It will go toward the general, discretionary budget.

About half of the discretionary budget goes to defense. Another big chunk goes toward the unemployed (some poor, some not – the qualification is to recently have had a job and lost it.) Much of the rest goes toward roads. Some of it does in fact, go directly to the poor in the form of miscellaneous heath and entitlement programs, but this is a small fraction compared to everything else.

So the vast majority of the the small increase in marginal tax rate under debate here will not go to the “poor.” Money spent on defense goes to pay military salaries and defense contractors. People in the military aren’t poor, and defense contracting is a pretty lucrative business. Highway funds also go to contractors. Like most privately-owned businesses, the majority shareholders tend to be wealthy.

Another important factor is how the economic benefits of government spending are distributed.

Who benefits more from a massive military that protects economic interests around the globe? Is it the CEO of Exxon, or the filling-station attendant?

Who benefits more from the interstate highway system? The CEO of Walmart and his “warehouse on wheels” of semi trucks, or the construction worker who commutes 20 miles/day on the freeway?

Despite what Glenn and Rush may preach in their daily sermons, the economic effects of federal taxes are hardly as simple as “robbing” the rich to pay the poor.

These days, it is more the case that taxes are about robbing the working class to support the interests of the wealthy. Recent economic trends, such as the shift in distribution of wealth from the middle class to the top percentiles, are strong evidence of this.

But don’t stop listening to Glenn – the real thugs have a lot of power, but they still need your help.[/quote]

Thank you pri_dk.

I’m afraid that your explanation is a little too complex for some to comprehend.

Take health care spending by the government. All the money goes to CEOs, big pharma, doctors, hospital and contractors who are certainly not poor. The patient doesn’t even necessarily get better health.

[briansd1]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=nocommonsense]It’s this same “thug” logic that the communist countries used to rob the “rich” to give to the “poor”.[/quote]

Most government spending goes toward Social Security and Medicare. There is no means test to receive these – both the rich and poor receive benefits. The basic qualification is simply to have paid into the programs and to be old.

Any increase in the marginal tax rate above $250K won’t go toward these programs anyway. It will go toward the general, discretionary budget.

About half of the discretionary budget goes to defense. Another big chunk goes toward the unemployed (some poor, some not – the qualification is to recently have had a job and lost it.) Much of the rest goes toward roads. Some of it does in fact, go directly to the poor in the form of miscellaneous heath and entitlement programs, but this is a small fraction compared to everything else.

So the vast majority of the the small increase in marginal tax rate under debate here will not go to the “poor.” Money spent on defense goes to pay military salaries and defense contractors. People in the military aren’t poor, and defense contracting is a pretty lucrative business. Highway funds also go to contractors. Like most privately-owned businesses, the majority shareholders tend to be wealthy.

Another important factor is how the economic benefits of government spending are distributed.

Who benefits more from a massive military that protects economic interests around the globe? Is it the CEO of Exxon, or the filling-station attendant?

Who benefits more from the interstate highway system? The CEO of Walmart and his “warehouse on wheels” of semi trucks, or the construction worker who commutes 20 miles/day on the freeway?

Despite what Glenn and Rush may preach in their daily sermons, the economic effects of federal taxes are hardly as simple as “robbing” the rich to pay the poor.

These days, it is more the case that taxes are about robbing the working class to support the interests of the wealthy. Recent economic trends, such as the shift in distribution of wealth from the middle class to the top percentiles, are strong evidence of this.

But don’t stop listening to Glenn – the real thugs have a lot of power, but they still need your help.[/quote]

Thank you pri_dk.

I’m afraid that your explanation is a little too complex for some to comprehend.

Take health care spending by the government. All the money goes to CEOs, big pharma, doctors, hospital and contractors who are certainly not poor. The patient doesn’t even necessarily get better health.

[briansd1]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=nocommonsense]It’s this same “thug” logic that the communist countries used to rob the “rich” to give to the “poor”.[/quote]

Most government spending goes toward Social Security and Medicare. There is no means test to receive these – both the rich and poor receive benefits. The basic qualification is simply to have paid into the programs and to be old.

Any increase in the marginal tax rate above $250K won’t go toward these programs anyway. It will go toward the general, discretionary budget.

