OT: Safety is an Illusion

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]From Morgan Freeman on the Sandy Hook Tragedy

“You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here’s why.

It’s because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he’ll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN’s article says that if the body count “holds up”, this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer’s face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer’s identity? None that I’ve seen yet. Because they don’t sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you’ve just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man’s name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news.”[/quote]

Ding, ding, ding!!!!

All too often, these are people who are desperate for attention, and what better way to get attention than to kill innocent people, especially children. We need to stop making these stories bigger than they really are. Not trying to minimize it, but many more people die in car accidents **every day,** and they are missed every bit as much as those who die in high-profile homicide cases. We need to stop sensationalizing mass murders.

Top this off with our insane glorification of violence and the lack of empathy spawned by extremely violent video games and movies — especially when viewed/played by young people whose minds are still developing — and it’s easy to see how these violent episodes happen. I’d also suggest that the overuse of technology, as opposed to having more person-to-person contact, is leading to young people who are less and less empathetic as time goes by.

IMHO, it is the lack of empathy, which some would call a mental illness, that is responsible for these violent attacks. This is what we need to address.

—————–

As for gun deaths in the U.S., we’re #1 in gun ownership, but other countries, some with much stricter gun laws, they have much higher gun homicide rates. FWIW, most gun deaths in this country are suicide-related.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

For drug overdose death rates:

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/rxbrief/

[CA renter]

Interesting article about prescription drugs:

“While most major causes of preventable death are declining, drugs are an exception. The death toll has doubled in the last decade, now claiming a life every 14 minutes. By contrast, traffic accidents have been dropping for decades because of huge investments in auto safety.

Public health experts have used the comparison to draw attention to the nation’s growing prescription drug problem, which they characterize as an epidemic. This is the first time that drugs have accounted for more fatalities than traffic accidents since the government started tracking drug-induced deaths in 1979.

Fueling the surge in deaths are prescription pain and anxiety drugs that are potent, highly addictive and especially dangerous when combined with one another or with other drugs or alcohol. Among the most commonly abused are OxyContin, Vicodin, Xanax and Soma. One relative newcomer to the scene is Fentanyl, a painkiller that comes in the form of patches and lollipops and is 100 times more powerful than morphine.

Such drugs now cause more deaths than heroin and cocaine combined.”

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/17/local/la-me-drugs-epidemic-20110918

Marijuana, OTOH, has caused no known deaths.

If we really wanted to save lives, we’d outlaw many of these prescription drugs and make marijuana legal. It would probably help people who are prone to violence, too.
————-

The bottom line is that we have to stop glorifying violence, rednecks, gang culture, etc. and start encouraging people to have more personal contact with others instead of texting (or blogging!) all day long. We also need to have a comprehensive plan for dealing with mentally ill people. Putting them out on the streets is not the answer.

[SK in CV]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=SK in CV]Wouldn’t it be nice if there was something….anything…that could be done to reduce the likelihood of these kinds of events happening. I can’t imagine what it might be. But whatever it might be, we can’t ever dare mention the elephant in the room.[/quote]

SK: I’m presuming you mean gun control? How would a gun ban have prevented this? The .223 Bushmaster he used was a pre-ban weapon acquired legally in 1993.

Metro cities like NYC and Chicago that have extremely stringent gun laws still unfortunately have high rates of gun violence (because the criminal element is acquiring the guns elsewhere.). Which would mean a nationwide ban on ALL guns, which I’m guessing is that proverbial elephant in the room.[/quote]

I think there is something between what we have now and a nationwide ban on all guns. The fact that it may have been acquired legally is the point. Is there a good reason why that particular gun is legal?

I do understand the inherent problems in gun control. Make them (or some of them) illegal, and only criminals have them. This gun was owned by a non-criminal. If it was illegal to own, would she have owned it? I’ve seen no evidence that she was a criminal. (Though there have been some allusions that she may have been a bit whacked.)

I am somewhat sympathetic to the RKBA arguments. In theory anyway. Though many seem hollow, inconsistent, and often hypocritical.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

SK: I’ll need to verify this, but the DailyKos article beatrix cited indicated that the Bushmaster rifle was in the car at the time of the shooting, which means the shootings were carried out with a Glock and Sig-Sauer semi-automatic pistol.

My point is this: The Bushmaster would have been banned under the Clinton-era legislation, but the pistols wouldn’t (they would, however, have been limited to 10rd magazines). As a former soldier, SK, you’re well aware of how much damage you can inflict with a handgun and how quickly magazines can be exchanged, even reduced capacity 10rd magazines.

For that matter, a 12ga pump shotgun is an equally devastating weapon close-in. You can walk into Big5 and buy a Mossberg or Remington over the counter.

You don’t need a Bushmaster, or an AK, to commit this kind of horrific act, which leaves you with a complete gun ban as the answer.

[Coronita]

There is no answer to this problem.. Unless you outright ban guns, someone is always gonna find a way around rules or bend them to get a gun.

What happened in conn, you have to ask how the son (which was already diagnosed with something that probably indicated he was a pseudo-sociopath) had a gun, that apparently the mother bought for him.

Question #1: why did the mother need to buy the gun for the son to begin with? (Me thinks because probably the son couldn’t get one himself).

Question #2: what sane parent would buy a kid with a pseudo-sociopath diagnosis a gun (unless the parent was in denial).

My personal opinion? The mother was 100% to blame.Well maybe not 100% (but close to it)…

Anyone who buys a gun for someone else is just asking for it..

