OT: Paging Raybarnes or others in the know… Question about holdback allowance.

[paramount]

I firmly believe that BMW dealers make money on sales volume – they get a bonus based on sales #’s.

I heard a report tonight on the German economy on public radio; and now more than ever I truly believe that BMW’s and MB’s are the finest motor cars available to the average person/family.

[justme]

Why does anyone believe in “invoice prices” in the first place?
Or believe that invoice == real cost?

If you look at a big publicly traded traded auto dealership conglomerate, AutoNation (symbol AN), and look up their financials, you will see that for the last listed quarter their Gross margin was

% 425/3127
0.135913015669971

or 13.6%. Does it seem reasonable that car dealers have 13.6% gross profit at the same time as they are selling cars for little more than “invoice” in many cases?

An invoice may very well be an “invoice” of sorts, but I seriously doubt that it represents what the dealer really pays for the car.

[justme]

Why does anyone believe in “invoice prices” in the first place?
Or believe that invoice == real cost?

If you look at a big publicly traded traded auto dealership conglomerate, AutoNation (symbol AN), and look up their financials, you will see that for the last listed quarter their Gross margin was

% 425/3127
0.135913015669971

or 13.6%. Does it seem reasonable that car dealers have 13.6% gross profit at the same time as they are selling cars for little more than “invoice” in many cases?

An invoice may very well be an “invoice” of sorts, but I seriously doubt that it represents what the dealer really pays for the car.

[justme]

Why does anyone believe in “invoice prices” in the first place?
Or believe that invoice == real cost?

If you look at a big publicly traded traded auto dealership conglomerate, AutoNation (symbol AN), and look up their financials, you will see that for the last listed quarter their Gross margin was

% 425/3127
0.135913015669971

or 13.6%. Does it seem reasonable that car dealers have 13.6% gross profit at the same time as they are selling cars for little more than “invoice” in many cases?

An invoice may very well be an “invoice” of sorts, but I seriously doubt that it represents what the dealer really pays for the car.

[justme]

Why does anyone believe in “invoice prices” in the first place?
Or believe that invoice == real cost?

If you look at a big publicly traded traded auto dealership conglomerate, AutoNation (symbol AN), and look up their financials, you will see that for the last listed quarter their Gross margin was

% 425/3127
0.135913015669971

or 13.6%. Does it seem reasonable that car dealers have 13.6% gross profit at the same time as they are selling cars for little more than “invoice” in many cases?

An invoice may very well be an “invoice” of sorts, but I seriously doubt that it represents what the dealer really pays for the car.

[justme]

Why does anyone believe in “invoice prices” in the first place?
Or believe that invoice == real cost?

If you look at a big publicly traded traded auto dealership conglomerate, AutoNation (symbol AN), and look up their financials, you will see that for the last listed quarter their Gross margin was

% 425/3127
0.135913015669971

or 13.6%. Does it seem reasonable that car dealers have 13.6% gross profit at the same time as they are selling cars for little more than “invoice” in many cases?

An invoice may very well be an “invoice” of sorts, but I seriously doubt that it represents what the dealer really pays for the car.

[outtamojo]

[quote=justme]Why does anyone believe in “invoice prices” in the first place?
Or believe that invoice == real cost?

If you look at a big publicly traded traded auto dealership conglomerate, AutoNation (symbol AN), and look up their financials, you will see that for the last listed quarter their Gross margin was

% 425/3127
0.135913015669971

or 13.6%. Does it seem reasonable that car dealers have 13.6% gross profit at the same time as they are selling cars for little more than “invoice” in many cases?

An invoice may very well be an “invoice” of sorts, but I seriously doubt that it represents what the dealer really pays for the car.[/quote]

Not that I have numbers but I think you’d be amazed at how many folks get slam dunked at the dealerships.

[outtamojo]

[quote=justme]Why does anyone believe in “invoice prices” in the first place?
Or believe that invoice == real cost?

If you look at a big publicly traded traded auto dealership conglomerate, AutoNation (symbol AN), and look up their financials, you will see that for the last listed quarter their Gross margin was

% 425/3127
0.135913015669971

or 13.6%. Does it seem reasonable that car dealers have 13.6% gross profit at the same time as they are selling cars for little more than “invoice” in many cases?