About half of the discretionary budget goes to defense. Another big chunk goes toward the unemployed (some poor, some not – the qualification is to recently have had a job and lost it.) Much of the rest goes toward roads. Some of it does in fact, go directly to the poor in the form of miscellaneous heath and entitlement programs, but this is a small fraction compared to everything else.

So the vast majority of the the small increase in marginal tax rate under debate here will not go to the “poor.” Money spent on defense goes to pay military salaries and defense contractors. People in the military aren’t poor, and defense contracting is a pretty lucrative business. Highway funds also go to contractors. Like most privately-owned businesses, the majority shareholders tend to be wealthy.

Another important factor is how the economic benefits of government spending are distributed.

Who benefits more from a massive military that protects economic interests around the globe? Is it the CEO of Exxon, or the filling-station attendant?

Who benefits more from the interstate highway system? The CEO of Walmart and his “warehouse on wheels” of semi trucks, or the construction worker who commutes 20 miles/day on the freeway?

Despite what Glenn and Rush may preach in their daily sermons, the economic effects of federal taxes are hardly as simple as “robbing” the rich to pay the poor.

These days, it is more the case that taxes are about robbing the working class to support the interests of the wealthy. Recent economic trends, such as the shift in distribution of wealth from the middle class to the top percentiles, are strong evidence of this.

But don’t stop listening to Glenn – the real thugs have a lot of power, but they still need your help.[/quote]

Thank you pri_dk.

I’m afraid that your explanation is a little too complex for some to comprehend.

Take health care spending by the government. All the money goes to CEOs, big pharma, doctors, hospital and contractors who are certainly not poor. The patient doesn’t even necessarily get better health.

[briansd1]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=nocommonsense]It’s this same “thug” logic that the communist countries used to rob the “rich” to give to the “poor”.[/quote]

Most government spending goes toward Social Security and Medicare. There is no means test to receive these – both the rich and poor receive benefits. The basic qualification is simply to have paid into the programs and to be old.

Any increase in the marginal tax rate above $250K won’t go toward these programs anyway. It will go toward the general, discretionary budget.

About half of the discretionary budget goes to defense. Another big chunk goes toward the unemployed (some poor, some not – the qualification is to recently have had a job and lost it.) Much of the rest goes toward roads. Some of it does in fact, go directly to the poor in the form of miscellaneous heath and entitlement programs, but this is a small fraction compared to everything else.

So the vast majority of the the small increase in marginal tax rate under debate here will not go to the “poor.” Money spent on defense goes to pay military salaries and defense contractors. People in the military aren’t poor, and defense contracting is a pretty lucrative business. Highway funds also go to contractors. Like most privately-owned businesses, the majority shareholders tend to be wealthy.

Another important factor is how the economic benefits of government spending are distributed.

Who benefits more from a massive military that protects economic interests around the globe? Is it the CEO of Exxon, or the filling-station attendant?

Who benefits more from the interstate highway system? The CEO of Walmart and his “warehouse on wheels” of semi trucks, or the construction worker who commutes 20 miles/day on the freeway?

Despite what Glenn and Rush may preach in their daily sermons, the economic effects of federal taxes are hardly as simple as “robbing” the rich to pay the poor.

These days, it is more the case that taxes are about robbing the working class to support the interests of the wealthy. Recent economic trends, such as the shift in distribution of wealth from the middle class to the top percentiles, are strong evidence of this.

But don’t stop listening to Glenn – the real thugs have a lot of power, but they still need your help.[/quote]

Thank you pri_dk.

I’m afraid that your explanation is a little too complex for some to comprehend.

Take health care spending by the government. All the money goes to CEOs, big pharma, doctors, hospital and contractors who are certainly not poor. The patient doesn’t even necessarily get better health.

[briansd1]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=nocommonsense]It’s this same “thug” logic that the communist countries used to rob the “rich” to give to the “poor”.[/quote]

Most government spending goes toward Social Security and Medicare. There is no means test to receive these – both the rich and poor receive benefits. The basic qualification is simply to have paid into the programs and to be old.

Any increase in the marginal tax rate above $250K won’t go toward these programs anyway. It will go toward the general, discretionary budget.

