OT: parenting and the santa barbara shooter

[CA renter]

[quote=flu][quote=FlyerInHi]I use economic principles.

Make guns 100 times more expensive and you still would not violate the second amendment and there will be less shootings, period.

Raise the price if gas and people will drive less. Simple.

There are levers you can pull to achieve aggregate behavior change.[/quote]

I got a better solution. In this particular case…

Ban knives and BMW’s…Or raise prices so knives and BMW’s are incredibly expensive….I’m sure that would be as effective too…

Might also want to ban gasoline and fertilizer too….[/quote]

And pressure cookers and nails…airplanes, too.

——–

Brian,

You might want to ask the millions of people (or tens of thousands, even by the most conservative measures) who use guns in self defense every year how they feel about gun bans. You might think they aren’t useful, but millions of people strongly disagree with your naive assumption.

[Coronita]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=flu]
I got a better solution. In this particular case…

Ban knives and BMW’s…Or raise prices so knives and BMW’s are incredibly expensive….I’m sure that would be as effective too…

Might also want to ban gasoline and fertilizer too….[/quote]

You’re being facetious.

There’s a balance to everything. We don’t want to do any of that because car sales are good for business and the economy. Cars pollute and kill but we want convenience and transportation. We need knives in the kitchen.

Making guns very expensive and inconvenient to own would hardly affect our day to day lives. Also back in the 18th century, when the second amendment was adopted, guns represented a huge portion of owners’ networth. Making guns ultra expensive today would be very proportionate to their value back in the 18th century.

We can achieve lower gun deaths if we want to.[/quote]

Great, so only rich(er) people can own guns…

Wealth inequality now becomes gun inequality…

Sounds like a winning plan…Fine by me..

[Hobie]

Remember it was cops with guns that limited this rampage to 10min. I don’t recall any of these type of shooting occurring in open carry states. Hmm.

[spdrun]

Making guns very expensive and inconvenient to own would hardly affect our day to day lives.

Exactly. This is why I really don’t get people who say “I’m moving from {x state} to {y state} because their gun laws are better.” As if being able to own a 15-round magazine improves your life in any way, unless you’re a gun collector, gunsmith, or hunter. Scratch the last one — if you need a 15-round magazine for hunting, you probably need to practice your aim.

[joec]

[quote=Hobie]Remember it was cops with guns that limited this rampage to 10min. I don’t recall any of these type of shooting occurring in open carry states. Hmm.[/quote]

I’d be curious if more data was gathered/available on this as well…I used to be (maybe 15 years ago) completely anti-gun and have since changed my view. A lot of these shooters seem to get a “high” finally being able to shoot people and feel stronger, bigger than people without guns.

If everyone was packing, it’d probably end with < 5 deaths and much less injured...Would like to see more data though since it's been recently reported gun violence is down in general so maybe it's just all the media coverage now. The idea of raising gun prices is just ludicrous an impossible...The market determines the price and having a government tax/"just raise prices" sounds stupid. About debating in a forum on the "Internet", I've noticed it's not to debate, it's to come and confirm what you think/feel already. I figured everyone knew that already. 🙂 No one is going to change anyone's mind. 😉

[spdrun]

Seven people died. Himself, three roommates (where a gun wouldn’t likely have helped, most people aren’t packing around the house and on guard against a roommate whom they trust), and three passers-by on the street. Sounds like he was taken down pretty quickly. Unless, literally EVERYONE was carrying a gun, not sure if he could have been stopped any more quickly.

How would you make sure that everyone would carry? I for one wouldn’t be interested in carrying a heavy metal object everywhere I go. Would it be mandatory to be armed outside the house? If something like that ever happens, I think I’m dusting off my passport and moving abroad 🙂

Especially because a lot of people in modern society have anger/frustration issues. Requiring them to carry an easy, impersonal way to hurt another person is a recipe for busy emergency rooms.

[no_such_reality]

Not too minor nit but the three male roommates were stabbed to death

[spdrun]

Exactly. Unless they were walking around the house armed with a gun, it’s unlikely a gun would have helped them.

[scaredyclassic]

Moving away from pistols and toward picking up chicks, the pickup artist community is undercattack. They actually have sound advice for engaging women, which Rodger ignored. Not sure if this incident will gain more PUA advocates or negatively affect them.

[no_such_reality]

[quote=spdrun]Exactly. Unless they were walking around the house armed with a gun, it’s unlikely a gun would have helped them.[/quote]

The gun debate is a useless gross simplification applied to an unrelated scenario

This is a mental health issue.