An invoice may very well be an “invoice” of sorts, but I seriously doubt that it represents what the dealer really pays for the car.[/quote]

Not that I have numbers but I think you’d be amazed at how many folks get slam dunked at the dealerships.

[outtamojo]

[quote=justme]Why does anyone believe in “invoice prices” in the first place?
Or believe that invoice == real cost?

If you look at a big publicly traded traded auto dealership conglomerate, AutoNation (symbol AN), and look up their financials, you will see that for the last listed quarter their Gross margin was

% 425/3127
0.135913015669971

or 13.6%. Does it seem reasonable that car dealers have 13.6% gross profit at the same time as they are selling cars for little more than “invoice” in many cases?

An invoice may very well be an “invoice” of sorts, but I seriously doubt that it represents what the dealer really pays for the car.[/quote]

Not that I have numbers but I think you’d be amazed at how many folks get slam dunked at the dealerships.

[outtamojo]

[quote=justme]Why does anyone believe in “invoice prices” in the first place?
Or believe that invoice == real cost?

If you look at a big publicly traded traded auto dealership conglomerate, AutoNation (symbol AN), and look up their financials, you will see that for the last listed quarter their Gross margin was

% 425/3127
0.135913015669971

or 13.6%. Does it seem reasonable that car dealers have 13.6% gross profit at the same time as they are selling cars for little more than “invoice” in many cases?

An invoice may very well be an “invoice” of sorts, but I seriously doubt that it represents what the dealer really pays for the car.[/quote]

Not that I have numbers but I think you’d be amazed at how many folks get slam dunked at the dealerships.

[outtamojo]

[quote=justme]Why does anyone believe in “invoice prices” in the first place?
Or believe that invoice == real cost?

If you look at a big publicly traded traded auto dealership conglomerate, AutoNation (symbol AN), and look up their financials, you will see that for the last listed quarter their Gross margin was

% 425/3127
0.135913015669971

or 13.6%. Does it seem reasonable that car dealers have 13.6% gross profit at the same time as they are selling cars for little more than “invoice” in many cases?

An invoice may very well be an “invoice” of sorts, but I seriously doubt that it represents what the dealer really pays for the car.[/quote]

Not that I have numbers but I think you’d be amazed at how many folks get slam dunked at the dealerships.

[Coronita]

[quote=justme]Why does anyone believe in “invoice prices” in the first place?
Or believe that invoice == real cost?

If you look at a big publicly traded traded auto dealership conglomerate, AutoNation (symbol AN), and look up their financials, you will see that for the last listed quarter their Gross margin was

% 425/3127
0.135913015669971

or 13.6%. Does it seem reasonable that car dealers have 13.6% gross profit at the same time as they are selling cars for little more than “invoice” in many cases?

An invoice may very well be an “invoice” of sorts, but I seriously doubt that it represents what the dealer really pays for the car.[/quote]

Well, it depends….Some cars have rebates that push car prices well below what is “invoice”…Some cars had other hidden padding like holdbacks/such….

Also, several car purchases are financed, and while can be sold below invoice, the financing makes more then enough $$$ for the dealership….Also dealership makes money on service/support….

Since BMW isn’t offering a spring sales event (yet), and if no holdback, I’m just trying to figure out how low things can really go… On most places I asked, they weren’t able to move below $500 above invoice. This one in particular, however was able to do $100 below…The build date of the car was back in october, and since then the Manufacturer raised prices by $500 (so I’m told). I called all the S.D. dealers.Same car cost $1500 above invoice….I also called the costco purchase program..Dealer initially said $1000 above, but after back and forth they said they can do $500 above…..

Also, I guess the dealer I’m talking to wants to clear the inventory, plus I’m a repeat customer. So not sure…..I have a feeling there will be a Spring sales event in March, so maybe some games are being played here….

[Coronita]

[quote=justme]Why does anyone believe in “invoice prices” in the first place?
Or believe that invoice == real cost?

If you look at a big publicly traded traded auto dealership conglomerate, AutoNation (symbol AN), and look up their financials, you will see that for the last listed quarter their Gross margin was

% 425/3127
0.135913015669971

or 13.6%. Does it seem reasonable that car dealers have 13.6% gross profit at the same time as they are selling cars for little more than “invoice” in many cases?