And there lies the problem….In order for this not to happen, people with the ability to purchase guns for someone else has to be capable of exercising good judgement….A lot of people don’t have that..No amount of legislation, or background check, or regulation is gonna “fix” this issue…unless we outright ban guns.

So we either live an a country with no guns, or we live with the consequences that things like this will always happen. Anything else in between ain’t gonna work…

Pick your poison pill.

[SK in CV]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]SK: I’ll need to verify this, but the DailyKos article beatrix cited indicated that the Bushmaster rifle was in the car at the time of the shooting, which means the shootings were carried out with a Glock and Sig-Sauer semi-automatic pistol.

My point is this: The Bushmaster would have been banned under the Clinton-era legislation, but the pistols wouldn’t (they would, however, have been limited to 10rd magazines). As a former soldier, SK, you’re well aware of how much damage you can inflict with a handgun and how quickly magazines can be exchanged, even reduced capacity 10rd magazines.

For that matter, a 12ga pump shotgun is an equally devastating weapon close-in. You can walk into Big5 and buy a Mossberg or Remington over the counter.

You don’t need a Bushmaster, or an AK, to commit this kind of horrific act, which leaves you with a complete gun ban as the answer.[/quote]

I was watching the news much of the day on Friday, and heard that same thing repeated during the day, that the Bushmaster was found in the car. But the ME said that every body he autopsied was shot by the long gun. (I saw the interview, it wasn’t someone reporting that he said it.) And all slugs recovered from all the victims were all .223s. All with more than a single wound, the 7 he performed, all had 3-11 slugs.

Use of legal pistols only may not have prevented it from happening. But it may have reduced the number of casualties.

[paramount]

[quote=CA renter] We also need to have a comprehensive plan for dealing with mentally ill people. Putting them out on the streets is not the answer.[/quote]

I agree, the other thing that comes to mind is that not all mentally ill are or will be criminals.

[mike92104]

The problem with the gun control argument is the assumption that a person willing to carry out such horrific acts would care whether the gun was legal or not.

[SK in CV]

[quote=mike92104]The problem with the gun control argument is the assumption that a person willing to carry out such horrific acts would care whether the gun was legal or not.[/quote]

Well that pretty much sums it up. Criminals don’t obey laws. Therefore, don’t make laws.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

SK: I agree that pistols only would likely have reduced the number of casualties. The Bushmaster is a semi-auto version of the M-16/M-4 and generally feeds from a 30rd magazine. We were taught to fire semi-auto, for accuracy and control, and you can put a lot of .223 out, even in semi-auto. It’s a nasty round, no doubt about it and designed for the single purpose of creating an inoperable wound channel.

That said, I remain torn on gun control for assault rifles. I recently attended an Active Shooter scenario in downtown San Francisco. The SFPD SWAT team had fully auto M-4s, concussion grenades and looked virtually indistinguishable from a full-blown military unit. One of them joked about “shock and awe” following their breaching maneuver and I remembered thinking that we live in a different world now and that I mistrust my government now more than ever.

Perhaps this sounds overly paranoid to you, but the thought of voluntarily disarming myself in the face of ever-increasing government intrusion and control just doesn’t seem like a good idea.

[SK in CV]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Perhaps this sounds overly paranoid to you, but the thought of voluntarily disarming myself in the face of ever-increasing government intrusion and control just doesn’t seem like a good idea.[/quote]

I totally get that part. I happen to fear government intrusion only slightly less than I fear those more paranoid than you, those accumulating both weapons and ammunition in anticipation of what they see as an inevitably necessary armed resurrection.

[flyer]

[quote=SK in CV][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Perhaps this sounds overly paranoid to you, but the thought of voluntarily disarming myself in the face of ever-increasing government intrusion and control just doesn’t seem like a good idea.[/quote]

I totally get that part. I happen to fear government intrusion only slightly less than I fear those more paranoid than you, those accumulating both weapons and ammunition in anticipation of what they see as an inevitably necessary armed resurrection.[/quote]

Personally, I think both opinions above represent valid concerns, but, sadly, I think far more insidious elements (debt, unemployment, etc., etc.) have, are, and will continue to destroy the quality of life for present and future generations to a far greater degree.

[ocrenter]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]SK: I agree that pistols only would likely have reduced the number of casualties. The Bushmaster is a semi-auto version of the M-16/M-4 and generally feeds from a 30rd magazine. We were taught to fire semi-auto, for accuracy and control, and you can put a lot of .223 out, even in semi-auto. It’s a nasty round, no doubt about it and designed for the single purpose of creating an inoperable wound channel.

That said, I remain torn on gun control for assault rifles. I recently attended an Active Shooter scenario in downtown San Francisco. The SFPD SWAT team had fully auto M-4s, concussion grenades and looked virtually indistinguishable from a full-blown military unit. One of them joked about “shock and awe” following their breaching maneuver and I remembered thinking that we live in a different world now and that I mistrust my government now more than ever.

Perhaps this sounds overly paranoid to you, but the thought of voluntarily disarming myself in the face of ever-increasing government intrusion and control just doesn’t seem like a good idea.[/quote]

To me, I simply can not envision any reason for the possession of semi-automatics other than to join the militia or something like that.

[spdrun]

Basically all pistols sold other than revolvers are semi-auto.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=spdrun]Basically all pistols sold other than revolvers are semi-auto.[/quote]

Spdrun: Um, yeah, not so much. A pistol is a pistol and a revolver is a revolver, and never the twain shall meet.

In terms of fully automatic handguns, I’d refer you to the Beretta 93R, along with similar offerings from Browning and Glock.

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