Guns, knives, bombs, powder in envelopes, even poison or cars the tool isn’t the problem

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredyclassic]Moving away from pistols and toward picking up chicks, the pickup artist community is undercattack. They actually have sound advice for engaging women, which Rodger ignored. Not sure if this incident will gain more PUA advocates or negatively affect them.[/quote]

I’m sure we can come of with a government program to take care of that too, like we take care of everything else…

Something like “no man left behind?”

[spdrun]

NSR: Correct.

Though the presence of guns does make it easier for violence to happen in the heat of anger.

I’d rather the number of guns in a bar at 2 am after a Devils-Rangers game be kept to a minimum 🙂

You’d be trading a lot of shootings in anger for preventing an attack like Rodger’s. I bet that shootings in anger are still a LOT more common than something like what happened in Santa Barbara.

[spdrun]

I’m sure we can come of with a government program to take care of that too, like we take care of everything else…

There is one in Nevada. It’s called legal prostitution. Though I’m not sure if Elliot Rodger wasn’t too proud to avail himself of such pleasures.

[svelte]

[quote=CA renter]
As flu mentioned above, you seem to be missing the fact that 50% of the victims were STABBED to death.
[/quote]

If you’re gonna have a crazy approach you, which would have the crazy armed with – a gun or a knife?

It is easier to approach and disarm someone with a knife than with a gun. With a gun, you can be murdered from a distance with no opportunity to defend yourself.

I’m glad to see most people on here at least agreeing that this likely wasn’t a parenting problem as much as mental illness. As flu said, mental illness is hard to diagnose, and it’s even harder to determine which of the MI will snap. It’s just the way it is and always will be.

And of course this leads to the subject of guns.

The left and the right are very prone to making very broad statements to justify their positions.

The right: there should be no regulations on guns because of the “right to bear arms” clause. Well okay, if that’s the way you’re going to interpret that, why aren’t you upset that normal citizens can’t possess nuclear weapons and land mines? They are certainly “arms”.

The left is just as guilty by equating “global warming” with carbon dioxide emissions. Not one and the same, and a broad overgeneralization. The earth has warmed and cooled repeatedly for many reasons almost all of which are not human derived.

[Coronita]

[quote=svelte][quote=CA renter]
As flu mentioned above, you seem to be missing the fact that 50% of the victims were STABBED to death.
[/quote]

If you’re gonna have a crazy approach you, which would have the crazy armed with – a gun or a knife?

It is easier to approach and disarm someone with a knife than with a gun. With a gun, you can be murdered from a distance with no opportunity to defend yourself.

I’m glad to see most people on here at least agreeing that this likely wasn’t a parenting problem as much as mental illness. As flu said, mental illness is hard to diagnose, and it’s even harder to determine which of the MI will snap. It’s just the way it is and always will be.

And of course this leads to the subject of guns.

The left and the right are very prone to making very broad statements to justify their positions.

The right: there should be no regulations on guns because of the “right to bear arms” clause. Well okay, if that’s the way you’re going to interpret that, why aren’t you upset that normal citizens can’t possess nuclear weapons and land mines? They are certainly “arms”.

The left is just as guilty by equating “global warming” with carbon dioxide emissions. Not one and the same, and a broad overgeneralization. The earth has warmed and cooled repeatedly for many reasons almost all of which are not human derived.[/quote]

I generally agree with some gun control laws, but in this particular case, if it wasn’t by a knife, he was going to use a gun or car, and if he wasn’t going to use a gun, he could have created an explosive device. We’ll never know because the sack if sheet is dead. But I’d say if a person is hell bent on creating carnage, as apparently he was, he wouldn’t have just stopped with a knife if guns weren’t available….

I’m not even sure what you really call whatever he had as “mental illness”. It’s very difficult to diagnose. And even if you do pass a background check at one point, things can and will happen to cause people to snap.

People are looking for ways to solve “this problem”…There isn’t a solution, if you believe americans should have the right to bear arms at all…

There’s no amount of legislation is going to fix this type of problem, unless you completely ban guns… In as much as no amount of legislation is going to prevent death on the road, unless you eliminate all cars..

Some people seem to take each gun violence as if there is some magic law or legislation that can be passed that could have prevented this…
And let’s face it, you have a lot of stupid and crazy people in america. And you can’t regulate stupidity and crazy, no matter how hard one tries…

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