OT: parenting and the santa barbara shooter

[Jazzman]

I don’t think “will” or lack of it has anything to do with mass slayings. If anything, the reserve could be argued. Hitler an Stalin spring to mind. Many simple cultures don’t exercise “will” in the cultural sense referred to, and yet don’t suffer the same cultural ills. I also don’t believe making guns too expensive would be a practical solution. You may as well just ban guns, if you are going to do that. The focus should be on an immediate solution to prevent callous killings. Gun control is as clear cut as any solution to address that problem. Apparently, 90% of Americans believe that to be the case. Yet, the legislation that was to bring about greater gun control failed. So whatever you think is the problem or likely solution, you are possibly going to be denied the means do deal with it, if your detractors are more powerful than you. I think that is a concern and needs to be addressed before philosophizing.

[flyer]

IMO, whether it’s “mental illness,” the bursting of the “entitle mentality” illusion, “narcissism,” “bad parenting,” or any other “cause,” what I find sad and disgusting in all of these cases is, that many of these people choose to share their misery with other innocent people by destroying or trying to them.

If they can’t get help, don’t respond to it, or simply don’t want it, it’s unfortunate that the “miserable” can’t seem to keep their misery to themselves and leave everyone else alone.

[Jazzman]

[quote=flyer] it’s unfortunate that the “miserable” can’t seem to keep their misery to themselves and leave everyone else alone.[/quote]

Yes, I agree but that is so hard to do when you need to interact with people everyday. But regardless, I didn’t get the sense this kid was miserable. He came across as confidently revelling in mimicking Hollywood and console game violence. They obviously leave an impression and affect behavior. That aside, the focus should be on an immediate solution. Someone referred to will power as being a useful mental construct to counter balance mental instability. It seems a pity that that same “will” is not being applied to an immediate and practical solution. I don’t think now is the time to be looking too deeply into the psychological underpinnings.

[Jazzman]

[quote=spdrun]Gun ownership is also driven by fear. Fear that you might be burgled by an axe murderer (or whatever). Look at the stats. States with loose gun laws and little crime (northern New England for example) have lower rates of ownership than higher-crime states.

If I lived in an area where I felt I needed to carry a gun on my hip to protect myself whenever I went out, I’m pretty sure that I’d move. Not worth the stress.[/quote]
Not worth the stress of everything that follows: manslaughter charges, death threats, and your own coming to terms with taking a life either. Why don’t people who really need to carry a gun, carry a taser?

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=flyer]IMO, whether it’s “mental illness,” the bursting of the “entitle mentality” illusion, “narcissism,” “bad parenting,” or any other “cause,” what I find sad and disgusting in all of these cases is, that many of these people choose to share their misery with other innocent people by destroying or trying to them.

If they can’t get help, don’t respond to it, or simply don’t want it, it’s unfortunate that the “miserable” can’t seem to keep their misery to themselves and leave everyone else alone.[/quote]

We are social creatures who seek to find our place in the pecking order by status, dominance and getting hot babes.

Hell …we are barely civil in the forum sometimes!!!

[Jazzman]

[quote=FlyerInHi]

Access to guns, the glorification of shooting and killing, the general culture of violence, the celebrity status given to mass shooters enabled and incentivized Elliot Rodgers.[/quote]

All very true. How do you deal with it?

Democracy died the day gun control legislation failed. You can turn the other way, and accept that we live in democracy in ‘name only’, and tolerate the pervasive influence special interest groups enjoys over the democratic process. But that seems so counter to the spirit of the 2nd Amendment, the interpretation of which is contentious, and which creates this contradictory conundrum. Armed uprising against dysfunctional government, which endorses its own overthrow by allowing itself to be dysfunctional. :/ Something like that???

Going after Hollywood and censoring violence would probably be a bigger waste of time than going after the NRA. Trying to understand the psychological causes of these mass killings in order to create early warning detections is going to be complicated, because not enough is understood about the problem. It’s also probably going to infringe upon civil liberties, and be very prone to error. There needs to be a more immediate and practical solution, that is free from the normal legislative processes. Something like a national referendum, with clear choices. Maybe we should invite Putin to conduct it.