About half of the discretionary budget goes to defense. Another big chunk goes toward the unemployed (some poor, some not – the qualification is to recently have had a job and lost it.) Much of the rest goes toward roads. Some of it does in fact, go directly to the poor in the form of miscellaneous heath and entitlement programs, but this is a small fraction compared to everything else.

So the vast majority of the the small increase in marginal tax rate under debate here will not go to the “poor.” Money spent on defense goes to pay military salaries and defense contractors. People in the military aren’t poor, and defense contracting is a pretty lucrative business. Highway funds also go to contractors. Like most privately-owned businesses, the majority shareholders tend to be wealthy.

Another important factor is how the economic benefits of government spending are distributed.

Who benefits more from a massive military that protects economic interests around the globe? Is it the CEO of Exxon, or the filling-station attendant?

Who benefits more from the interstate highway system? The CEO of Walmart and his “warehouse on wheels” of semi trucks, or the construction worker who commutes 20 miles/day on the freeway?

Despite what Glenn and Rush may preach in their daily sermons, the economic effects of federal taxes are hardly as simple as “robbing” the rich to pay the poor.

These days, it is more the case that taxes are about robbing the working class to support the interests of the wealthy. Recent economic trends, such as the shift in distribution of wealth from the middle class to the top percentiles, are strong evidence of this.

But don’t stop listening to Glenn – the real thugs have a lot of power, but they still need your help.[/quote]

Thank you pri_dk.

I’m afraid that your explanation is a little too complex for some to comprehend.

Take health care spending by the government. All the money goes to CEOs, big pharma, doctors, hospital and contractors who are certainly not poor. The patient doesn’t even necessarily get better health.

[nocommonsense]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=nocommonsense]It’s this same “thug” logic that the communist countries used to rob the “rich” to give to the “poor”.[/quote]

Most government spending goes toward Social Security and Medicare. There is no means test to receive these – both the rich and poor receive benefits. The basic qualification is simply to have paid into the programs and to be old.

Any increase in the marginal tax rate above $250K won’t go toward these programs anyway. It will go toward the general, discretionary budget.
But don’t stop listening to Glenn – the real thugs have a lot of power, but they still need your help.[/quote]

I actually don’t listen to Beck but I’m a conservative. You made some very nice points about where the spending is. My point is that regardless where the tax money is being spent, if we can’t afford it we must cut spending across the board.

And there’s no dispute that the left in this county has a Robin Hood philosophy.

[nocommonsense]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=nocommonsense]It’s this same “thug” logic that the communist countries used to rob the “rich” to give to the “poor”.[/quote]

Most government spending goes toward Social Security and Medicare. There is no means test to receive these – both the rich and poor receive benefits. The basic qualification is simply to have paid into the programs and to be old.

Any increase in the marginal tax rate above $250K won’t go toward these programs anyway. It will go toward the general, discretionary budget.
But don’t stop listening to Glenn – the real thugs have a lot of power, but they still need your help.[/quote]

I actually don’t listen to Beck but I’m a conservative. You made some very nice points about where the spending is. My point is that regardless where the tax money is being spent, if we can’t afford it we must cut spending across the board.

And there’s no dispute that the left in this county has a Robin Hood philosophy.

[nocommonsense]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=nocommonsense]It’s this same “thug” logic that the communist countries used to rob the “rich” to give to the “poor”.[/quote]

Most government spending goes toward Social Security and Medicare. There is no means test to receive these – both the rich and poor receive benefits. The basic qualification is simply to have paid into the programs and to be old.

Any increase in the marginal tax rate above $250K won’t go toward these programs anyway. It will go toward the general, discretionary budget.
But don’t stop listening to Glenn – the real thugs have a lot of power, but they still need your help.[/quote]

I actually don’t listen to Beck but I’m a conservative. You made some very nice points about where the spending is. My point is that regardless where the tax money is being spent, if we can’t afford it we must cut spending across the board.

And there’s no dispute that the left in this county has a Robin Hood philosophy.

[nocommonsense]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=nocommonsense]It’s this same “thug” logic that the communist countries used to rob the “rich” to give to the “poor”.[/quote]

Most government spending goes toward Social Security and Medicare. There is no means test to receive these – both the rich and poor receive benefits. The basic qualification is simply to have paid into the programs and to be old.

