OT: Paying Kids For Grades in HS

[davelj]

I think the idea of paying for grades is built upon a false premise: that grades matter.

Lots of kids get good grades but don’t really learn. They just know how to game the system of tests. While that may get them into a “good” college, it is meaningless in the long term.

In the long term, what matters – and it can’t really be taught or coerced into a child – are two things: (1) the fundamental intellectual curiosity of the person (intellectually curious people figure out ways to learn about things – inside or outside of school), and (2) inner discipline (that is, a willingness to bear down and work, even when you’d rather not). If you’re not curious about the world and/or are unwilling to put in the work… your grades will get you nowhere.

My brother was a poor student in high school. He was very intellectually curious – read like a madman – but had no discipline for school. He ended up deciding on his own that he needed discipline and went to a military college where he did very well. Then on to a prominent law school and now he’s a federal prosecutor. My point is that his grades up until the time he graduated from high school sucked ass. But it all turned out pretty well in the end because he eventually figured out on his own that he needed to develop discipline.

In my opinion, focusing on grades is placing too much focus on the trees, as opposed to the forest.

[scaredyclassic]

sorry, no tv. that’s covered under a separate household rule.

i see that there has to be pain and pleasure mixed in. i figure the penalties can come along the way; do your homework today or [insert negative consequence] …

calendar outthe semester witha countdown toward tetsing/paper dates….

work with him to get things done…have a battle plan of what’s done when…

he’s an odd duck. don’t know that there’s a particular activity that would inspire him. he’s very resistant to punishment. We have a legendary family story where he was once given a “time out” in early elementary school and told to stand outside the door to the classroom outside. The teacher forgot about him and realized she hadn’t heard from him for sveeral hours. He was contentedly sitting on the floor watching ants. He would probably do better than the average person in solitary confienemnt, so normal deterrents may not work…

i agree with the unimportance of grades. and yet…school today is different than it was when we were growing up. the homework is punishingly, noxiously overbearing. it is much more like a job, much more like a factory. grades may not matter in any real sense, or even in how one “turns out”, but ont he other hand, society sees more punishing and less forgiving of all failures now than it used to.

plsu, just financially, good grades can serve to reduce future education costs. that seems to be worth something.

i mean, if yoou’re on the fence between an a and a B, and some money can push the kid to the A, is that actually damaging the kid?

why is it one exteme or the other? what if you’re a kid who’s curious, who’s naturally lazy, who’s fairly smart, whoc ould do well if pushed a bit, who’s liekly to be a middle class professional type at the end of the day whether he realizes it or not, whose family is supportive regardless but wouldn’t mind him going to a cheaper, better UC school…why not try to set up a system that tends to push him toward that? So that he can”figure it all out on is own”? maybe that’s the only way to do it. but clearly we don’t raise oour kids in such a way that they figure everything out ont heir own. we set up their whole lives basically to instill what we think is important in them and to get them to behave basically how we want.

[scaredyclassic]

sorry, no tv. that’s covered under a separate household rule.

i see that there has to be pain and pleasure mixed in. i figure the penalties can come along the way; do your homework today or [insert negative consequence] …

calendar outthe semester witha countdown toward tetsing/paper dates….

work with him to get things done…have a battle plan of what’s done when…

he’s an odd duck. don’t know that there’s a particular activity that would inspire him. he’s very resistant to punishment. We have a legendary family story where he was once given a “time out” in early elementary school and told to stand outside the door to the classroom outside. The teacher forgot about him and realized she hadn’t heard from him for sveeral hours. He was contentedly sitting on the floor watching ants. He would probably do better than the average person in solitary confienemnt, so normal deterrents may not work…

i agree with the unimportance of grades. and yet…school today is different than it was when we were growing up. the homework is punishingly, noxiously overbearing. it is much more like a job, much more like a factory. grades may not matter in any real sense, or even in how one “turns out”, but ont he other hand, society sees more punishing and less forgiving of all failures now than it used to.

plsu, just financially, good grades can serve to reduce future education costs. that seems to be worth something.

i mean, if yoou’re on the fence between an a and a B, and some money can push the kid to the A, is that actually damaging the kid?

why is it one exteme or the other? what if you’re a kid who’s curious, who’s naturally lazy, who’s fairly smart, whoc ould do well if pushed a bit, who’s liekly to be a middle class professional type at the end of the day whether he realizes it or not, whose family is supportive regardless but wouldn’t mind him going to a cheaper, better UC school…why not try to set up a system that tends to push him toward that? So that he can”figure it all out on is own”? maybe that’s the only way to do it. but clearly we don’t raise oour kids in such a way that they figure everything out ont heir own. we set up their whole lives basically to instill what we think is important in them and to get them to behave basically how we want.