[spdrun]

Are rampage killings something to actually worry about in the grand scheme of things? They’re dramatic when they happen, but you’re also more likely to slip in the bathtub and die than get killed by a crazed gunman.

Not a new phenomenon either — I recall it was called “going postal” in the 80s and 90s.

The solution? Stop giving the crazies free publicity. Yeah, they can still use the Internet to spread their poison, but a gentleman’s agreement among the mainstream media not to spend days publicizing their actions would go a long way to discourage copycats.

[flyer]

[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=flyer]IMO, whether it’s “mental illness,” the bursting of the “entitle mentality” illusion, “narcissism,” “bad parenting,” or any other “cause,” what I find sad and disgusting in all of these cases is, that many of these people choose to share their misery with other innocent people by destroying or trying to them.

If they can’t get help, don’t respond to it, or simply don’t want it, it’s unfortunate that the “miserable” can’t seem to keep their misery to themselves and leave everyone else alone.[/quote]

We are social creatures who seek to find our place in the pecking order by status, dominance and getting hot babes.

Hell …we are barely civil in the forum sometimes!!![/quote]

Granted, we are all instinctively motivated to get what we want in life, but most of us don’t blame others, or seek to destroy innocents, if things don’t work out the way we planned.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=flyer][quote=scaredyclassic][quote=flyer]IMO, whether it’s “mental illness,” the bursting of the “entitle mentality” illusion, “narcissism,” “bad parenting,” or any other “cause,” what I find sad and disgusting in all of these cases is, that many of these people choose to share their misery with other innocent people by destroying or trying to them.

If they can’t get help, don’t respond to it, or simply don’t want it, it’s unfortunate that the “miserable” can’t seem to keep their misery to themselves and leave everyone else alone.[/quote]

We are social creatures who seek to find our place in the pecking order by status, dominance and getting hot babes.

Hell …we are barely civil in the forum sometimes!!![/quote]

Granted, we are all instinctively motivated to get what we want in life, but most of us don’t blame others, or seek to destroy innocents, if things don’t work out the way we planned.[/quote

True, but most of us don’t believe or dost at the very bottom of the pecking order. Perhaps if we did we might be a bit more crazy desperate and mean

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=flyer][quote=scaredyclassic][quote=flyer]IMO, whether it’s “mental illness,” the bursting of the “entitle mentality” illusion, “narcissism,” “bad parenting,” or any other “cause,” what I find sad and disgusting in all of these cases is, that many of these people choose to share their misery with other innocent people by destroying or trying to them.

If they can’t get help, don’t respond to it, or simply don’t want it, it’s unfortunate that the “miserable” can’t seem to keep their misery to themselves and leave everyone else alone.[/quote]

We are social creatures who seek to find our place in the pecking order by status, dominance and getting hot babes.

Hell …we are barely civil in the forum sometimes!!![/quote]

Granted, we are all instinctively motivated to get what we want in life, but most of us don’t blame others, or seek to destroy innocents, if things don’t work out the way we planned.[/quote

True, but most of us don’t believe or dost at the very bottom of the pecking order. Perhaps if we did we might be a bit more crazy desperate and mean[/quote]

But this kid wasnt exactly at the bottom of the pecking order. Socially.. Or economically..

According to his manifesto. He murdered his roommates because he thought they were nerdie and they annoyed him.

Apparently he didnt think he was that lowly on the social ladder. He sure had a lot of contempt for his roommates

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=flu][quote=scaredyclassic][quote=flyer][quote=scaredyclassic][quote=flyer]IMO, whether it’s “mental illness,” the bursting of the “entitle mentality” illusion, “narcissism,” “bad parenting,” or any other “cause,” what I find sad and disgusting in all of these cases is, that many of these people choose to share their misery with other innocent people by destroying or trying to them.

If they can’t get help, don’t respond to it, or simply don’t want it, it’s unfortunate that the “miserable” can’t seem to keep their misery to themselves and leave everyone else alone.[/quote]

He was hanging off the bottom of the bottom of the pecking order.

We are social creatures who seek to find our place in the pecking order by status, dominance and getting hot babes.