An invoice may very well be an “invoice” of sorts, but I seriously doubt that it represents what the dealer really pays for the car.[/quote]

Well, it depends….Some cars have rebates that push car prices well below what is “invoice”…Some cars had other hidden padding like holdbacks/such….

Also, several car purchases are financed, and while can be sold below invoice, the financing makes more then enough $$$ for the dealership….Also dealership makes money on service/support….

Since BMW isn’t offering a spring sales event (yet), and if no holdback, I’m just trying to figure out how low things can really go… On most places I asked, they weren’t able to move below $500 above invoice. This one in particular, however was able to do $100 below…The build date of the car was back in october, and since then the Manufacturer raised prices by $500 (so I’m told). I called all the S.D. dealers.Same car cost $1500 above invoice….I also called the costco purchase program..Dealer initially said $1000 above, but after back and forth they said they can do $500 above…..

Also, I guess the dealer I’m talking to wants to clear the inventory, plus I’m a repeat customer. So not sure…..I have a feeling there will be a Spring sales event in March, so maybe some games are being played here….

[Coronita]

[quote=justme]Why does anyone believe in “invoice prices” in the first place?
Or believe that invoice == real cost?

If you look at a big publicly traded traded auto dealership conglomerate, AutoNation (symbol AN), and look up their financials, you will see that for the last listed quarter their Gross margin was

% 425/3127
0.135913015669971

or 13.6%. Does it seem reasonable that car dealers have 13.6% gross profit at the same time as they are selling cars for little more than “invoice” in many cases?

An invoice may very well be an “invoice” of sorts, but I seriously doubt that it represents what the dealer really pays for the car.[/quote]

Well, it depends….Some cars have rebates that push car prices well below what is “invoice”…Some cars had other hidden padding like holdbacks/such….

Also, several car purchases are financed, and while can be sold below invoice, the financing makes more then enough $$$ for the dealership….Also dealership makes money on service/support….

Since BMW isn’t offering a spring sales event (yet), and if no holdback, I’m just trying to figure out how low things can really go… On most places I asked, they weren’t able to move below $500 above invoice. This one in particular, however was able to do $100 below…The build date of the car was back in october, and since then the Manufacturer raised prices by $500 (so I’m told). I called all the S.D. dealers.Same car cost $1500 above invoice….I also called the costco purchase program..Dealer initially said $1000 above, but after back and forth they said they can do $500 above…..

Also, I guess the dealer I’m talking to wants to clear the inventory, plus I’m a repeat customer. So not sure…..I have a feeling there will be a Spring sales event in March, so maybe some games are being played here….

[Coronita]

[quote=justme]Why does anyone believe in “invoice prices” in the first place?
Or believe that invoice == real cost?

If you look at a big publicly traded traded auto dealership conglomerate, AutoNation (symbol AN), and look up their financials, you will see that for the last listed quarter their Gross margin was

% 425/3127
0.135913015669971

or 13.6%. Does it seem reasonable that car dealers have 13.6% gross profit at the same time as they are selling cars for little more than “invoice” in many cases?

An invoice may very well be an “invoice” of sorts, but I seriously doubt that it represents what the dealer really pays for the car.[/quote]

Well, it depends….Some cars have rebates that push car prices well below what is “invoice”…Some cars had other hidden padding like holdbacks/such….

Also, several car purchases are financed, and while can be sold below invoice, the financing makes more then enough $$$ for the dealership….Also dealership makes money on service/support….

Since BMW isn’t offering a spring sales event (yet), and if no holdback, I’m just trying to figure out how low things can really go… On most places I asked, they weren’t able to move below $500 above invoice. This one in particular, however was able to do $100 below…The build date of the car was back in october, and since then the Manufacturer raised prices by $500 (so I’m told). I called all the S.D. dealers.Same car cost $1500 above invoice….I also called the costco purchase program..Dealer initially said $1000 above, but after back and forth they said they can do $500 above…..

Also, I guess the dealer I’m talking to wants to clear the inventory, plus I’m a repeat customer. So not sure…..I have a feeling there will be a Spring sales event in March, so maybe some games are being played here….

[Author]

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