[scaredyclassic]

sorry, no tv. that’s covered under a separate household rule.

i see that there has to be pain and pleasure mixed in. i figure the penalties can come along the way; do your homework today or [insert negative consequence] …

calendar outthe semester witha countdown toward tetsing/paper dates….

work with him to get things done…have a battle plan of what’s done when…

he’s an odd duck. don’t know that there’s a particular activity that would inspire him. he’s very resistant to punishment. We have a legendary family story where he was once given a “time out” in early elementary school and told to stand outside the door to the classroom outside. The teacher forgot about him and realized she hadn’t heard from him for sveeral hours. He was contentedly sitting on the floor watching ants. He would probably do better than the average person in solitary confienemnt, so normal deterrents may not work…

i agree with the unimportance of grades. and yet…school today is different than it was when we were growing up. the homework is punishingly, noxiously overbearing. it is much more like a job, much more like a factory. grades may not matter in any real sense, or even in how one “turns out”, but ont he other hand, society sees more punishing and less forgiving of all failures now than it used to.

plsu, just financially, good grades can serve to reduce future education costs. that seems to be worth something.

i mean, if yoou’re on the fence between an a and a B, and some money can push the kid to the A, is that actually damaging the kid?

why is it one exteme or the other? what if you’re a kid who’s curious, who’s naturally lazy, who’s fairly smart, whoc ould do well if pushed a bit, who’s liekly to be a middle class professional type at the end of the day whether he realizes it or not, whose family is supportive regardless but wouldn’t mind him going to a cheaper, better UC school…why not try to set up a system that tends to push him toward that? So that he can”figure it all out on is own”? maybe that’s the only way to do it. but clearly we don’t raise oour kids in such a way that they figure everything out ont heir own. we set up their whole lives basically to instill what we think is important in them and to get them to behave basically how we want.

[scaredyclassic]

sorry, no tv. that’s covered under a separate household rule.

i see that there has to be pain and pleasure mixed in. i figure the penalties can come along the way; do your homework today or [insert negative consequence] …

calendar outthe semester witha countdown toward tetsing/paper dates….

work with him to get things done…have a battle plan of what’s done when…

he’s an odd duck. don’t know that there’s a particular activity that would inspire him. he’s very resistant to punishment. We have a legendary family story where he was once given a “time out” in early elementary school and told to stand outside the door to the classroom outside. The teacher forgot about him and realized she hadn’t heard from him for sveeral hours. He was contentedly sitting on the floor watching ants. He would probably do better than the average person in solitary confienemnt, so normal deterrents may not work…

i agree with the unimportance of grades. and yet…school today is different than it was when we were growing up. the homework is punishingly, noxiously overbearing. it is much more like a job, much more like a factory. grades may not matter in any real sense, or even in how one “turns out”, but ont he other hand, society sees more punishing and less forgiving of all failures now than it used to.

plsu, just financially, good grades can serve to reduce future education costs. that seems to be worth something.

i mean, if yoou’re on the fence between an a and a B, and some money can push the kid to the A, is that actually damaging the kid?

why is it one exteme or the other? what if you’re a kid who’s curious, who’s naturally lazy, who’s fairly smart, whoc ould do well if pushed a bit, who’s liekly to be a middle class professional type at the end of the day whether he realizes it or not, whose family is supportive regardless but wouldn’t mind him going to a cheaper, better UC school…why not try to set up a system that tends to push him toward that? So that he can”figure it all out on is own”? maybe that’s the only way to do it. but clearly we don’t raise oour kids in such a way that they figure everything out ont heir own. we set up their whole lives basically to instill what we think is important in them and to get them to behave basically how we want.

[scaredyclassic]

sorry, no tv. that’s covered under a separate household rule.

i see that there has to be pain and pleasure mixed in. i figure the penalties can come along the way; do your homework today or [insert negative consequence] …

calendar outthe semester witha countdown toward tetsing/paper dates….

work with him to get things done…have a battle plan of what’s done when…

he’s an odd duck. don’t know that there’s a particular activity that would inspire him. he’s very resistant to punishment. We have a legendary family story where he was once given a “time out” in early elementary school and told to stand outside the door to the classroom outside. The teacher forgot about him and realized she hadn’t heard from him for sveeral hours. He was contentedly sitting on the floor watching ants. He would probably do better than the average person in solitary confienemnt, so normal deterrents may not work…

i agree with the unimportance of grades. and yet…school today is different than it was when we were growing up. the homework is punishingly, noxiously overbearing. it is much more like a job, much more like a factory. grades may not matter in any real sense, or even in how one “turns out”, but ont he other hand, society sees more punishing and less forgiving of all failures now than it used to.