Hell …we are barely civil in the forum sometimes!!![/quote]

Granted, we are all instinctively motivated to get what we want in life, but most of us don’t blame others, or seek to destroy innocents, if things don’t work out the way we planned.[/quote

True, but most of us don’t believe or dost at the very bottom of the pecking order. Perhaps if we did we might be a bit more crazy desperate and mean[/quote]

But this kid wasnt exactly at the bottom of the pecking order. Socially.. Or economically..

According to his manifesto. He murdered his roommates because he thought they were nerdie and they annoyed him.

Apparently he didnt think he was that lowly on the social ladder. He sure had a lot of contempt for his roommates[/quote]

He was contemptuous cut he was hanging off the bottom of the bottom of the pecking order of men. He couldn’t have been lower.

[NotCranky]

Kind of starting a new or additional theory, I wonder if this guy had been victim of sexual abuse or seen some pretty disturbing stuff to go with the divorce and possible neglect.

That someone is born a demon or something like that, that’s just fantasy, probably some holdover from religious myths about the devil or similar stories.
That doesn’t make me a denier of mental illness , just want to say that those accusation don’t do anything but short circuit logical investigation.

O.k. So I searched it, other people already made similar conjecture public in various venues. The guy had sexual issues enough to drive a lot of people crazy. A lot of people don’t like the questions at all.

[CA renter]

[quote=Blogstar]Kind of starting a new or additional theory, I wonder if this guy had been victim of sexual abuse or seen some pretty disturbing stuff to go with the divorce and possible neglect.

That someone is born a demon or something like that, that’s just fantasy, probably some holdover from religious myths about the devil or similar stories.
That doesn’t make me a denier of mental illness , just want to say that those accusation don’t do anything but short circuit logical investigation.

O.k. So I searched it, other people already made similar conjecture public in various venues. The guy had sexual issues enough to drive a lot of people crazy. A lot of people don’t like the questions at all.[/quote]

I’m 100% convinced that some people are born evil. I’ve personally seen it, at least once (a kid I knew; and he had a cousin, too, who tried to burn a baby when this toddler was two or three years old…the family believed it was probably genetic in nature), and heard about at least one other story. It’s a mental illness, probably schizophrenia in this case, so call it what you will, but this particular kid came across as pure evil.

[CA renter]

[quote=Jazzman]I don’t think “will” or lack of it has anything to do with mass slayings. If anything, the reserve could be argued. Hitler an Stalin spring to mind. Many simple cultures don’t exercise “will” in the cultural sense referred to, and yet don’t suffer the same cultural ills. I also don’t believe making guns too expensive would be a practical solution. You may as well just ban guns, if you are going to do that. The focus should be on an immediate solution to prevent callous killings. Gun control is as clear cut as any solution to address that problem. Apparently, 90% of Americans believe that to be the case. Yet, the legislation that was to bring about greater gun control failed. So whatever you think is the problem or likely solution, you are possibly going to be denied the means do deal with it, if your detractors are more powerful than you. I think that is a concern and needs to be addressed before philosophizing.[/quote]

How do you suggest we protect the potential innocent victims as you try to cleanse the streets of guns?

And what do you do about all of the criminals who will simply use different tools and devices to kill? Surely, you’re not naive enough to think that removing guns from a murderer’s possession will cause him to stop murdering, do you?

And if guns are the problem, why don’t we hear about mass shootings like this at NRA conventions, hunting events, or other places and events where most people are armed? It’s always in the “gun-free” zones.

[CA renter]

For the gun ban proponents, how do you address the fact that the most of the serial killers with the highest death counts and the most dangerous mass murderers didn’t use guns?

1. Of serial killers, only two of the top 13 (Wournous and Son of Sam) used guns consistently. Almost all of them used other methods (strangulation, stabbing, drowning, drugging).

http://www.ranker.com/list/serial-killers-from-jack-the-ripper-to-charles-manson/theothermother?format=SLIDESHOW&page=1

2. Worst mass murder in a school? Bombs/explosives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

3. Calgary’s worst mass killing (stabbing):

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/04/15/calgary-worst-mass-murder_n_5154950.html

4. And the worst mass murder event in U.S. history? Airplanes (911). This is followed, I believe, by the Oklahoma City bombing.

————-

So, how in the world can anybody say, with a straight face, that if you got rid of guns, you’d stop murderous rampages?

[Author]

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