Any increase in the marginal tax rate above $250K won’t go toward these programs anyway. It will go toward the general, discretionary budget.
But don’t stop listening to Glenn – the real thugs have a lot of power, but they still need your help.[/quote]

I actually don’t listen to Beck but I’m a conservative. You made some very nice points about where the spending is. My point is that regardless where the tax money is being spent, if we can’t afford it we must cut spending across the board.

And there’s no dispute that the left in this county has a Robin Hood philosophy.

[nocommonsense]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=nocommonsense]It’s this same “thug” logic that the communist countries used to rob the “rich” to give to the “poor”.[/quote]

Most government spending goes toward Social Security and Medicare. There is no means test to receive these – both the rich and poor receive benefits. The basic qualification is simply to have paid into the programs and to be old.

Any increase in the marginal tax rate above $250K won’t go toward these programs anyway. It will go toward the general, discretionary budget.
But don’t stop listening to Glenn – the real thugs have a lot of power, but they still need your help.[/quote]

I actually don’t listen to Beck but I’m a conservative. You made some very nice points about where the spending is. My point is that regardless where the tax money is being spent, if we can’t afford it we must cut spending across the board.

And there’s no dispute that the left in this county has a Robin Hood philosophy.

[nocommonsense]

[quote=ltokuda]One major concern I have about the US economy is the trade imbalance we have with China. A large part of the problem is that China pegs its currecy to the US dollar to keep its currency artificially low and give it an “unfair” trade advantage. However, one weapon the US seems to have against this is the printing press. In order for China to maintain the currency advantage, they will have to continuously buy more US treasuries. So it seems like we can run up the debt and effectively “force” China to buy it. This lets us export much of the inflationary effects to them. I’m not completely sure but I think this might actually work in our favor.[/quote]

You’re likely correct, as China started to see rampant inflation as of a few weeks ago, with everyday food prices increasing as much as 20, 30 or even over 100%. It was all over the news there. China IS paying for the economic sins of the US.

[nocommonsense]

[quote=ltokuda]One major concern I have about the US economy is the trade imbalance we have with China. A large part of the problem is that China pegs its currecy to the US dollar to keep its currency artificially low and give it an “unfair” trade advantage. However, one weapon the US seems to have against this is the printing press. In order for China to maintain the currency advantage, they will have to continuously buy more US treasuries. So it seems like we can run up the debt and effectively “force” China to buy it. This lets us export much of the inflationary effects to them. I’m not completely sure but I think this might actually work in our favor.[/quote]

You’re likely correct, as China started to see rampant inflation as of a few weeks ago, with everyday food prices increasing as much as 20, 30 or even over 100%. It was all over the news there. China IS paying for the economic sins of the US.

[nocommonsense]

[quote=ltokuda]One major concern I have about the US economy is the trade imbalance we have with China. A large part of the problem is that China pegs its currecy to the US dollar to keep its currency artificially low and give it an “unfair” trade advantage. However, one weapon the US seems to have against this is the printing press. In order for China to maintain the currency advantage, they will have to continuously buy more US treasuries. So it seems like we can run up the debt and effectively “force” China to buy it. This lets us export much of the inflationary effects to them. I’m not completely sure but I think this might actually work in our favor.[/quote]

You’re likely correct, as China started to see rampant inflation as of a few weeks ago, with everyday food prices increasing as much as 20, 30 or even over 100%. It was all over the news there. China IS paying for the economic sins of the US.

[nocommonsense]

[quote=ltokuda]One major concern I have about the US economy is the trade imbalance we have with China. A large part of the problem is that China pegs its currecy to the US dollar to keep its currency artificially low and give it an “unfair” trade advantage. However, one weapon the US seems to have against this is the printing press. In order for China to maintain the currency advantage, they will have to continuously buy more US treasuries. So it seems like we can run up the debt and effectively “force” China to buy it. This lets us export much of the inflationary effects to them. I’m not completely sure but I think this might actually work in our favor.[/quote]

You’re likely correct, as China started to see rampant inflation as of a few weeks ago, with everyday food prices increasing as much as 20, 30 or even over 100%. It was all over the news there. China IS paying for the economic sins of the US.

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