plsu, just financially, good grades can serve to reduce future education costs. that seems to be worth something.

i mean, if yoou’re on the fence between an a and a B, and some money can push the kid to the A, is that actually damaging the kid?

why is it one exteme or the other? what if you’re a kid who’s curious, who’s naturally lazy, who’s fairly smart, whoc ould do well if pushed a bit, who’s liekly to be a middle class professional type at the end of the day whether he realizes it or not, whose family is supportive regardless but wouldn’t mind him going to a cheaper, better UC school…why not try to set up a system that tends to push him toward that? So that he can”figure it all out on is own”? maybe that’s the only way to do it. but clearly we don’t raise oour kids in such a way that they figure everything out ont heir own. we set up their whole lives basically to instill what we think is important in them and to get them to behave basically how we want.

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredycat]he’s an odd duck. don’t know that there’s a particular activity that would inspire him. he’s very resistant to punishment. We have a legendary family story where he was once given a “time out” in early elementary school and told to stand outside the door to the classroom outside. The teacher forgot about him and realized she hadn’t heard from him for sveeral hours. He was contentedly sitting on the floor watching ants. He would probably do better than the average person in solitary confienemnt, so normal deterrents may not work…[/quote]

You mention he stays home a lot. What does he do? You mention he likes to read a lot. What does he read? What does he talk about? What does he and his friend like to do?

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredycat]he’s an odd duck. don’t know that there’s a particular activity that would inspire him. he’s very resistant to punishment. We have a legendary family story where he was once given a “time out” in early elementary school and told to stand outside the door to the classroom outside. The teacher forgot about him and realized she hadn’t heard from him for sveeral hours. He was contentedly sitting on the floor watching ants. He would probably do better than the average person in solitary confienemnt, so normal deterrents may not work…[/quote]

You mention he stays home a lot. What does he do? You mention he likes to read a lot. What does he read? What does he talk about? What does he and his friend like to do?

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredycat]he’s an odd duck. don’t know that there’s a particular activity that would inspire him. he’s very resistant to punishment. We have a legendary family story where he was once given a “time out” in early elementary school and told to stand outside the door to the classroom outside. The teacher forgot about him and realized she hadn’t heard from him for sveeral hours. He was contentedly sitting on the floor watching ants. He would probably do better than the average person in solitary confienemnt, so normal deterrents may not work…[/quote]

You mention he stays home a lot. What does he do? You mention he likes to read a lot. What does he read? What does he talk about? What does he and his friend like to do?

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredycat]he’s an odd duck. don’t know that there’s a particular activity that would inspire him. he’s very resistant to punishment. We have a legendary family story where he was once given a “time out” in early elementary school and told to stand outside the door to the classroom outside. The teacher forgot about him and realized she hadn’t heard from him for sveeral hours. He was contentedly sitting on the floor watching ants. He would probably do better than the average person in solitary confienemnt, so normal deterrents may not work…[/quote]

You mention he stays home a lot. What does he do? You mention he likes to read a lot. What does he read? What does he talk about? What does he and his friend like to do?

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredycat]he’s an odd duck. don’t know that there’s a particular activity that would inspire him. he’s very resistant to punishment. We have a legendary family story where he was once given a “time out” in early elementary school and told to stand outside the door to the classroom outside. The teacher forgot about him and realized she hadn’t heard from him for sveeral hours. He was contentedly sitting on the floor watching ants. He would probably do better than the average person in solitary confienemnt, so normal deterrents may not work…[/quote]

You mention he stays home a lot. What does he do? You mention he likes to read a lot. What does he read? What does he talk about? What does he and his friend like to do?

[sdduuuude]

My favorite topic but I’m late to the party.
Lots of good thoughts in there.

I have no issues with the idea of paying for grades, but I’m not sure it is going to work.

If you have a kid who has been given allowance his whole life and makes his own decisions about money and understands the value of money (i.e. he isn’t coming to mom and dad every time he needs something), then it might work, but I’d be surprised if such a kid had trouble with grades anyway.

If you have a kid who isn’t used to handling his own money and he has to ask his parents to buy them things, then the pay-for-grades concept isn’t going to work because they will have no clue what $1000 means.

I say give him a chance to succeed on his own first, without the incentive. If he is struggling, try to understand why and react accordingly. I think it is better for him to get self-motivated A’s and B’s than cash-motivated A’s only.

I’d suggest not paying for grades the first year. See how the grades are to start with. Maybe he’ll be a scholastic star and you will have more concerns about his social skills. In that case, Temecula’s idea of giving rewards that are based on socializing is especially good.

For the first year of HS, avoid buying stuff other than food and basic clothes for him, give an allowance based on housework and see what he spends the money on. Once you give your kids the freedom to buy stuff with their own money, you learn quickly what they love (maybe ant farms ?) and then you either can use those things as incentive, or additional money.

Commincation by you to understand what motivates him is the key. Sounds like you don’t really know, which is OK, but taking time to find out will serve you better than assuming cash will do the trick.

[sdduuuude]

My favorite topic but I’m late to the party.
Lots of good thoughts in there.

I have no issues with the idea of paying for grades, but I’m not sure it is going to work.

If you have a kid who has been given allowance his whole life and makes his own decisions about money and understands the value of money (i.e. he isn’t coming to mom and dad every time he needs something), then it might work, but I’d be surprised if such a kid had trouble with grades anyway.

If you have a kid who isn’t used to handling his own money and he has to ask his parents to buy them things, then the pay-for-grades concept isn’t going to work because they will have no clue what $1000 means.

I say give him a chance to succeed on his own first, without the incentive. If he is struggling, try to understand why and react accordingly. I think it is better for him to get self-motivated A’s and B’s than cash-motivated A’s only.

I’d suggest not paying for grades the first year. See how the grades are to start with. Maybe he’ll be a scholastic star and you will have more concerns about his social skills. In that case, Temecula’s idea of giving rewards that are based on socializing is especially good.

For the first year of HS, avoid buying stuff other than food and basic clothes for him, give an allowance based on housework and see what he spends the money on. Once you give your kids the freedom to buy stuff with their own money, you learn quickly what they love (maybe ant farms ?) and then you either can use those things as incentive, or additional money.

Commincation by you to understand what motivates him is the key. Sounds like you don’t really know, which is OK, but taking time to find out will serve you better than assuming cash will do the trick.

[sdduuuude]

My favorite topic but I’m late to the party.
Lots of good thoughts in there.

I have no issues with the idea of paying for grades, but I’m not sure it is going to work.

If you have a kid who has been given allowance his whole life and makes his own decisions about money and understands the value of money (i.e. he isn’t coming to mom and dad every time he needs something), then it might work, but I’d be surprised if such a kid had trouble with grades anyway.

If you have a kid who isn’t used to handling his own money and he has to ask his parents to buy them things, then the pay-for-grades concept isn’t going to work because they will have no clue what $1000 means.

I say give him a chance to succeed on his own first, without the incentive. If he is struggling, try to understand why and react accordingly. I think it is better for him to get self-motivated A’s and B’s than cash-motivated A’s only.

I’d suggest not paying for grades the first year. See how the grades are to start with. Maybe he’ll be a scholastic star and you will have more concerns about his social skills. In that case, Temecula’s idea of giving rewards that are based on socializing is especially good.

For the first year of HS, avoid buying stuff other than food and basic clothes for him, give an allowance based on housework and see what he spends the money on. Once you give your kids the freedom to buy stuff with their own money, you learn quickly what they love (maybe ant farms ?) and then you either can use those things as incentive, or additional money.

Commincation by you to understand what motivates him is the key. Sounds like you don’t really know, which is OK, but taking time to find out will serve you better than assuming cash will do the trick.

[sdduuuude]

My favorite topic but I’m late to the party.
Lots of good thoughts in there.

I have no issues with the idea of paying for grades, but I’m not sure it is going to work.

If you have a kid who has been given allowance his whole life and makes his own decisions about money and understands the value of money (i.e. he isn’t coming to mom and dad every time he needs something), then it might work, but I’d be surprised if such a kid had trouble with grades anyway.

If you have a kid who isn’t used to handling his own money and he has to ask his parents to buy them things, then the pay-for-grades concept isn’t going to work because they will have no clue what $1000 means.

I say give him a chance to succeed on his own first, without the incentive. If he is struggling, try to understand why and react accordingly. I think it is better for him to get self-motivated A’s and B’s than cash-motivated A’s only.

I’d suggest not paying for grades the first year. See how the grades are to start with. Maybe he’ll be a scholastic star and you will have more concerns about his social skills. In that case, Temecula’s idea of giving rewards that are based on socializing is especially good.

For the first year of HS, avoid buying stuff other than food and basic clothes for him, give an allowance based on housework and see what he spends the money on. Once you give your kids the freedom to buy stuff with their own money, you learn quickly what they love (maybe ant farms ?) and then you either can use those things as incentive, or additional money.

Commincation by you to understand what motivates him is the key. Sounds like you don’t really know, which is OK, but taking time to find out will serve you better than assuming cash will do the trick.

[Author]

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